Questions about benefits

ILR1980 · Post by **ILR1980** » Fri Nov 18, 2016 3:23 am

Hi there,

Can someone clarify what benefits settled/British person are entitled too if their kids and wife are subject to immigration control ? I know i have resource to public funds being a settled person but my 2 children(less than 2 years old) and spouse(not working at the moment) is on initial phase of settlement visa which is subject to immigration control with no resource to public funds. I still qualify some child tax credit and child benefit as per calculator for this earning disclosed earlier to financially support the family. My understanding is that i am still entitled to child benefit, child tax credits, working tax credit if qualify? Am i correct? I also have understanding that child benefit should be only on your name while tax credit should be claimed jointly as per regulation of tax credit? what about others benefits like income related or housing ? Can you claim these at single rate or for kids?

There is no clear guideline about all sort of benefits and their impact on future leave to remain application for family settlement visa but this Guide of " public funds " on gov.UK talk about this exception. Is this just apply to child benefit and CTC and WTC?

" Provided one member of a couple is not subject to immigration control, or is covered by one of the exceptions to the general exclusion, the couple are treated as though:

• neither of them were subject to immigration control (as if the other partner were not subject to immigration control)

• both of them were covered by the exception that applies to the other partner.

This exception applies to both tax credits, CTC and WTC

If one member of a couple is subject to immigration control, and the couple are entitled to WTC but not to CTC, there is no entitlement to the second adult element of WTC, unless the claimant subject to immigration control falls into exception 3 above

https://www.gov.uk/government/upload...unds_v13.0.pdf

Petaltop · Post by **Petaltop** » Fri Nov 18, 2016 10:35 am

The idea behind the financial requirment to sponsor your family and the 35k for ILR, is that you show you can keep your own family.

Therefore

ILR1980 wrote:what about others benefits like income related or housing ? Can you claim these at single rate or for kids?

You cannot claim benefits to house your children. Any Housing benefit claim will be as a single person. If you are under age 35, then that is the shared room rate of HB minus (your income and some benefits).

You have already found the income based benefits you can claim: Tax Credits and Child Benefit.

If you are in an area where Tax Credits has already been replaced by Universal Credit, then there are different rules to claim that, i.e. both parents to work: self employment based on what the claimant should earn even if they don't etc. Most of the benefits were increased because of the financial crisis, but now they are going back to what they were before.

Can your wife get a job? You could claim some of the childcare costs back via the benefit Working Tax Credit. Under a Universal Credit claim, she will be expected to look for work when the youngest child is age one.

CR001 · Post by **CR001** » Fri Nov 18, 2016 12:20 pm

Petaltop wrote:The idea behind the financial requirment to sponsor your family and the 35k for ILR, is that you show you can keep your own family.
The £35k requirement is ONLY for Tier 2 General migrants applying for ILR w.e.f. April 2016.

You cannot claim benefits to house your children. Any Housing benefit claim will be as a single person. If you are under age 35, then that is the shared room rate of HB minus (your income and some benefits). HB can be claimed as Single plus children as far as I am aware.

Petaltop · Post by **Petaltop** » Fri Nov 18, 2016 4:03 pm

CR001 wrote: The £35k requirement is ONLY for Tier 2 General migrants applying for ILR w.e.f. April 2016.

Exactly, to make sure people will have enough to keep their own families, especially with a spouse working too and with the limit of 2 children to claim for with TCs and HB(?) starting in a few months time and with their replacement UC of course. That doesn't mean that those who applied for ILR before that date or those who didn't need to show 35k for ILR, can get addtional money from the welfare state.

There are some very strict welfare change coming in, including the replacement of 6 income based welfare payments (3 of which the OP mentioned) where parents will now have to do more to keep their own children. Some strict sanctions too now.

CR001 wrote:HB can be claimed as Single plus children as far as I am aware.

OP said his children are subject to immigration control. Tax Credits is one of the exceptions for his children and his wife too for WTC, if they have a child, but I can't find where it says HB is. Perhaps i missed it? Although we don't know what citizenship his wife and children hold for any exceptions.
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/public-funds
I haven't finished reading this yet, but I don't know if Casa has?

There are some interesting additions to Public Funds in that guide as well as confirmation of others i.e. an admin error causing benefits to be paid to someone when not allowed, will not cause a refusal, but the benefits to be paid back.

ILR1980 · Post by **ILR1980** » Fri Nov 18, 2016 7:18 pm

Thank you guys for reply

Petaltop wrote:The idea behind the financial requirment to sponsor your family and the 35k for ILR, is that you show you can keep your own family.

ILR1980 wrote:what about others benefits like income related or housing ? Can you claim these at single rate or for kids?
You cannot claim benefits to house your children. Any Housing benefit claim will be as a single person. If you are under age 35, then that is the shared room rate of HB minus (your income and some benefits).

You have already found the income based benefits you can claim: Tax Credits and Child Benefit.

If you are in an area where Tax Credits has already been replaced by Universal Credit, then there are different rules to claim that, i.e. both parents to work: self employment based on what the claimant should earn even if they don't etc. Most of the benefits were increased because of the financial crisis, but now they are going back to what they were before.

Can your wife get a job? You could claim some of the childcare costs back via the benefit Working Tax Credit. Under a Universal Credit claim, she will be expected to look for work when the youngest child is age one.

Actually financial circumstances of certain families keep changing over time and never stay the same for the rest of their lives. There is not enough guideline on internet about couple where one is British/settled with resource to public funds while others is subject to immigration control and thing become complicated if they have children as children cannot claim for themselves so i assume their visa status is irrelevant.

My intention was to know the immigration ruling about sponsors( with resource to public funds) claiming benefits without having any negative impact on future leave to remain application of their child or spouse who are on settlement visa route. I am earning same amount that i disclosed to UKBA to financially support the family but child benefit has nothing to do with your earnings and calculator still offer child tax credit even if you earned £28,000 for last years ..

So what i understand from your post is that people in same circumstances as myself can only claim child benefit, child tax credit or working tax credit then there will be no negative impact on future visa application of dependants or if i claim any others benefits then they should be claimed at single person rate even when i have children with me..My wife actually cannot work right now because of looking after 2 kids who are just 16 months old..childcare cost? you mean someone else look after my kids and i get the refund of amount which i paid to them?

ILR1980 · Post by **ILR1980** » Fri Nov 18, 2016 7:27 pm

Petaltop wrote:
CR001 wrote: OP said his children are subject to immigration control. Tax Credits is one of the exceptions for his children and his wife too for WTC, if they have a child, but I can't find where it says HB is. Perhaps i missed it? Although we don't know what citizenship his wife and children hold for any exceptions.
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/public-funds
I haven't finished reading this yet, but I don't know if Casa has?

There are some interesting additions to Public Funds in that guide as well as confirmation of others i.e. an admin error causing benefits to be paid to someone when not allowed, will not cause a refusal, but the benefits to be paid back.

I have read this guideline as i posted this link in my OP but this guideline is still vague and unclear about others benefits beside child benefits, CTC, WTC . If your child is subject to immigration control and one of parent hold settle status or British nationality then if their child is on settlement visa with no resource to public funds then why parent can claim child benefits on their behalf? why same logic cannot be applied for housing benefit? or am i missing something in here ?

Petaltop · Post by **Petaltop** » Fri Nov 18, 2016 9:14 pm

ILR1980 wrote: I have read this guideline as i posted this link in my OP but this guideline is still vague and unclear about others benefits beside child benefits, CTC, WTC . If your child is subject to immigration control and one of parent hold settle status or British nationality then if their child is on settlement visa with no resource to public funds then why parent can claim child benefits on their behalf? why same logic cannot be applied for housing benefit? or am i missing something in here ?

The benefit rules often differ. What is taken as income for one benefit is not for another: what is taken as capilal for one is not for another; the savings cap for most income based benefits is 16K and savings of 6k and over reduces benefits for most income based benefits but not for other income based benefits; some can still have free school dinners when they claim WTC and some can't; some get greater deductutions for council tax allowance than others on the same income; some have to pay all their CTC and WTC back for that year while others don't etc, etc, etc.

The benefits are all dealt with by hundreds of different departments via the DWP, HMRC and all the councils all over the country. HMRC handle the benefits Tax Credits and Child Benefit.

The ending of 6 income based benefits and putting them all under the new one income based benefit for working age people, Universal Credit, will be fairer. Fairer for those who do want to get off benefits or find themselves on them only for a few months. Basically, these income based benefits will return to only being for those that truely are in need, but there will be no more using them as a lifestyle choice.

Fairer too to the taxpayers eventually when they get everyone onto UC as they won't need all those hundreds of different buildings, running costs of those buildings, staff, staff pensions.

Have a read of the document and see if you can find other benefits for your famliy who are under immigration control as I couldn't find any but you might, but remember that it all changes when you are moved onto UC as both parents will now be required to work to keep their own children.

Or can you take a second job? Or your wife work a few hours when you can look after the children? You can claim some of your childcare costs back via WTC.

Petaltop · Post by **Petaltop** » Fri Nov 18, 2016 9:44 pm

ILR1980 wrote: but child benefit has nothing to do with your earnings

Child Benefit is an income based benefit.
https://www.gov.uk/child-benefit/overview

ILR1980 wrote:and calculator still offer child tax credit even if you earned £28,000 for last years .

TC is based on the previous years earnings with a 2.5k disregard and number of children etc No limit to the number of children claimed for.

From April 2017 TC claimants can only claim for 2 children (some transitional protection). The same for those who are already on Universal Credit.

TCs are not fit for purpose and are being replaced by Universal Credit. No more of parents only workng 24 hours between them as they were on TCs and both parents will be required to work. The 'worker parent' will have to earn 35 hours per week at the hourly national minimum wage; the 'carer parent' required earnings will be based on the age of the youngest child i.e. once the child is age 1 they need to look for 20 hours a week at NMW; once the youngest is a teenager, then they too have to earn 35 hours per week at NNW. UC is based on earnings and not hours the claimant say they work(as Tax Credits is).

"Two bites of the same cherry" is also ending - if disabilty benefit is being claimed then there is no more extra benefits via Tax Credits for that disabilty.

ILR1980 · Post by **ILR1980** » Fri Nov 18, 2016 11:40 pm

Petaltop wrote:
ILR1980 wrote: but child benefit has nothing to do with your earnings
Child Benefit is an income based benefit.
https://www.gov.uk/child-benefit/overview.

You did not got the point. I was saying that you get fixed amount of child benefit irrespective of your earning . You only pay tax charge if you or your partner individual income is over £50,000 so my point was that there are certain benefit which you can still claim even when you have this income needed to financially support the family for settlement purpose.

Secondly you also misunderstood that i want benefits for my family. I just want to know what i am entitled too as per present rules and regulations so that it dont bring any negative impact on future visa application of my dependants. I wanted to know if these exception just exist in case of tax credits and child benefit which you get basically because of children who still have no resource to public funds written on their BRP. This guide dont actually address housing or income related benefits whether sponsor can get these at single rate or whether children can be part of it etc

Thirdly Universal credit is different which is all in one sort of fund for peopel with low income or no work and you have option to either claim universal credit or tax credits as cannot claim boht and i dont think they are replacing each others. You cannot claim universal credit if you already getting
income-based Jobseeker’s Allowance
income-related Employment and Support Allowance
income-related Incapacity Benefit

Its your option to choose universal credit instead of claiming Jobseekers Allowance, housing benefit
working tax credit, child tax credit etc

Petaltop · Post by **Petaltop** » Sat Nov 19, 2016 12:18 pm

ILR1980 wrote: You did not got the point. I was saying that you get fixed amount of child benefit irrespective of your earning . You only pay tax charge if you or your partner individual income is over £50,000 so my point was that there are certain benefit which you can still claim even when you have this income needed to financially support the family for settlement purpose.

Not quite. At one time everyone did get CB, but now it has been made a income based benefit.

- Below the 50K earnings threshhold for CB get the full amount for the children.
- Those over 50k but below the cap for that benefit, have CB tapererd (are given less CB).
- Those over that set cap for this benefit, get nothing. However, if they have a spouse at home looking after children and who doesn't pay NI, they can use CB to get a NI credit towards that partners pension. They do that by the stay at home parent claiming CB and then the high earner pays all the money back by doing a SA with HMRC. This is done so that those who keep their own children (don't need benefits) are not disadvantaged too much.

The government also allow the parent to pay more into their pension to reduce their earnings, to be able to claim (and keep) any CB money.

ILR1980 wrote:Secondly you also misunderstood that i want benefits for my family.

You are asking about what income based benefits you can have to keep your family. Tax Credits, Child Benefit, Housing Benefit, are all income based benefits.

ILR1980 wrote:Thirdly Universal credit is different which is all in one sort of fund for peopel with low income or no work and you have option to either claim universal credit or tax credits as cannot claim boht and i dont think they are replacing each others.

Universal Credit is part of the welfare reforms and it is IS replacing 6 income based benefits.
https://www.turn2us.org.uk/Benefit-guid ... de-content

ILR1980 wrote:Its your option to choose universal credit instead of claiming Jobseekers Allowance, housing benefit
working tax credit, child tax credit etc

You won't get that option. Under the Welfare Reform Act, you will be told when your exisiting income based benefits are being stopped. You will then need to sign a Universal Credit agreement before you can claim Universal Credit.
https://www.turn2us.org.uk/Benefit-guid ... de-content

If you have a while without benefits while your UC claim is being processed and your family are in hardship, you can apply for a upfront payment of your UC claim, but that will have to be paid back via a reduction in the money you are given via Universal Credit.

There are three ways to put on UC.

If you haven't claimed benefits yet, then you might be in area where Universal Credit is in already in for couples and those with children and will go onto UC.

If you trigger a change in your benefits after April 2017(?) then you are moved onto UC as above. There will be no transitional protection from any drop in the amount of benefits you are given.

By April 2018(?) all the rest will start to be be moved onto UC if they haven't triggered a change in their benefits. They will get some limited transtitional protection from any drop in the amount of benefit they get. i.e. if the parents fail to meet their required new earnings for UC for three months, then they lose their transitional protection (they lose that more benefit money they got when claiming Tax Credits).

You can read all about the welfare reforms on sites like this
https://www.turn2us.org.uk/Benefit-guid ... de-content

The benefit calculatiors only take into account the benefit amounts for this tax year. They list the changes for next tax year in a separate place, so that claimants can prepare for these. They also list the known changes so far for the 2018/9 tax year, for the same reason.

ILR1980 · Post by **ILR1980** » Sat Nov 19, 2016 9:42 pm

Petaltop wrote:
ILR1980 wrote: You can read all about the welfare reforms on sites like this
https://www.turn2us.org.uk/Benefit-guid ... de-content

The benefit calculatiors only take into account the benefit amounts for this tax year. They list the changes for next tax year in a separate place, so that claimants can prepare for these. They also list the known changes so far for the 2018/9 tax year, for the same reason.

Thanks for details response . To be honest i dont mind any reform in benefit system . I just want more clarity and simplicity about rules and regulation of claiming benefits especially in cases where one partner is subject to immigration control while others have this status which give them resource to public funds . They confuse people when they demand from them to claim jointly as per regulation of tax credits without considering that partners could have different immigration status. We dont even know whether status of children matter in such scenario.

So now question remain the same for universal credit. Would you be able to claim universal credit if you are entitled to child tax credit and working tax credit especially when your children and partner have no resource to public funds ? would there be same exception for couple in universal credit as exist in case of tax credits right now ?

Petaltop · Post by **Petaltop** » Sun Nov 20, 2016 1:45 pm

ILR1980 wrote: So now question remain the same for universal credit. Would you be able to claim universal credit if you are entitled to child tax credit and working tax credit especially when your children and partner have no resource to public funds ? would there be same exception for couple in universal credit as exist in case of tax credits right now ?

If you haven't claimed benefits yet and are not in area where Universal Credet is in for parents, it could be up to 3 years before you are put on to UC, if you don't trigger an early move onto UC and are in one of the areas put on last. By then you might be keeping your own children anyway and your question would be moot.

The UK reverting to 'keeping your own children' is why UC is coming in as the same parents have been claiming Tax Credits, year after year. MAC reporting in 2014 on the billions being given each year from the welfare budget to 'foreign borns' via the UK's Tax Credit benefit, was the last straw and that triggered more changes announced in the 2015 budget.

ILR1980 · Post by **ILR1980** » Mon Nov 21, 2016 9:00 pm

Found this

Freedom of Information request 575/2013
Received: 5 February 2013
Published: 14 March 2013
Information request
How will Universal Credits treat a couple which consists of one British Citizen
with Children, and their non-EEA national partner/wife ETC who has “No
Recourse to Public Funds”.
DWP response
If someone who is eligible to claim Universal Credit has a partner who is a
person subject to immigration control with no recourse to public funds, only
the eligible claimant will be entitled to an award. However the partner’s
income/capital will be taken into account when assessing the means of the
whole household, and this will affect the amount of the claimant’s award.

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/s ... 5-2013.pdf

Dear Department for Work and Pensions,

The current legislation (Rule 6a and b) make exceptions for Child
Benefit and Tax Credits stating that if a member of a couple is
elegible for CB / CTC / WTC then both members of a couple are
elegible for them, and both members of the couple will be
considered as having recourse to public funds.

How will Universal Credits treat a couple which consists of one
British Citizen with children, and their non-EEA national
partner/wife ETC who has "No Recourse to Public Funds".

Will they both be deemed to be elegible for public funds when
claiming universal credits? or?... failing to treat the couple in the same manner as they are treated for tax credits will essentially be removing the rights of the couple...

Please be as clear as possible with any explainations

Yours faithfully,

Wayne Pearsall

https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/ ... rtner_wh_2

Petaltop · Post by **Petaltop** » Tue Nov 22, 2016 8:59 am

ILR1980 wrote:Found this

Freedom of Information request 575/2013
Received: 5 February 2013
Published: 14 March 2013
Information request
How will Universal Credits treat a couple which consists of one British Citizen
with Children, and their non-EEA national partner/wife ETC who has “No
Recourse to Public Funds”.
DWP response
If someone who is eligible to claim Universal Credit has a partner who is a
person subject to immigration control with no recourse to public funds, only
the eligible claimant will be entitled to an award. However the partner’s
income/capital will be taken into account when assessing the means of the
whole household, and this will affect the amount of the claimant’s award.

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/s ... 5-2013.pdf

Dear Department for Work and Pensions,

The current legislation (Rule 6a and b) make exceptions for Child
Benefit and Tax Credits stating that if a member of a couple is
elegible for CB / CTC / WTC then both members of a couple are
elegible for them, and both members of the couple will be
considered as having recourse to public funds.

How will Universal Credits treat a couple which consists of one
British Citizen with children, and their non-EEA national
partner/wife ETC who has "No Recourse to Public Funds".

Will they both be deemed to be elegible for public funds when
claiming universal credits? or?... failing to treat the couple in the same manner as they are treated for tax credits will essentially be removing the rights of the couple...

Please be as clear as possible with any explainations

Yours faithfully,

Wayne Pearsall

https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/ ... rtner_wh_2

I did read a while ago that the government wanted to make the "no recourse to publc funds" mean that, because it was unfair that some could still get access to some public funds via a partner, while for others it really did mean no public funds. For those haivng to make the 18.6 to sponsor a partner, that was set just above the poverty cap for WTCs.

Tax Credits is not a good example to use to get other benefits. Under the welfare reforms, all the anomalies of Tax Credits are being corrected to bring them in line with all the other income based welfare payments.

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