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New citizenship form UKF

A section for posts relating to applications for Naturalisation or Registration as a British Citizen. Naturalisation

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Antsmall
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Re: New citizenship form UKF

Post by Antsmall » Fri Oct 16, 2015 6:13 pm

So the stuff you said earlier about them not requiring the biometric stuff, because you had applied earlier than the beginning of that requirement, must have been true.

Can you tell us what sort of material you received about the citizenship ceremony? Just an instruction to contact the consulate or something more precise? The problem is that at least where I am (which is also in the USA), the British consulate makes itself impossible to contact: it has no email address, its phone number only has recorded messages, it doesn't allow anyone to turn up without an appointment, and the appointment-booking system on its website is broken. So I hope they gave you something more concrete. Thanks for any information you may provide!

yktamimi
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Re: New citizenship form UKF

Post by yktamimi » Fri Oct 16, 2015 6:35 pm

Would you like to hear the wonderful news?
I have contacted the HM passport office earlier this day; I asked them if they accept a nationality status letter issued from the home office.....Amazingly they have said yes. and decided to expend my application deadline
I am going to fill out the NS application form on behalf of my father; I think that I have to submit a proof of his citizenship.
I have to right to the examiner of passport office to ask here if I can get hold of my father's British passport. this passport will be used as a proof of citizenship when I submit it along with the NS Application form.

Has anyone got anyone idea about NS applicaiton form, like processing time...and any important hints

Antsmall
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Re: New citizenship form UKF

Post by Antsmall » Fri Oct 16, 2015 6:43 pm

That's a relief. I was going to point out that someone else - and I think it's mikeg333 who just posted another message today, but forgive me if I'm wrong - said that they too didn't have their naturalised parent's original naturalisation certificate but the citizenship authorities DID accept a certified copy from the national archives, precisely the document that the passport people wouldn't accept from you (unreasonably, since the authorities themselves are the ones that make it impossible to obtain a duplicate certificate so they should have some sort of workaround in place).

Hopefully this will work. I do not know the first thing about it, though, and you may be better posting it in a category more closely related to it or, if you can't find one, making it into its own thread about Nationality Status letters within the citizenship category of the forum. I don't know anything more about it than what anyone with an internet connexion could glean by simply doing online searches.

Look here
http://www.immigrationboards.com/british-citizenship/
(this is the general citizenship category of this forum) and see if there's an existing thread about the same topic, and if not - or if you post there and nobody answers because the thread is too old - then create a new thread about this topic and call it something that others with a similar problem will notice, such as "Nationality Status letter".

mikeg333
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Re: New citizenship form UKF

Post by mikeg333 » Fri Oct 16, 2015 7:06 pm

My acceptance letter said my certificate is being mailed to the Los Angeles British consulate. That is the one I put on my application where I would like to do my ceremony. They said they will contact me to arrange the ceremony. I also am looking for a way to contact them. I have a trip planned in less than 3 weeks to the UK and need to do my ceremony before then. Can't find any information on how to contact them either.

In terms of the documents sent with my application, I used a certified copy of my mothers naturalization certificate from the 1960s that I got from the UK National Archives and they accepted that.

Now need to figure out if I can do a rush passport after my ceremony.

yktamimi
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Re: New citizenship form UKF

Post by yktamimi » Fri Oct 16, 2015 7:22 pm

To mikeg333

As per your last email, I just would like to know, what exactly you have applied for? Is it a British passport or British citizenship?
If your mum was a British citizen by naturalization then I would presume that you’re a British citizen by descent. In this case there is no need for you to neither apply for citizenship nor register your birth. However you can apply straightaway for the passport. As it would cost less time and money.

One more thing. You have mentioned that you have obtained your mother's naturalization certificate from the national archives. Was she a foreign national? Because foregoing nationals do not get the chance to get duplicate certificate, they can however obtain an index record. This is what happened with me when I applied to obtain my father's certificate.
His certificate's ref. number HO 409/27/17739
http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.u ... /C12181210

Could you tell me please what’s your mother ref. number

mikeg333
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Re: New citizenship form UKF

Post by mikeg333 » Fri Oct 16, 2015 7:27 pm

I am American born in the US but my mother is British. I applied to register as a British citizen using form UKM similar to UKF. When I applied back in April I had to get a certified copy of her naturalisation certificate from the National Archives as she lost hers and it was from the 1960s. They sent me an A4 embossed certified copy which I included in my UKM application.

I still need to do a ceremony oath for my registration and then need to apply for a UK passport.

Antsmall
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Re: New citizenship form UKF

Post by Antsmall » Fri Oct 16, 2015 7:44 pm

Thank you Mikeg333 for the information about the citizenship ceremony, and congratulations on your success during this long process!

Yktamimi, the reason why Mikeg333 had to register instead of merely applying for a passport is, I suspect, because he or she was born before 1983. After 1983, mothers and civilly married fathers who were British 'otherwise than by descent' (meaning essentially by birth in Britain or naturalisation, though it's a bit more complicated) could both convey nationality for one generation to their children born abroad. Before then, only civilly married fathers could do that; nationality was not passed through the mother. The law changed and now people born abroad before 1983 to British mothers (who are not British only by descent) can obtain British citizenship if only they first register themselves for citizenship just as the UKF people (children of civilly unmarried fathers) are doing, but with a very similar form called UKM instead. So that is why Mike had to register before applying for a passport. It's all about the dates. Correct me Mike if I'm wrong.

Regarding replacement naturalisation certificates, you've probably seen this already but first of all there's this: https://www.gov.uk/get-replacement-citi ... ertificate As you can see, and as you've already been informed by the national archives, you can't get a *replacement* certificate for a naturalisation certificate issued before 1986, but you can get a certified copy from the archives. This is described here:
http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/help ... 1949-1986/ This must have been what the national archives told you they could give you, what Mikeg333 got, and what your particular passport person rejected as 'not an official document'. It is possible that, as we've been seeing in several places on this forum, the *citizenship* authorities are more lenient than the *passport* authorities: for instance, this thread
http://www.immigrationboards.com/britis ... 83170.html
shows that while the citizenship authorities will allow a person to register or naturalise for citizenship in their married name even though their foreign passport is in their maiden name, the passport authorities won't issue a passport in the married name unless the foreign passport has also been issued in that name or, at their discretion and quite recently following efforts to obtain some flexibility, unless the dual national submits proof that they are unable to change the name on their foreign passport because their other country doesn't allow name changes. My point is that the passport authority is a different office from the citizenship authority and appears to be stricter; ironically, since Mike had to go through a more convoluted (hence from one perspective much more annoying) process to obtain citizenship and it involved the citizenship office, the certified copy of the naturalisation certificate was accepted and the citizenship registration certificate will be able to be used for gaining a passport, whereas your process is technically 'simpler' because you only have to apply directly for a passport, BUT you are facing difficulties due to the problem with your father's naturalisation certificate because the passport people, or just the specific official that handled you case, is being more constipated about this than Mike's citizenship official. It is an example of the Kafkaesque self-contradiction and complication that bureaucracies can develop.

Luckily though, you may now be able to by-pass this entire problem by obtaining a Nationality Status letter, so hopefully the above information will be rendered irrelevant.

So, congratulations to both of you and good luck to all.

bfrenchfry
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Re: New citizenship form UKF

Post by bfrenchfry » Sat Oct 17, 2015 1:40 am

Anstmall, I'm officially in the same boat now as your other contact. I'm 1.5 weeks shy of 6 months and just got the dreaded letter saying following assessment of my case I cannot be processed in the 6 months, also blaming an "outstanding policy issue which needs to be resolved". I'm guessing that's the biometric requirement which they haven't bothered setting up centers in the US to handle yet? My letter states "we expect to make a decision on your application by 28/12/2015, but we will write to you again if this is not going to be possible". So I guess I'm looking at 8 months of waiting if I'm lucky. This is absolutely insane. Oh and of course they didn't return my documents to me even though I've requested them through their site 3 times now!!

lagos1980
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Re: New citizenship form UKF

Post by lagos1980 » Sat Oct 17, 2015 8:18 pm

Antsmall wrote:I've just heard from someone who is approaching, or has even possibly reached by now, the six-month mark since their application. They say that they've now received a letter from the Home Office recognising that their application was approaching the 'target' resolution date of six months, and stating that the person's case will probably be resolved by the 25th of December (hmm).

So at least once cases reach the six-month mark, or are about to do so, the Home Office may give signs of life. (We have only one example so far, but it's better than nothing). Also, the six-month mark does appear to have some significance for them: they imply that we have some vague right to expect that the case should have been resolved by then. In this panorama of almost uniform bleakness it is encouraging that they are communicating with someone if even in such a slow and unclear manner.

The letter also referred to some 'outstanding policy issues' that have to be sorted out in order for the case to be finalised, but was no clearer than that. Neither I nor the recipient of the letter have any clue what they could possibly mean. These mysterious 'issues' may be the reasons for all the delays we're seeing. After all, I know of only one person who got citizenship this way, and that may have been before these 'policy issues' came to light.

I wonder if some of the other earlier applicants will begin to receive similar letters in the near future.

Is this person applying from the US? I'm asking because if they are in the US, like bfrenchfry pointed out, the "outstanding policy issue" may be the absence of biometric info. In which case, those of us applying from countries where this isn't an issue can still be optimistic about a resolution within the 6 months.

Antsmall
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Re: New citizenship form UKF

Post by Antsmall » Sat Oct 17, 2015 8:39 pm

The other person was applying from Australia. The only document they've issued
https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/s ... ule_v2.pdf
about the schedule of opening the biometric schedule (unless there's another one that I haven't found) gives Australia as one of the countries in category 3 (May 2015). Obviously they haven't obeyed their own schedule because the USA was in category 4 ('rest of the world', July 2015) and there hasn't been a peep about the biometric infrastructure there to date, but Australia was supposed to be sorted out earlier. Of course it could be that they still haven't opened the biometric thingies in Australia either, since the fact that they declare a date obviously doesn't mean much.

So basically we have no idea if it's the biometric thing or not.

I hate how they express it: "a decision on your application" and "policy issues which may affect your case" as if somehow the person's eligibility for citizenship were being questioned rather than it merely being a matter of them having to sort out some bureaucracy or infrastructure. They could have been kinder. They also could have refrained from ruining people's Christmas.

I'm sorry bfrenchfry that you have to go through this nonsense after waiting so long. I guess this is their modus operandi now and many of us will probably receive a similar letter soon enough. And this business of not returning your passport, preventing you from working, is truly disgraceful. Well the whole business is. They had more than a year between approval of the law in March 2014 and commencement in April 2015 and they still can't sort themselves out. Their incompetence is becoming disrespectful to us.

By the way, another example of the extreme negligence of such officials is the passport office's failure to address a Freedom of Information request I made on the 15th of April even though by law they should have responded long ago. It seems that negligence and unnecessary delays are rife in British bureaucracy.
https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/ ... oose_h/new

yktamimi
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Re: New citizenship form UKF

Post by yktamimi » Sat Oct 17, 2015 9:29 pm

Dear All
I just have a quick question about the proper supporting documents that should go along with the NS application form. according to the Home Office stuff (When I had a telephone coversation with him) he requested a Passport, but in some other forums they mentioned that I have to obtain an indexed record of naturalization certificate from the national archives, and get it sent over to the home office. This is necessary because the home office does not retain any records for certificates issued before 1986.

Could I have any input here.

anahamilton
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Re: New citizenship form UKF

Post by anahamilton » Sat Oct 17, 2015 11:26 pm

yktamimi wrote:Dear All
I just have a quick question about the proper supporting documents that should go along with the NS application form. according to the Home Office stuff (When I had a telephone coversation with him) he requested a Passport, but in some other forums they mentioned that I have to obtain an indexed record of naturalization certificate from the national archives, and get it sent over to the home office. This is necessary because the home office does not retain any records for certificates issued before 1986.

Could I have any input here.
This is a UKF Form related topic. Please, forward your message to the correct topic. Thanks.

lagos1980
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Re: New citizenship form UKF

Post by lagos1980 » Sun Oct 18, 2015 12:18 am

Antsmall wrote:The other person was applying from Australia. The only document they've issued
https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/s ... ule_v2.pdf
about the schedule of opening the biometric schedule (unless there's another one that I haven't found) gives Australia as one of the countries in category 3 (May 2015). Obviously they haven't obeyed their own schedule because the USA was in category 4 ('rest of the world', July 2015) and there hasn't been a peep about the biometric infrastructure there to date, but Australia was supposed to be sorted out earlier. Of course it could be that they still haven't opened the biometric thingies in Australia either, since the fact that they declare a date obviously doesn't mean much.

So basically we have no idea if it's the biometric thing or not.

I hate how they express it: "a decision on your application" and "policy issues which may affect your case" as if somehow the person's eligibility for citizenship were being questioned rather than it merely being a matter of them having to sort out some bureaucracy or infrastructure. They could have been kinder. They also could have refrained from ruining people's Christmas.

I'm sorry bfrenchfry that you have to go through this nonsense after waiting so long. I guess this is their modus operandi now and many of us will probably receive a similar letter soon enough. And this business of not returning your passport, preventing you from working, is truly disgraceful. Well the whole business is. They had more than a year between approval of the law in March 2014 and commencement in April 2015 and they still can't sort themselves out. Their incompetence is becoming disrespectful to us.

By the way, another example of the extreme negligence of such officials is the passport office's failure to address a Freedom of Information request I made on the 15th of April even though by law they should have responded long ago. It seems that negligence and unnecessary delays are rife in British bureaucracy.
https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/ ... oose_h/new

Applicants from Australia, have any of you done your biometrics, or received a letter to do so?

Antsmall
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Re: New citizenship form UKF

Post by Antsmall » Sun Oct 18, 2015 3:13 am

In the meantime, here
http://www.immigrationboards.com/britis ... M#p1249141
there are several references to people in Australia (mostly UKM, citizenship through mothers, which is very similar to ours) having done their biometrics recently - in the past couple of months or so. It looks, therefore, as if the biometric centres have in fact been set up there. This would suggest that the mysterious 'policy issue' that is now being presented as a reason for these quite substantial and increasingly burdensome delays in citizenship applications is not related to the biometric procedures.

And here
http://www.immigrationboards.com/britis ... M#p1256172
there is another reference to people getting letters about the impossibility of their cases being processed within six months. There is also mention of a 'policy' though there is no indication of what it might be.

mikeg333
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Re: New citizenship form UKF

Post by mikeg333 » Sun Oct 18, 2015 3:14 am

bfrenchfry I would still have hope as I received the same exact letter saying an outstanding policy issue and mine would be decided on December 24th. Two weeks after I got that letter I got my approval. I don't think they are requiring biometrics from US applicants until they have set it up.

As far as getting your passport back I tried that online form never got a reply. I emailed the FurtherNationality address that I had urgent travel as I was flying internationally and they had someone contact me within a few days to arrange the return of my passport.

Antsmall
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Re: New citizenship form UKF

Post by Antsmall » Sun Oct 18, 2015 3:24 am

Mikeg333, I saw that you mentioned in another thread that there was a date in May before which applications from the USA wouldn't be subjected to the biometric requirement. Could you perchance let us know what that date in May was and/or where you got the information? The only indication about 'rollouts' that we have is this thing
https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/s ... ule_v2.pdf
which suggests July as the date for the 'rollout' in 'the rest of the world' (including the USA), but it does not refer to any date in May for the USA or any date before which applications from any given country would be exempt from the new biometric requirement.

Thanks very much! And also thanks for letting us know that your scary letter was followed by a rather swift approval, which is very encouraging for those who have also received the scary letter.
mikeg333 wrote:bfrenchfry I would still have hope as I received the same exact letter saying an outstanding policy issue and mine would be decided on December 24th. Two weeks after I got that letter I got my approval. I don't think they are requiring biometrics from US applicants until they have set it up.

As far as getting your passport back I tried that online form never got a reply. I emailed the FurtherNationality address that I had urgent travel as I was flying internationally and they had someone contact me within a few days to arrange the return of my passport.

bfrenchfry
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Re: New citizenship form UKF

Post by bfrenchfry » Sun Oct 18, 2015 3:36 am

mikeg333 wrote:bfrenchfry I would still have hope as I received the same exact letter saying an outstanding policy issue and mine would be decided on December 24th. Two weeks after I got that letter I got my approval. I don't think they are requiring biometrics from US applicants until they have set it up.

As far as getting your passport back I tried that online form never got a reply. I emailed the FurtherNationality address that I had urgent travel as I was flying internationally and they had someone contact me within a few days to arrange the return of my passport.
That's so good to know! I'm going to not get my hopes up as I've just been feeling cursed through this whole experience, but it would really be a nice early Christmas present to finally be approved.
And yes, I wrote to the further nationality email last week trying to track down my passport, so hopefully they'll respond with some helpful information

Congrats on your approval!

Antsmall
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Re: New citizenship form UKF

Post by Antsmall » Sun Oct 18, 2015 4:05 am

I now gather that the other person who received this 'outstanding policy issues' letter has in fact completed their biometrics. Therefore we know that it's not the biometrics though we don't know what it is - and we know through Mike that the letter doesn't necessarily indicate a major problem of some kind. Perhaps it's just a form letter that they send whenever the application approaches the six-month mark. Who knows.

bfrenchfry
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Re: New citizenship form UKF

Post by bfrenchfry » Sun Oct 18, 2015 7:44 pm

Antsmall wrote: Perhaps it's just a form letter that they send whenever the application approaches the six-month mark. Who knows.
That wouldn't surprise me at all. Mine was dated exactly 5 months from my application date, so it might just be their idea of protecting themselves...

Cloverbea
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Re: New citizenship form UKF

Post by Cloverbea » Mon Oct 19, 2015 7:21 pm

SO.....I had a thought today....
after speaking with immigration ....again.....

what if....the reason there aren't many UKM/UKF form folks here or in the world because they also called the Passport advice line and were told they were eligible for a passport, they applied and got it and that was the end of it....

We were told to call immigration, after calling another immigration line, only to be told to call the other immigration line.....oh my word. And of course they won't say a word to you if you are under the six month mark....The immigration officers I spoke to didn't understand why I hadn't paid an application fee, but when I told them it was a ceremony fee they told me my application MUST be in process since I paid the APPLICATION fee.....?!?! None of them communicate whatsoever, so hubby is thinking to get his paperwork back and apply for his passport :/ This is nuckin' futs.....

bfrenchfry
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Re: New citizenship form UKF

Post by bfrenchfry » Mon Oct 19, 2015 8:18 pm

Cloverbea wrote:SO.....I had a thought today....
after speaking with immigration ....again.....

what if....the reason there aren't many UKM/UKF form folks here or in the world because they also called the Passport advice line and were told they were eligible for a passport, they applied and got it and that was the end of it....

We were told to call immigration, after calling another immigration line, only to be told to call the other immigration line.....oh my word. And of course they won't say a word to you if you are under the six month mark....The immigration officers I spoke to didn't understand why I hadn't paid an application fee, but when I told them it was a ceremony fee they told me my application MUST be in process since I paid the APPLICATION fee.....?!?! None of them communicate whatsoever, so hubby is thinking to get his paperwork back and apply for his passport :/ This is nuckin' futs.....
I thought about just applying for a passport originally, but that doesn't make you a citizen does it? I've heard horror stories of trying to get housing in London without being a citizen. Apparently the fines are so steep for letting a flat to an illegal that no one will even think of it. Also, the passport application pages haven't been updated yet and all still claim you need to send your parents marriage certificates if your father was the English one. I can't imagine many of the passport people are going to be familiar with UKF type applications either. I'm just keeping my fingers crossed that the letter was automatically issued at 5 months, and since I applied in April don't need to do biometrics, and my approval will be in the mail shortly....

bfrenchfry
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Re: New citizenship form UKF

Post by bfrenchfry » Thu Oct 22, 2015 1:24 am

Well I have another update, though still not a good one sadly. I just got my passport back in the mail along with a letter saying "once work begins on your application we may need to request them again but please do not send them until we write to you requesting them".
They also enclosed one letter that is the acknowledgement of reciept which I had never received before today.
Then the third letter enclosed first calls my application UKM which is wrong, it's UKF. It says "from April 6 2015, applicants for British citizenship must enrol their biometric identifiers as part of the application process." Then blah blah "unfortunately it has taken longer than we expected to put in place the necessary technical infrastructure and this has meant that we have been unable to schedule biometric enrollments". Then in bold it says "we now expect this to be resolved by October 2015, when we will be able to invite you to arrange your enrollment visits. We will contact you again in October to explain what you need to do next."

So there is only 1.5 weeks left of October. Wonder when they think they're contacting me to enrol. I'm still holding out hope that like mikegg I don't have to actually do it since I applied before the roll out in May. All their letters are such stock nonsense and no one ever knows what they're talking about. All I can do is pray...

Cloverbea
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Re: New citizenship form UKF

Post by Cloverbea » Fri Oct 23, 2015 1:25 am

Oh wow, thats crazy. It seems so out of sorts the information you're receiving.
I hope you get a good resolution soon, it seems crazy that you're getting certain information that doesn't even pertain to you. If you aren't required to get biometrics, then you should be done by now :/

On a personal note, we haven't received one of those letters yet stating anything about policy issues....we haven't received anything, I don't know if that's good or bad. You'll continue to be in my thoughts, and I'll update if anything is heard on this end!

mikeg333
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Re: New citizenship form UKF

Post by mikeg333 » Fri Oct 23, 2015 7:18 pm

bfrenchfry wrote:Well I have another update, though still not a good one sadly. I just got my passport back in the mail along with a letter saying "once work begins on your application we may need to request them again but please do not send them until we write to you requesting them".
They also enclosed one letter that is the acknowledgement of reciept which I had never received before today.
Then the third letter enclosed first calls my application UKM which is wrong, it's UKF. It says "from April 6 2015, applicants for British citizenship must enrol their biometric identifiers as part of the application process." Then blah blah "unfortunately it has taken longer than we expected to put in place the necessary technical infrastructure and this has meant that we have been unable to schedule biometric enrollments". Then in bold it says "we now expect this to be resolved by October 2015, when we will be able to invite you to arrange your enrollment visits. We will contact you again in October to explain what you need to do next."

So there is only 1.5 weeks left of October. Wonder when they think they're contacting me to enrol. I'm still holding out hope that like mikegg I don't have to actually do it since I applied before the roll out in May. All their letters are such stock nonsense and no one ever knows what they're talking about. All I can do is pray...
I received all of these type of letters as well. I think their right hand doesn't know what the left hand is doing. I've already received my approval letter yet still getting email responses about waits from emails I sent 6 weeks ago! So, that shows you that those letters are auto generated.

I received approval w/o having to do biometrics and my case worker explained that was because it is not setup in the US yet. I assume once I get a UK passport and arrive in the UK I will have to do some sort of biometrics during my passport interview.

I'm doing my ceremony in a few weeks but I am going for a 2 month trip to London soon. Does anyone know if I can enter with my US passport and my registration certificate? I won't have time to get a passport before I arrive. Essentially once my ceremony is done I am a British Citizen so not sure they can deny me entry but won't have a UK passport to enter with.

Antsmall
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Re: New citizenship form UKF

Post by Antsmall » Fri Oct 23, 2015 7:56 pm

Mikeg333 and Bfrenchfry, when did you apply again? I seem to remember that Bfrenchfry applied around the 27th or 29th of April. What I'm trying to determine is whether the date has any influence on this.

Yes, it seems that these people are clueless and inconsistent in many ways. For instance, they seem to be telling Mikeg333 that the absence of biometric infrastructures in his country of residence exempts him (or her?) from the biometric procedure, thereby expediting the application process, while telling Bfrenchfry, who quite possibly applied at the same time, that the very same absence of these infrastructures means that the application is entirely on hold: more or less the opposite response to the same condition.

It could be anything. It could be that UKM applications (that is Mikeg333's category I believe) are being handled by another set of people who react in different ways compared to those handling UKF applications: the unpredictable 'human' element. It could be that since UKM applications have existed for longer and UKF applications are new, UKF adds another layer of confusion for these already rather... inept individuals or triggers a mental emergency state which causes them to be especially officious.

I applied in May so I'm waiting for my 6-month letter any day now - or its alternative, namely nothing at all for an indefinite amount of time. Somehow I've got so used to hearing nothing from these people that I can't imagine hearing from them ever again.

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