Right of Abode or British Passport or Indian Passport?

sher123 · Post by **sher123** » Tue Nov 27, 2012 10:42 am

I and my family are Indian nationals with UK ILR since 2009. We had a new-born child couple of months back. Since I didn’t intend to apply for British passport for my child, I opted for an Indian passport for her, which I duly obtained. Then I decided to apply for ILR status for my child to enable her to have the same status as everyone in the family.

Yesterday I had PEO (in-person premium service appointment) at UKBA. UKBA refused to consider ILR application on the grounds that my daughter by the virtue of being born in UK and having resident parents automatically is a British citizen, and hence is not eligible for ILR. They refused to accept that I had no intention of gaining UK citizenship in future.

Is UKBA’s refusal to grant ILR on child’s Indian passport correct? If not, what are the grounds on which I can challenge them?

UKBA advised that I had 2 alternative courses of action:
(1) I can apply for British passport for my child or
(2) I can apply for Certificate of Entitlement to Right of Abode on her Indian Passport

Problem is that I and my family (including the new-born child) are all booked to travel to India in mid-December. With just 2 weeks to go what is the best I can do to ensure that we can still travel to India and be able to return to UK?

Option 1:
I don’t apply for British passport or Right of Abode. My child can go to India on Indian passport; while returning to UK she will not face any issue at Heathrow (London) immigration desk since she will be acknowledged as a British citizen (with her birth certificate and parent’s ILR status). However, she is likely to be not allowed to board the plane at Delhi, India on her way to UK. Authorities in India are likely to deem her as not having valid documents to travel to UK.

Under this option, what is chance that my child can’t travel back to UK? Will she be allowed to board plane to UK? This is admittedly a risky option, but if she can be allowed to return to UK, then it is well worth taking.

Option 2:
I apply for British passport. I can use fast track service to get the passport within a week. Then I apply for an Indian visa for her British passport (I’m not sure that Indian HCI in London will issue visa in the first place given that she already is an Indian passport holder). Assuming that she can get Indian visa on British passport, she can use that to travel to India.

(2A) Travels to India on UK passport with Indian visa:
Indian authorities will discover that she is holding 2 passports against the law and may not allow her entry or may block her exit or may force me to surrender Indian passport. It is published on the Indian High Commission website that “a three month grace period from the date of acquiring foreign nationality i.e. the date of Naturalisation certificate”. I am hoping that I should not be penalised since my British passport acquisition would still be within the 3 month grace period. Will this option create any problem either at India or UK?

(2B) Travels to India on Indian Passport & Returns to UK on UK passport:
This might create the same problem as above with all the entry date stamp issues. I may be able to wriggle out of it by saying that 3 month grace period still applies to me. Will this work?

Which of the 2A & 2B options is most feasible?

Option 3:
The child travels to India on Indian passport. While in India she applies for Certificate of Entitlement to Right of Abode (RoA) at British High Commission, Delhi. Will UKBA accept RoA application at Delhi centre? Is this option workable?

Which of the above options (1), (2) & (3) is easiest and most feasible, given my time constraint to travel within next 2 weeks?

---------

Is there a fast-track service or a same-day premium service to obtain Right of Abode while applying from within UK? I’m told that there is none and the only option is to send the application by post to Liverpool office. If you are aware of any quicker method to get a RoA (even it means using an immigration advisor), let me know.

Thanks. Your inputs will be most appreciated.

jagacharaja · Post by **jagacharaja** » Tue Nov 27, 2012 2:05 pm

This is quite interesting. Your child is (was) eligible for both nationalities at birth, and you as the parent chose for Indian nationality (fair enough). I think UKBA is giving you BS although I don't blame them. From their perspective a child born to ILR-parents is eligible for UK citizenship.

To that extent, given the time constraints (and assuming you are not too particular about your child carrying an Indian passport forever), I would say your child's safest bet would be to travel to India on Indian passport, and whilst there, surrender the Indian passport and get a British passport for your child. This will allow safe passage in to the UK (and also won't create problems whilst checking-in at Delhi airport for your UK flight.)

You will need to research the relevant British High Commission in India on how to get the British passport in India (and also on how to surrender Indian nationality IN India) - and decide whether these two tasks can be achieved in a realistic timeframe.

Would be curious to follow your progress via this thread. Good luck.

PS: With regards to Option 1, it might be worth checking with the airline if they will let your child on their flight from India to UK with an Indian passport. Response to that might help you prepare a plan of action.

sher123 · Post by **sher123** » Tue Nov 27, 2012 6:23 pm

Any more responses? Vinny, jambo, greenie, other gurus and moderators and other members, your responses would be much appreciated.

geriatrix · Post by **geriatrix** » Tue Nov 27, 2012 7:29 pm

Your child is British by birth, so the child cannot be granted settlement (ILE or ILR). Just because the child has been issued an Indian passport doesn't negate the fact that the child is a British citizen as well.

So the question of challenging UKBA's decision to not accept an application for settlement or the legality of the issue does not arise.

Jambo · Post by **Jambo** » Tue Nov 27, 2012 8:22 pm

Long term would you like your child to be Indian or British? Once she apply for a British passport, she loses the Indian citizenship. The British citizenship will always be there even if a British passport is not applied for.

How long have you got in India? I believe CoE in India takes several weeks but worth checking with BHC.

sher123 · Post by **sher123** » Tue Nov 27, 2012 9:34 pm

I will be in India for 3.5 weeks. I have already booked an appointment at UKBA India for RoA application on 17th Dec. Unfortunately with x-mas & year-end season, I fear that I may get delayed. I will check with BHC about expected time-frame.

Jambo, anecdotally do you know how long it takes for CoE in India?

Long term I would prefer my child to be an Indian. I never know when I will pack my bags and head home. With one child a British citizen and everyone else in the family Indian with ILR, I don't want to be caught in a situation where I'm forced to stay in UK even when I don't want to. Will my child with British passport be able to renounce her citizenship (even before she turns 18 or gets married) and gain Indian passport/citizenship whenever such a situation arises that the family needs to move back to India? Can she get OCI/PIO status on British passport while we maintain status quo?

I wish I had known the UKBA stance on situation like mine. I would have applied for CoE in UK long time back instead of facing a race against time now. It frustrates me that parents can't choose to decide for their own kids; but then rules have always been mule.

geriatrix · Post by **geriatrix** » Tue Nov 27, 2012 9:46 pm

A minor cannot renounce British citizenship.

Whether and how Indian citizenship may be reacquired is subject to Indian citizenship laws. Please post queries regarding Indian citizenship / OCI / PIO in this forum.

avol · Post by **avol** » Thu Jan 31, 2013 10:17 pm

Can you please let me know what happened with your ROA visa application in India. We were in the same situation as yours in Nov 2012. The only difference between your case and ours is in our family I was naturalised as British Citizen in 2011 and our daughter was born after that. However my wife is an Indian citizen with Indefinite Leave to Remain.

We applied for Indian passport for newborn daughter whilst she was in UK. I applied for ROA abode in Chennai on 21st of Dec. Today we received passport along with Visa Refusal letter. The explanation they gave is (in the below lines, you means the applicant ie my daughter)

"""" you have applied for a certificate of entitlement to the right of abode under section 2(1)b(i) of the Immigration Act 1971 as amended on the grounds that you were born to a parent, who at the time of your birth was citizen of the UK by virtue of naturalisation

I note that your father was naturalised on 21/7/2011. You were born on 14/04/2012 in the UK and your birth was registered in the UK. You were therefore not a commonwealth citizen at the time of your birth. I am therefore not satisfied that you have the right of abode in the UK.

I have therefore refused your application because I am not satisfied, on the balance of probabilities that you meet all the requirements of the relevant Paragraph of the UK Immigration Rules"""""

No my question is why Commonwealth Citizen came into picture here. I claimed ROA for my daughter since she is British Citizen by birth. Please HELP ME, MY FAMILY IS STUCK IN INDIA NOW

sher123 · Post by **sher123** » Mon Feb 04, 2013 10:31 am

avol wrote:Can you please let me know what happened with your ROA visa application in India.
Please HELP ME, MY FAMILY IS STUCK IN INDIA NOW

This sounds very strange. I can't see why the application should be rejected unless the application was filled incorrectly. It appears that you may have grounds to appeal the rejection if the rule was incorrectly interpreted. You daughter is a Indian passport holder and she is eligible for RoA by virtue of her birth and her parent's residency status.

I gave up the idea of applying for RoA from India. I instead applied in UK and got my RoA within 2 weeks. In the process I had to cancel my visit to India, since the RoA arrived 2 days later (after my scheduled travel date). The impression I got after inquiring about RoA application in India was that it wouldn't be processed within a short time and I couldn't risk getting stuck in India. From your experience, it appears that RoA decision took 4-5 weeks. I'm glad that my wife dissuaded me against taking the chance with RoA application in India.

Mahesh Gowda · Post by **Mahesh Gowda** » Fri Jul 12, 2013 4:25 pm

Myself and my wife both have indian passport with ILR.
Baby born in uk in march 2013, decided to apply for indian passport and after getting passport travelled to india.
Applied for certificate of entitlement to right of abode in vfs bangalore on 19/06/2013.
We got the certificate of entitlement stamped on 4/07/2013. Passport reached on 10/07/2013.

I hope this info helps someone in similar situation to us.

vinny · Post by **vinny** » Sat Jul 13, 2013 12:09 am

avol wrote:Can you please let me know what happened with your ROA visa application in India. We were in the same situation as yours in Nov 2012. The only difference between your case and ours is in our family I was naturalised as British Citizen in 2011 and our daughter was born after that. However my wife is an Indian citizen with Indefinite Leave to Remain.

We applied for Indian passport for newborn daughter whilst she was in UK. I applied for ROA abode in Chennai on 21st of Dec. Today we received passport along with Visa Refusal letter. The explanation they gave is (in the below lines, you means the applicant ie my daughter)

"""" you have applied for a certificate of entitlement to the right of abode under section 2(1)b(i) of the Immigration Act 1971 as amended on the grounds that you were born to a parent, who at the time of your birth was citizen of the UK by virtue of naturalisation

I note that your father was naturalised on 21/7/2011. You were born on 14/04/2012 in the UK and your birth was registered in the UK. You were therefore not a commonwealth citizen at the time of your birth. I am therefore not satisfied that you have the right of abode in the UK.

I have therefore refused your application because I am not satisfied, on the balance of probabilities that you meet all the requirements of the relevant Paragraph of the UK Immigration Rules"""""

No my question is why Commonwealth Citizen came into picture here. I claimed ROA for my daughter since she is British Citizen by birth. Please HELP ME, MY FAMILY IS STUCK IN INDIA NOW

The refusal was incorrect, as child satisfies 2(1)(a).

ukba2536 · Post by **ukba2536** » Mon Dec 16, 2013 10:26 pm

Mahesh Gowda wrote:Myself and my wife both have indian passport with ILR.
Baby born in uk in march 2013, decided to apply for indian passport and after getting passport travelled to india.
Applied for certificate of entitlement to right of abode in vfs bangalore on 19/06/2013.
We got the certificate of entitlement stamped on 4/07/2013. Passport reached on 10/07/2013.

I hope this info helps someone in similar situation to us.

Hi mahesh,

me too applying for CoE RoA for my daughter.

1.do we need to submit any kind of trip sponsor or financial evidence
2. does she need to take TB testing

please let me know what documents you provided

many thanks

Gols · Post by **Gols** » Thu Dec 19, 2013 4:36 pm

Mahesh Gowda wrote:Myself and my wife both have indian passport with ILR.
Baby born in uk in march 2013, decided to apply for indian passport and after getting passport travelled to india.
Applied for certificate of entitlement to right of abode in vfs bangalore on 19/06/2013.
We got the certificate of entitlement stamped on 4/07/2013. Passport reached on 10/07/2013.

I hope this info helps someone in similar situation to us.

Minor can hold both uk and British passport till the age of 18. My 3yr old have both passport, he enter in India Oct 2010 on his indian PP (at that time he was having only Indian passport, then applied for uk passport and got it) , left India on Indian passport and enter uk on his uk PP in June 2013. I don't think for a child who is having both thePP, needs any OCI or POI???

Planning to travel to India soon and wondering if my son can enter India on his Indian PP or does he need OCI???( father in BC and mother is Indian citizen).

ashok2013 · Post by **ashok2013** » Sat Jan 04, 2014 6:06 pm

Hello Sir,

I am planing to apply Right of Abode (ROA) in India within next two weeks, Could you please help me out

1) Is i am my eglible for ROA - As a father i am British citizen thru Naturlization and My mother (Child's) holding ILR visa
2) What is the difference between Certificate of Entitlement and Right of abode?
3) Please provide me link for application to apply ROA from INDIA vfs office?
4) What are all supporting documents required to be produce to get ROA for my child?
5) What is the fee to paid and mode of payment please?

Please please provide me the above information

Thanks

ashok2013 · Post by **ashok2013** » Sun Jan 05, 2014 11:00 am

Hello Gurus,

Please help me out, I am in great trouble getting my new born baby to UK - Since last 3 months i am struggling to satisfy British High commission office (BHC) New Delhi for child British passport

I am struggle to get British passport for my baby since last 3 months. At the moment, it looks like it is almost impossible to bring back the child to UK on British Passport because of the documents they require i.e Father's ORIGINAL BRITISH PASSPORT

- Father :
British Citizen thru Naturalization presently residing in UK
- Mother :
ILR in UK residing presently with baby in INDIA

Can i apply for Certificate of Entitlement for Right of Abode.

Thanks

bullet0072000 · Post by **bullet0072000** » Wed Jan 08, 2014 11:47 pm

Hi Avol,

Could you please let me know about ur RoA from chennai. Did u appeal.... Why did they say common wealth citizen. Please let me know.

Thanks
Mahe

avol wrote:Can you please let me know what happened with your ROA visa application in India. We were in the same situation as yours in Nov 2012. The only difference between your case and ours is in our family I was naturalised as British Citizen in 2011 and our daughter was born after that. However my wife is an Indian citizen with Indefinite Leave to Remain.

We applied for Indian passport for newborn daughter whilst she was in UK. I applied for ROA abode in Chennai on 21st of Dec. Today we received passport along with Visa Refusal letter. The explanation they gave is (in the below lines, you means the applicant ie my daughter)

"""" you have applied for a certificate of entitlement to the right of abode under section 2(1)b(i) of the Immigration Act 1971 as amended on the grounds that you were born to a parent, who at the time of your birth was citizen of the UK by virtue of naturalisation

I note that your father was naturalised on 21/7/2011. You were born on 14/04/2012 in the UK and your birth was registered in the UK. You were therefore not a commonwealth citizen at the time of your birth. I am therefore not satisfied that you have the right of abode in the UK.

I have therefore refused your application because I am not satisfied, on the balance of probabilities that you meet all the requirements of the relevant Paragraph of the UK Immigration Rules"""""

No my question is why Commonwealth Citizen came into picture here. I claimed ROA for my daughter since she is British Citizen by birth. Please HELP ME, MY FAMILY IS STUCK IN INDIA NOW

ashok2013 · Post by **ashok2013** » Thu Jan 09, 2014 12:20 am

Hi Gurus,

Can you please let me known, is my baby eligible for 'Certificate of Entitlement for Right of Abode'

a) Father - British Citizen thru Naturalization in March 2012
b) Mother - ILR (Indefinite to Leave in UK) in May 2010 and Holding Indian Passport
c) Baby born in India i.e Aug 2013 and Holding Indian Passport
d) Both Mother and Baby in India since delivered

Can i apply COE ROA for baby in India or not?

Thanks

vinny · Post by **vinny** » Thu Jan 09, 2014 1:00 am

ashok2013 · Post by **ashok2013** » Sun Jan 12, 2014 8:45 am

Thanks vinny

I am completely visa application for 'Certificate of Entitlement for Right of Abode' of my son, applying from India - I had come across few questions, Can you please let me known the appropriate answer for below,

1. How long do you intended to stay in the UK?
2. Income and Expenses section?
3. Total amount of the trip?

Regards,
Ashok

vinny · Post by **vinny** » Sun Jan 12, 2014 11:40 am

What are the question numbers? What is the form that you are using?

I don't see those questions on the form.

ashok2013 · Post by **ashok2013** » Sun Jan 12, 2014 1:33 pm

You can see on the Online application form, It is Mandatory to complete application online now

Please follow step-by-step:

1) https://www.visa4uk.fco.gov.uk/
2) Create login credentials and login
3) Click on 'Apply for SomeoneElse' (i.e I am applying for my child on his behalf)
4) Click 'Continue' button
5) Select Visa Type : Right of Abode Certificate of Entitlement
6) Passport and Travel Information section:
How long do you intend to stay in the UK?
7) Employment and Income section :
What is the total amount in GBP(£)?

Thanks

ashok2013 · Post by **ashok2013** » Sun Jan 12, 2014 1:37 pm

You can see on the Online application form, It is Mandatory to complete application online now

Please follow step-by-step:

1) https://www.visa4uk.fco.gov.uk/
2) Create login credentials and login
3) Click on 'Apply for SomeoneElse' (i.e I am applying for my child on his behalf)
4) Click 'Continue' button
5) Select Visa Type : Right of Abode Certificate of Entitlement
6) Passport and Travel Information section:
How long do you intend to stay in the UK?
7) Employment and Income section :
What is the total amount in GBP(£)?

Thanks

chakarj · Post by **chakarj** » Fri Jan 17, 2014 6:42 pm

Hi Ashok,

I'm in the same situation

Father - british citizen by naturalisation
Mother - ILR on indian passport

I will be applying for certificate of entitlement in chennai for my baby who was born in india(oct 2013).

Can you tell me what documents did you submit for certificate of entitlement and if we have to submit original docs.

Do you know what is the processing time?

Thanks

chakarj · Post by **chakarj** » Sat Jan 18, 2014 4:16 am

chakarj wrote:Hi Ashok,

I'm in the same situation

Father - british citizen by naturalisation
Mother - ILR on indian passport

I will be applying for certificate of entitlement in chennai for my baby who was born in india(oct 2013).

Can you tell me what documents did you submit for certificate of entitlement and if we have to submit original docs.

Do you know what is the processing time?

Thanks

Can anyone guide me with this query or share their experience.

Thanks

specy_99 · Post by **specy_99** » Wed Jan 22, 2014 5:46 pm

Could you please advise what documents did you send?

I am in UK and my wife and daughter in India. Can I register on the VFS website mand pay by my UK debit card? and my wife and daughter can go and apply for ROA?

What documents are required for ROA? Please HELP!

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