Naturalization - EEA - WRS issue + AN form questions

Hi everyone,

In the last few months I passed all the necessary exams and started to fill in the latest AN Form, but some questions came up unfortunately when I've tried to collect the details about my past 6 years.

The most worrying thing for me is the WRS card. I've read the official Guide, Booklet and the FAQ (Q6) about and I've found some sad stories on this forum as well. I would be very thankful if anyone could assist and/or clarify my questions, please.

I am an EEA national and I live in the UK since 08/2008. I've started to work in the same month when I've arrived and I have contract too, so it was legal. But no one told me that I should have to register WRS, even not to talk about the 30 days time-frame. One of my friend told me about the WRS in 2009 and when I've realised the issue I've immediately applied. It was in 05/2009. Since 08/2009 I work continuously and I had got 2 jobs only. The first one was for 3.5 years, so even I registered the WRS late, I have got 12 months for Treaty Rights. But my concern is the late registration. I've read the Treaty Rights Policy and in the related section says:

9.4 Under the scheme, EU8 nationals were required to apply to register within one month of starting a job and if they did not apply within this period, the employment would be regarded as unlawful as it would not be in line with the transitional controls. If they changed employer during the 12 months period, they were required to re-register under the new employer.

also says:

9.19 When counting the 5 years qualifying period, this should be taken from the date on which the employment started (rather than the date the card was issued) if the EU8 national applied to register within the 30 days window even if the card was issued later. If the EU8 national applied outside of the 30 days window, the qualifying period starts from the date on which the WRS card was issued.

Q1: Could it cause any issue at my application? Does it ruin my Good Character result? Should I have to worry about my application if I send it? Is it possible they will the refuse it? Or should if be fine and I do have got the 5+1 years for the application? Should I mention anything about it at section 7.7 "Special circumstances" (page 29)?

I'd like ask some help to completing AN Form too. I have got 2 questions:

"1.31 Your mother’s full name and maiden name"
Q2: How should I separate clearly those two names in the boxes?

"1.25 - Provide the SELT unique electronic reference number provided by the awarding body"
Q3: What if my IELTS certificate's reference number is longer than the section? It is 1 character longer actually.


Thank you in advance!

Gabor

I believe WRS is very important for A8 nationals.The year you registered for WRS is when your treaty right starts. You also have to register for every job you do. I hope I am right.

Sas Sam wrote:Hi everyone,

In the last few months I passed all the necessary exams and started to fill in the latest AN Form, but some questions came up unfortunately when I've tried to collect the details about my past 6 years.

The most worrying thing for me is the WRS card.

...

Q1: Could it cause any issue at my application? Does it ruin my Good Character result? Should I have to worry about my application if I send it? Is it possible they will the refuse it? Or should if be fine and I do have got the 5+1 years for the application? Should I mention anything about it at section 7.7 "Special circumstances" (page 29)?

I'd like ask some help to completing AN Form too. I have got 2 questions:

"1.31 Your mother’s full name and maiden name"
Q2: How should I separate clearly those two names in the boxes?

"1.25 - Provide the SELT unique electronic reference number provided by the awarding body"
Q3: What if my IELTS certificate's reference number is longer than the section? It is 1 character longer actually.

Thank you in advance!

Gabor

A problem around WRS doesn't ruin your good character as such; it's not treated like a conviction or not paying taxes (etc).

But it may mean your work (before WRS was abolished in '2011') is not recognised as exercising treaty rights such that you have not yet acquired PR (& therefore do not yet have settled status).
This settled status is ofcourse a vital prerequisite to applying for the privilege of citizenship.

See also forum FAQS, especially Q5 & Q6:
http://www.immigrationboards.com/britis ... 95747.html

Do you have a 'confirmation of PR' card?

If you are an A8 national and you have some doubt that your work was properly authorised (and therefore not actually counting towards PR) then suggest first applying for a 'confirmation of PR' card.

It's a much lower risk strategy than shooting for naturalisation directly - only a £65 fee (plus biometrics); this application enjoys appeal rights too.
Ofcourse it causes some delay to naturalising.

(In comparison, naturalisation costs a much higher fee at risk; with no appeal rights).

You can then use the PR card as evidence of settled status to support a later naturalisation application.

Rest of form AN...

Q1.31
Put mother's current full name (married name) on 1st line of the 2 liness of boxes - with a blank space (box) between individual names;

Put mother's maiden name on 2nd line - again with blanks as separators.

English
Are you filling in the exact correct sections about your proof of English? (which ones?)
Is your IELTS a SELT or is it 'just' an ESOL certificate?

Firefade wrote:I believe WRS is very important for A8 nationals.The year you registered for WRS is when your treaty right starts. You also have to register for every job you do. I hope I am right.

I have had to register for WRS when I started my job but if I worked at least 12 month at same place I didn't have to re-register. And as I mentioned I worked for 3.5 years at that job. So I "wasted" 9 months at the beginning but I registered for WRS.

9.5 Once they had been working in the UK legally for 12 months without a break in
employment (not being out of work for more than 30 days in the 12 month period), they
would no longer have to register on the scheme. They could then obtain a registration
certificate confirming their right to live and work in the United Kingdom, although this
aspect was not compulsory.

noajthan wrote: A problem around WRS doesn't ruin your good character as such; it's not treated like a conviction or not paying taxes (etc).

But it may mean your work (before WRS was abolished in '2011') is not recognised as exercising treaty rights such that you have not yet acquired PR (& therefore do not yet have settled status).
This settled status is ofcourse a vital prerequisite to applying for the privilege of citizenship.

See also forum FAQS, especially Q5 & Q6:
http://www.immigrationboards.com/britis ... 95747.html

Do you have a 'confirmation of PR' card?

If you are an A8 national and you have some doubt that your work was properly authorised (and therefore not actually counting towards PR) then suggest first applying for a 'confirmation of PR' card.

It's a much lower risk strategy than shooting for naturalisation directly - only a £65 fee (plus biometrics); this application enjoys appeal rights too.
Ofcourse it causes some delay to naturalising.

(In comparison, naturalisation costs a much higher fee at risk; with no appeal rights).

You can then use the PR card as evidence of settled status to support a later naturalisation application.

No, I don't have PR card yet. I haven't applied for it, because I've thought everything is fine with my documents. I'll check the PR card process. Do you know how long does it take approximately?

So you are saying because I registered for WRS too late it doesn't count at all?! Even if I have more than 12 months continus work at that job? In that case why the Policy says:
"If the EU8 national applied outside of the 30 days window, the qualifying period starts from
the date on which the WRS card was issued."

noajthan wrote:
Rest of form AN...

Q1.31
Put mother's current full name (married name) on 1st line of the 2 liness of boxes - with a blank space (box) between individual names;

Put mother's maiden name on 2nd line - again with blanks as separators.

Thank you! I'll do that.

noajthan wrote: English
Are you filling in the exact correct sections about your proof of English? (which ones?)
Is your IELTS a SELT or is it 'just' an ESOL certificate?

Yes, I'm sure I filled in the right section. It should be the 1.25 because I sat the exam on July 2015. It was a IELTS UKVI exam (Approved SELT).

Thank you!

Sas Sam wrote:...

No, I don't have PR card yet. I haven't applied for it, because I've thought everything is fine with my documents. I'll check the PR card process. Do you know how long does it take approximately?

So you are saying because I registered for WRS too late it doesn't count at all?! Even if I have more than 12 months continus work at that job? In that case why the Policy says:
"If the EU8 national applied outside of the 30 days window, the qualifying period starts from
the date on which the WRS card was issued."

...

Thank you!

PR card processing appears to take several months.
There's a timeline thread in the forum you can subscribe to to track other people's progress.

So you didn't register with WRS within the 1st 30 days of your employment but you did eventually register (9? months late);
you then stayed with 1st employer without a break for over 12 months.
Do you have that (& any subsequent) WRS certificate?

If you can afford the wait it may still be prudent to apply first for the confirmation of PR card.
You risk less & you will identify any problems with your treaty rights.

If you think you have all necessary evidence let's see if you can hear from anyone who has followed exact same track to give you further reassurance.

noajthan wrote: PR card processing appears to take several months.
There's a timeline thread in the forum you can subscribe to to track other people's progress.

So you didn't register with WRS within the 1st 30 days of your employment but you did eventually register (9? months late);
you then stayed with 1st employer without a break for over 12 months.
Do you have that (& any subsequent) WRS certificate?

If you can afford the wait it may still be prudent to apply first for the confirmation of PR card.
You risk less & you will identify any problems with your treaty rights.

If you think you have all necessary evidence let's see if you can hear from anyone who has followed exact same track to give you further reassurance.

Exactly. So I've worked for that employer from 08/2008 to 03/2012, but I've registered for WRS at 05/2009, because nobody told me that is required (not even within 30 days).

But as you can see I have the 12 months after 05/2009, but there is a black hole in between 08/2008 and 05/2009. And that's what I'm worrying about...

I do have the WRS card an on that certificate the issue date is 05/2009 but also the card mentions my exact start date at employer which is 08/2008. I don't have any other WRS because I changed my job in 2012.

Sas Sam wrote:Exactly. So I've worked for that employer from 08/2008 to 03/2012, but I've registered for WRS at 05/2009, because nobody told me that is required (not even within 30 days).

But as you can see I have the 12 months after 05/2009, but there is a black hole in between 08/2008 and 05/2009. And that's what I'm worrying about...

I do have the WRS card an on that certificate the issue date is 05/2009 but also the card mentions my exact start date at employer which is 08/2008. I don't have any other WRS because I changed my job in 2012.

Good you have something.

WRS was nominally abolished in 2011 anyway.
However there was a recent UT court ruling (last January) that deemed it was illegally extended after 2009.
fyi, see:
http://www.immigrationboards.com/eea-ro ... 94938.html

But as you say there is a potential black hole in your record from late 2008.

Unless someone else can shed light on it suggest shoot for a PR card in first place.

What's the rush;
- even with the referendum in 2016, UK would/could not leave EU before 2018 or so (if at all!).

noajthan wrote:Good you have something.

WRS was nominally abolished in 2011 anyway.
However there was a recent UT court ruling (last January) that deemed it was illegally extended after 2009.
fyi, see:
http://www.immigrationboards.com/eea-ro ... 94938.html

But as you say there is a potential black hole in your record from late 2008.

Unless someone else can shed light on it suggest shoot for a PR card in first place.

What's the rush;
- even with the referendum in 2016, UK would/could not leave EU before 2018 or so (if at all!).

Yes, there is gap but with few questions still...

• Does it matter? Because the policy says: "If the EU8 national applied outside of the 30 days window, the qualifying period starts from the date on which the WRS card was issued."
• I have the 12 months after the WRS was issued
• the WRS card says what was the exact start date at my job in late 2008.
• I already have had the 5+1 years in 05/2015.
• I have P60s, P45, covering my whole last 6 years.

But anyways, probably you're right, I should go with the EEA(PR) first... My fear mainly is to send all my original documents and there is a chance to lose... What if the Royal Mail lose it when HO will send it back to me or when I send it to them? I'm very scared because of this. I will use the special delivery option of course with tracking but they won't when they will send it back to me. Then I won't have any documents and the P60, P45 and WRS are not replicable. The process is much better at Citizenship because at NCS the council make copies of all my original documents and I don't have to send them, but I can keep it.

Sas Sam wrote:Yes, there is gap but with few questions still...

• Does it matter? Because the policy says: "If the EU8 national applied outside of the 30 days window, the qualifying period starts from the date on which the WRS card was issued."
• I have the 12 months after the WRS was issued
• the WRS card says what was the exact start date at my job in late 2008.
• I already have had the 5+1 years in 05/2015.
• I have P60s, P45, covering my whole last 6 years.

But anyways, probably you're right, I should go with the EEA(PR) first... My fear mainly is to send all my original documents and there is a chance to lose... What if the Royal Mail lose it when HO will send it back to me or when I send it to them? I'm very scared because of this. I will use the special delivery option of course with tracking but they won't when they will send it back to me. Then I won't have any documents and the P60, P45 and WRS are not replicable. The process is much better at Citizenship because at NCS the council make copies of all my original documents and I don't have to send them, but I can keep it.

Agreed, NCS is a safe service in connection with naturalisation.

For PR card application, can you not include a pre-paid & self-addressed special delivery envelope (the grey one) in the package?
Ie for HO use to return your documents to you?

No doubt you will ofcourse scan all the originals & keep multiple copies of them (together with a record of your application form & payment details).

'CamScanner', a free Android app for tablets/smartphones, comes in handy here.

noajthan wrote:Agreed, NCS is a safe service in connection with naturalisation.

For PR card application, can you not include a pre-paid & self-addressed special delivery envelope (the grey one) in the package?
Ie for HO use to return your documents to you?

No doubt you will ofcourse scan all the originals & keep multiple copies of them (together with a record of your application form & payment details).

'CamScanner', a free Android app for tablets/smartphones, comes in handy here.

I will ask this today at a Post Office. But I guess I need to know the sender's address to buy a prepaid special delivery label for them. Shall I say it is the same address where I will send the application?

Of course I will scan all the papers what I will send there! I already have scanned version of all my official documents, letters, etc. what I've received in my last 7 years here. It's an obvious thing to do for me, fortunately. But it won't be enough if any original may will be lost in the future (but at least I'll have something).

Shall I ask few questions about the EEA(PR)?

"9.15 Did you/your sponsor work for an uninterrupted period of 12 months in accordance with one or more of the documents mentioned in the table above?"
Q1. Should I say 05/2010 as the end of 12 months period? Because my WRS' issue date is 05/2010.

"9.17 If you were/your sponsor was exempt or not required to register or obtain authorisation, please explain why below – e.g. you had leave which did not restrict your right to work, were the family member of an EEA national qualified person, spouse/civil partner of a British citizen, etc. You must also provide relevant evidence – see section 18 and the guidance notes."
Q2. Should I mention that 08/2008-05/2009 period here because of late WRS reg.?

"9.18 If you/your sponsor worked without permission at any time during the accession period (and were not exempt), give details below. Continue on a separate sheet if necessary."
Q3. Should I mention that 08/2008-05/2009 period here because of late WRS reg.?

Sas Sam wrote:I will ask this today at a Post Office. But I guess I need to know the sender's address to buy a prepaid special delivery label for them. Shall I say it is the same address where I will send the application?

Of course I will scan all the papers what I will send there! I already have scanned version of all my official documents, letters, etc. what I've received in my last 7 years here. It's an obvious thing to do for me, fortunately. But it won't be enough if any original may will be lost in the future (but at least I'll have something).

Shall I ask few questions about the EEA(PR)?

"9.15 Did you/your sponsor work for an uninterrupted period of 12 months in accordance with one or more of the documents mentioned in the table above?"
Q1. Should I say 05/2010 as the end of 12 months period? Because my WRS' issue date is 05/2010.

"9.17 If you were/your sponsor was exempt or not required to register or obtain authorisation, please explain why below – e.g. you had leave which did not restrict your right to work, were the family member of an EEA national qualified person, spouse/civil partner of a British citizen, etc. You must also provide relevant evidence – see section 18 and the guidance notes."
Q2. Should I mention that 08/2008-05/2009 period here because of late WRS reg.?

"9.18 If you/your sponsor worked without permission at any time during the accession period (and were not exempt), give details below. Continue on a separate sheet if necessary."
Q3. Should I mention that 08/2008-05/2009 period here because of late WRS reg.?

You don't need to know the Sender address ahead of time.

You can buy a prepaid special delivery envelope (it's a grey plastic envelope) and simply fill in the 'To' address with your address.
There is a blank space for 'Sender'. You can leave it blank or just put "Home Office".
When I previously used this approach the caseworker filled in the rest of the sender address & it all worked out fine.

Good that you are an obsessive scanner (like me). It's sometimes surprising how many people don't do this.

About your questions, not 100% sure but here are my impressions (fwiw):

Q1) Isn't the answer simply 'Yes' (?)

Q2) N/A. You did not have an exemption so nothing to say here.

Q3) You will have to enter details of the late registration for WRS.
Suggest emphasise you did register in the end (either in response to the question &/or in a cover letter).

There is no need for you to apply for a PR first.
I had the same problem when applying for a British Passport for my child.
HO confirmed that my qualifying period starts at WRS issue date and the passport was approved.

When having my NCS appointment they also confirmed that my 5 years start at the issue date of WRS (awaiting approval)

HO will need to see that you worked continuously for 12 months with the same employer. You will need to prove that by providing P45 (if you are not working for that employer any more) or P60 + couple payslips confirming you worked there long enough.

As the application requires 10 years employment history, you need to include the "illegal" work.
However it doesn't affect your application.

noajthan wrote:You don't need to know the Sender address ahead of time.

You can buy a prepaid special delivery envelope (it's a grey plastic envelope) and simply fill in the 'To' address with your address.
There is a blank space for 'Sender'. You can leave it blank or just put "Home Office".
When I previously used this approach the caseworker filled in the rest of the sender address & it all worked out fine.

Good that you are an obsessive scanner (like me). It's sometimes surprising how many people don't do this.

Ahh, thanks! I know now which one is that. Hopefully tomorrow I will have a chance to get there.

noajthan wrote: About your questions, not 100% sure but here are my impressions (fwiw):

Q1) Isn't the answer simply 'Yes' (?)

No, it isn't. I mean the first part is. But it has a 2nd part which says:
"If yes, when did you/your sponsor complete this 12-month period?"

And have to write a date there.

noajthan wrote: Q2) N/A. You did not have an exemption so nothing to say here.

Q3) You will have to enter details of the late registration for WRS.
Suggest emphasise you did register in the end (either in response to the question &/or in a cover letter).

Thank you very much!

Today I've talked to the HO about my issue and they gave me an email address to where I have to send my question and they will be able to give official answer (hopefully). I did it already and waiting for the response.

I have time unfortunately because I cannot send the EEA(PR) while my old bank statements are on its way from the bank.

Torex wrote:There is no need for you to apply for a PR first.
I had the same problem when applying for a British Passport for my child.
HO confirmed that my qualifying period starts at WRS issue date and the passport was approved.

When having my NCS appointment they also confirmed that my 5 years start at the issue date of WRS (awaiting approval)

HO will need to see that you worked continuously for 12 months with the same employer. You will need to prove that by providing P45 (if you are not working for that employer any more) or P60 + couple payslips confirming you worked there long enough.

As the application requires 10 years employment history, you need to include the "illegal" work.
However it doesn't affect your application.

Wow... that's very interesting! Thanks for sharing! Do you mean this topic?

So did you already have the citizenship? Did you have any issue when you applied for? You delayed only 1 day with... but I have 9 months...

Did you get rejection "only" when you applied for passport for your child? Or did it happen with your application as well?

Sas Sam wrote:Wow... that's very interesting! Thanks for sharing! Do you mean this topic?

So did you already have the citizenship? Did you have any issue when you applied for? You delayed only 1 day with... but I have 9 months...

Did you get rejection "only" when you applied for passport for your child? Or did it happen with your application as well?

Yes, I meant that topic.
Yes, the WRS was delayed just one day, however law is the same for 1 day and for 9 months. It says if your WRS registration is late, then the qualifying period starts on the date the WRS card was issued.
It wasn't an official rejection, just a conversation between myself and HO.
After I provided them with the formal letter explaining why they are wrong, they've changed their mind and approved my child's passport application.

I'm still awaiting the approval for my British Citizenship application, I haven't been contacted by HO yet.

Yesterday I've received the answer from WRS office. It wasn't a big help at all... They says:
"This is an e-mail service to confirm registration on the Worker Registration Scheme only."

and

"If you would like confirmation of your registration under WRS please tell us your date of birth and nationality"

But I know I'm registered on WRS already because I have WRS card already (I've mentioned in my letter). So I've no idea what supposed to be that "confirmation"... It seems to me I won't get any straight and clear answer from them...

noajthan wrote: About your questions, not 100% sure but here are my impressions (fwiw):

Q1) Isn't the answer simply 'Yes' (?)

Q3) You will have to enter details of the late registration for WRS.
Suggest emphasise you did register in the end (either in response to the question &/or in a cover letter).

I've get the bank statements... so I started to fill the form in. But I still have questions because this section still blurry for me. So the "9.15 Did you/your sponsor work for an uninterrupted period of 12 months in accordance with one or more of the documents mentioned in the table above?" ask a yes/no question as well as a date if your answer is yes. I entered the 05/2010 date as the end of my 12months uninterrupted period.

In term of my Q3 it's complicated... because I have to enter something there (9.18) if I ticked the option "Worked without permission – go to 9.18" at 9.16. But the question for 9.16 is the following:

"If, at any point during the accession period, you/your sponsor worked without holding one of the documents listed in the table above, why was this?"

But I didn't work without permission during my accession period (12 months period). Am I right? So I shouldn't have to enter anything at 9.18 as well as I shouldn't have to tick the "worked without permission" option.

Any suggestion? Thank you in advance!

Sas Sam wrote:I've get the bank statements... so I started to fill the form in. But I still have questions because this section still blurry for me. So the "9.15 Did you/your sponsor work for an uninterrupted period of 12 months in accordance with one or more of the documents mentioned in the table above?" ask a yes/no question as well as a date if your answer is yes. I entered the 05/2010 date as the end of my 12months uninterrupted period.

In term of my Q3 it's complicated... because I have to enter something there (9.18) if I ticked the option "Worked without permission – go to 9.18" at 9.16. But the question for 9.16 is the following:

"If, at any point during the accession period, you/your sponsor worked without holding one of the documents listed in the table above, why was this?"

But I didn't work without permission during my accession period (12 months period). Am I right? So I shouldn't have to enter anything at 9.18 as well as I shouldn't have to tick the "worked without permission" option.

Any suggestion? Thank you in advance!

Your answers to Q9.15 make sense (based on stated dates/timeline - I think you said your WRS was issued 5/2009).

Don't forget:

If the EU8 national applied outside of the 30 days window, the qualifying period starts from the date on which the WRS card was issued

For Q9.16 & Q9.18 - my understanding is you will have to fill these 2 questions in.

Note The accession period is defined as per page 51 of the form:

EU8 Nationals:
Accession period: 1 May 2004 to 30 April 2011

ie it is not what you seem to be interpreting as a kind of personal accession (12-month) period

Hope it makes sense.

Don't forget a comprehensive & clear cover letter (or suitable explanatory paragraphs added in section Q9.13) too.

For example, quote the WRS rules about a late-starting registration.
(You could think about quoting the 2015 UT ruling on 'illegal' extension to WRS after 2009 too),

Best of luck.

noajthan wrote:Your answers to Q9.15 make sense (based on stated dates/timeline - I think you said your WRS was issued 5/2009).

Don't forget:

If the EU8 national applied outside of the 30 days window, the qualifying period starts from the date on which the WRS card was issued

For Q9.16 & Q9.18 - my understanding is you will have to fill these 2 questions in.

Note The accession period is defined as per page 51 of the form:

EU8 Nationals:
Accession period: 1 May 2004 to 30 April 2011

ie it is not what you seem to be interpreting as a kind of personal accession (12-month) period

Hope it makes sense.

Don't forget a comprehensive & clear cover letter (or suitable explanatory paragraphs added in section Q9.13) too.

For example, quote the WRS rules about a late-starting registration.
(You could think about quoting the 2015 UT ruling on 'illegal' extension to WRS after 2009 too),

Best of luck.

Thank you for your help! It was invaluable! I've sent the application today, so ... fingers crossed!

Timeline for my EEA(PR) application:

PR application sent on: 07/10/2015

Sas Sam wrote:Timeline for my EEA(PR) application:

PR application sent on: 07/10/2015

I have just received the approval letter from HO.
So I guess you should not have any problems related to your late WRS registration.
Good Luck!

Sas Sam wrote:Timeline for my EEA(PR) application:

PR application sent on: 07/10/2015

PR application sent on: 07/10/2015
Account debited on: 09/10/2015

Sas Sam wrote:

Sas Sam wrote:Timeline for my EEA(PR) application:

PR application sent on: 07/10/2015

PR application sent on: 07/10/2015
Account debited on: 09/10/2015

PR application sent on: 07/10/2015
Account debited on: 09/10/2015
Email from HO ("Your application has been received and is being considered."): 19/10/2015

Seems the decision to apply for PR first before Naturalization was the best thing! Thanks @noajthan again! The Form AN changed on 02/11 as well as the Booklet. The section 2.4 changed a lot and seems everyone should have to apply for PR first.

Instead of the tables where we have to mention our previous workplaces, it has been removed and added a new block which says:

Please state the number of your Permanent Residence card and the date of issue:"

The Booklet modified too. It get additional text:

You should apply for a permanent residence card to prove that you hold that status before applying for citizenship

and

You will need to provide evidence of 6 years continuous residence when you apply for your permanent residence card.

I'm still waiting for any result from HO.