BC with Traffic offence CU80

balixonline wrote:Hello Learned ones I wonder if someone could help me please : )

I am intended to apply for BC and today tried making an appointment with local NCS but they refused because I have 3 points and fixed penalty of £75 on my license.

What happened was I was stopped holding mobile phone was driving despite of me not using the phone and was given FPN in Feb 2011. I challenged it in court but they did not take my argument into consideration and was convicted in Aug 2011 with £75fine and 3 points.

Now, NCS says I can not apply for BC?!!! is it true? Is there any way around it at all?

Hi

You made a big mistake to contest it in court. You would have no problem; had you not contested in court. But now as you have challenged it in court and lost your case; you'll have to wait till it is spent.

I have email confirmation from UKBA where they clearly say that they would ignore a FPN but if it is challenged in court and you are convicted then you'll have to wait untill it is spent.

Regards

Christianoronaldo wrote:

balixonline wrote:Hello Learned ones I wonder if someone could help me please : )

I am intended to apply for BC and today tried making an appointment with local NCS but they refused because I have 3 points and fixed penalty of £75 on my license.

What happened was I was stopped holding mobile phone was driving despite of me not using the phone and was given FPN in Feb 2011. I challenged it in court but they did not take my argument into consideration and was convicted in Aug 2011 with £75fine and 3 points.

Now, NCS says I can not apply for BC?!!! is it true? Is there any way around it at all?

Hi

You made a big mistake to contest it in court. You would have no problem; had you not contested in court. But now as you have challenged it in court and lost your case; you'll have to wait till it is spent.

I have email confirmation from UKBA where they clearly say that they would ignore a FPN but if it is challenged in court and you are convicted then you'll have to wait untill it is spent.

Regards

He does not have to wait until it has 'spent' at all, rather he must wait 3 years.

It was silly of me to contest it but I am still till this moment am confident it wasn't my mistake but what rather taken as fault. One thing I don't understand though.

I applied for ILR this march and as in all honesty I did not think of this as a conviction, I didn't write it and I received ILR within 6 weeks.

This time I thought of using NCS and this info came to me as a shock.

Is there an email address I can contact UKBA on to clarify the matters as Id like to write them some info if they were to take into consideration.

thanks

Unfortunately, the fact that you did not declare a conviction for ILR poses 2 issues, 1. the issue of deception and 2.the fact that a non-custodial conviction is a general grounds for refusal for 24 months. I assume you applied for ILR post August 2011. You now also may risk the revocation of your ILR.

D4109125 wrote:Unfortunately, the fact that you did not declare a conviction for ILR poses 2 issues, 1. the issue of deception and 2.the fact that a non-custodial conviction is a general grounds for refusal for 24 months. I assume you applied for ILR post August 2011. You now also may risk the revocation of your ILR.

Or it could mean this is not considered a criminal conviction for some reason or another. Not all the court cases get recorded in the PNC.

Did the offence of the OP happen in England & Wales or in any other part of the United Kingdom?

It may well not be on the PNC but that does not mean he does not have a conviction, if he was convicted in court then it's a conviction.

D4109125 wrote:It may well not be on the PNC but that does not mean he does not have a conviction, if he was convicted in court then it's a conviction.

If it's not on the PNC what basis the HO would use to reject their application for BC? And furthermore what basis the HO will use to imply deception?

It is your responsibility to declare a conviction not for the Home Office to try and find out about it. If you fail to declare then you can be seen as being deceptive. The Home Office search the PNC as a routine procedure as not all persons are honest nor do all character issues fall under 'conviction'.

@D4109125 you aren't helping. I appreciate the information but you need to listen to it loud and clear that I AM NOT A CRIMINAL because the way you are writing or responding makes me look like one!!!!

I am telling you as it is, it is not my fault if you do not like what I am writing.

I didn't mean to be rude it was just writing tone which made me feel that. Anyways I am making subject access application to see what information about me being held and will take it from there. I will update it here as soon as I get some more info.

Thanks for the information though.

semiautomatic wrote:

pradan wrote:Congrats friend12345 and semiautomatic.
Did you two use NCS?

I am due to apply for BC..just got fixed penalty notice(not through court) for speeding (RTO act 1988, section 75,76 and 77). I am going to accept it and it is £60 fine and 3 points.

Two queies -
1) Do I need to declare it? - Is it under criminal convictions; as I understand its not a conviction (may b wrong)
2) If I declare it - any likely problems for the application
Thanks
Regards.

Pradan, if it's only an FPN (Fixed Penalty Notice) then you DO NOT need to declare it. We applied through NCS and the lady said we do not need tick the criminal conviction box since it's not a conviction only a Fixed Penalty. However, the NCS would take a copy of your driving license counterpart (paper part) and send it along to Home Office, as a proof that it's only an FPN and not a conviction.

My only confusion related to CU80 is:

I got CU80 due to usage/touching of SatNav in My Mobile and sent 60 pounds immediately along with paper document to relevant address.
Now paper license part stating CU80 as Fixed Penalty Notice FPN) with 3 points and with a court reference as well.

Question:
Although i have not gone to court and paid the amount within 7 days but what is that court reference mentioned on paper document.
Does this mean it is a conviction and matter settled in court regardless i went to court physically or not?
Do i need to mention this on application form as a conviction or just attach copy of paper document just to disclose this?
Can this be verified using Subject Access Application via Police National Computer(PNC)?

Thanks

If you did not get convicted at court (including pleading guilty by post and not going to court, physically) then it is not a conviction, rather a FPN.

Excellent thanks for confirmation.

Can number of FPNs records and all related thing be verified using Subject Access Application via Police National Computer(PNC)?

Thank you.

kasturi75 wrote:We have a similar case as my wife was stopped while driving using a mobile few months ago. She got a £60 fine & 3 points from police, no court case. We also are looking to apply for BC but not sure whether to declare this offence on the application or not? thanks

Even if you don't, you still have to declare it in the "good character" section though right?

Ping!!!

is this compulsory to declare such thing in good character section or simply attach copy of paper document only?

Thanks.

F you have points on your licence, include the counterpart.

D4109125 wrote:F you have points on your licence, include the counterpart.

Thank you Amber, for confirming that just attach copy of license counterpart with application?

Cheers.

Yes. Ensure that it was just an FPN and you did not plead guilty by post etc...

Further to my previous posts, i requested my CRB and Subject Access report - both of them are absolutely clear.

I did go through UK Border Agency policy guidelines;
1. http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/sitec ... ide_an.pdf
2. http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/sitec ... chapter18/

What i can understand is that, if you are convicted through court and it gets recorded as a criminal record then they will refuse your application.

As to my case;
Convicting court code: 2760
Date of Conviction: 30/08/2011
Offence Code: CU80
Date of Offence: 06/02/2011
Penalty Point: 03
Fine: £75

Now since its not recorded on CRB and SAR, its still a fixed penalty isnt it? Help me understand it in more details.

Also in more details of Annex D - 2.1, it says

Sentence: A non-custodial sentence or other out of court disposal that is recorded on a person’s criminal record.

Impact: Applications will normally be refused if the conviction occurred in the last 3 years.

In my case there was no sentence.

Furthermore; In Section 10: Exceptional Grants; it says
the person has one single non-custodial sentence, it occurred within the first 2 years of the 3 (i.e. the person has had no offences within the last 12 months), there are strong countervailing factors which suggest the person is of good character in all other regards and the decision to refuse would be disproportionate.

So why wouldnt I am eligible, as i have crystal clear law abiding history of 9 years and even the above penalty isn't criminal

I may be reading into it too much and would like to make it absolutely clear that I do not mind waiting another 9 months but I am just trying to clear this grey area.

Hope you guys will enjoy it just as much i am enjoying the nitty gritty of law

balixonline wrote:Further to my previous posts, i requested my CRB and Subject Access report - both of them are absolutely clear.

I did go through UK Border Agency policy guidelines;
1. http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/sitec ... ide_an.pdf
2. http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/sitec ... chapter18/

What i can understand is that, if you are convicted through court and it gets recorded as a criminal record then they will refuse your application.

As to my case;
Convicting court code: 2760
Date of Conviction: 30/08/2011
Offence Code: CU80
Date of Offence: 06/02/2011
Penalty Point: 03
Fine: £75

Now since its not recorded on CRB and SAR, its still a fixed penalty isnt it? Help me understand it in more details.

Also in more details of Annex D - 2.1, it says

Sentence: A non-custodial sentence or other out of court disposal that is recorded on a person’s criminal record.

Impact: Applications will normally be refused if the conviction occurred in the last 3 years.

In my case there was no sentence.

Furthermore; In Section 10: Exceptional Grants; it says
the person has one single non-custodial sentence, it occurred within the first 2 years of the 3 (i.e. the person has had no offences within the last 12 months), there are strong countervailing factors which suggest the person is of good character in all other regards and the decision to refuse would be disproportionate.

So why wouldnt I am eligible, as i have crystal clear law abiding history of 9 years and even the above penalty isn't criminal

I may be reading into it too much and would like to make it absolutely clear that I do not mind waiting another 9 months but I am just trying to clear this grey area.

Hope you guys will enjoy it just as much i am enjoying the nitty gritty of law

balixonline - I am afraid this is seen as a conviction Date of Conviction: 30/08/2011 with a 3yr bar. Forget CRB, PNC and SAR you risk refusal if you apply before as this is considered a conviction. If you didn't challenge it then it would have been a normal FPN. I went through detailed research after Amber told me to declare my two traffic offences (I was fined by the court in 07). I declared both and my BC application was successful as both convictions were 6yrs ago while driving on international licenses. IMO I would not risk section 10 but ultimately it's your decision. All the best.

I am not applying yet, i will send my application once 3 years are passed but it was very interesting to read that what is being practiced is not clearly mentioned. in all honesty if Amber hadn't mentioned i would have submitted and may have lost money. so i am thankful for everyones contribution.

The new guidance has an interesting amendment for those who only have one non custodial conviction which has not lapsed, see my FAQ (click) at question 8.

Blimmy, this is prescisly what i wrote to the UK Border Agency this morning!.. Now with my case; I am happy to wait but as you can see Amber that Date of Offence is 06/02/2011 and date of Conviction is 30/08/2013. it certainly has been more than 2 years and I do not have any other record of conviction, caution or anything.

what do you suggest in my case when i believe i am eligible, (it may be safe to wait until 30/08/2014) but what if i do send it sooner directly rather using NCS. what are my odds?

You'll be relying on the discretion of the caseworker if you apply before 3 years has lapsed.