Housewife & Residency (EU-8 married to a UK born citizen)

Befudled_Bloke_2017 · Post by **Befudled_Bloke_2017** » Fri Jan 06, 2017 9:43 pm

I'm hoping this will be an easy one as the scenario is below but here goes........

So I'm looking to sort out a permanent residence card (At least) just for my wife.

The scenario is this:

- I am a British born male (British Passport & British Citizen) working full time earning a good wage and can support us and have supported us.

- My wife is Polish (Born in Poland which is a a EU8 country) and lives here in Britain with me as a housewife. She works legally but very very irregularly (via agency's and 1-2 year gaps at a time) cash flow again is fine for us. this has been the case since 2007 when she arrived to live with me. NB: she was NOT enrolled under the EU-8 worker scheme

We were both married in Poland in 2010.

We have a British born child in 2016 (British Passport & British Citizen Only & not registered in Poland - our thinging is we really dont need to as our lives are here in the UK)

We have all been resident continuously in the UK (myself and child from birth and my wife since 2007. The only time out of the country was for normal short 1-2 week holidays.

What is the best way to go to get a permanent residence for her?

which forms should I fill out and send with the whole scenario above?

There are massive holes in her work history (for being a house wife in between working).

Please please please I don't want this to be an 'EU national has the right of abode after being in a country for more than 5 years and you don't need anything to prove it' answer.

I actually really really do want to prove it with some sort of formal paperwork for her ready for the UK leaving the EU.

Thank you in advance.

CR001 · Post by **CR001** » Fri Jan 06, 2017 9:56 pm

Unless she (or through you and your employment) have held comprehensive sickness insurance (CSI) as a self sufficient person, she unfortunately does not qualify for PR. She does require 5 years of being a qualified person, i.e. exercising treaty rights (working), studying (requires CSI) or self sufficient (requires CSI).

Your citizenship is irrelevant for her PR and qualifying process.

Befudled_Bloke_2017 · Post by **Befudled_Bloke_2017** » Fri Jan 06, 2017 10:25 pm

Thank you for your time CR001

No CSI throughout the whole period unfortunately.

Would it be wise for me to therefore sort out CSI ASAP for her, (so worst case scenario starting the 5 year cycle from today) and keep building any paperwork up for the next number of years until brexit hits and again the worst case scenario and when the rules are set in stone in who can stay and who can not?' hopefully have a decent case?

Would you suggest any other path for residency status / citizenship in my scenario?

Again Thank you.

CR001 · Post by **CR001** » Fri Jan 06, 2017 10:31 pm

Befudled_Bloke_2017 wrote:Thank you for your time CR001

No CSI throughout the whole period unfortunately.

Would it be wise for me to therefore sort out CSI ASAP for her, (so worst case scenario starting the 5 year cycle from today) and keep building any paperwork up for the next number of years until brexit hits and again the worst case scenario and when the rules are set in stone in who can stay and who can not?' hopefully have a decent case? Yes, this will be a good start to get CSI in place as soon as you can.

Would you suggest any other path for residency status / citizenship in my scenario? She needs PR to apply for citizenship. Any other route that might be available will also require 5 years residence.

Again Thank you.

noajthan · Post by **noajthan** » Fri Jan 06, 2017 11:52 pm

Befudled_Bloke_2017 wrote:...

Please please please I don't want this to be an 'EU national has the right of abode after being in a country for more than 5 years and you don't need anything to prove it' answer.

This is absolutely NOT correct! Mere abode grants nothing.
And with Brexit looming it would be prudent to regularise wife's position asap: get CSI in place and shoot for EEA (QP).

Befudled_Bloke_2017 · Post by **Befudled_Bloke_2017** » Sat Jan 07, 2017 12:23 pm

Hello,

Thank you for responding back to me.

re: "get CSI in place and shoot for EEA (QP)."

With EEA (QP) as 'a self sufficient person'. Is it definitely 5 years history with CSI that she will need under her belt before she should apply for EEA (QP) as being 'self sufficient'? or can a less amount of years do it? (if not then we will gather the 5 years of history starting today)

Could I 'crowbar' the below details into the front of the EEA (QP) application?' (Effectively having 1 and half years already)
- May 2015 - She started work (So no CSI required).
- May 2016 - Still employed at the same place 'Maternity pay' started (with wage slips being sent in and paying NI contributions on this) (No CSI is required for this period unless I'm wrong?).
- Jan 2017 (today) - CSI kicks in (id rather pay CSI from now onwards as maternity pay is set to stop quite soon).

Once again Thank you!

noajthan · Post by **noajthan** » Sat Jan 07, 2017 12:37 pm

Befudled_Bloke_2017 wrote:Hello,

Thank you for responding back to me.

re: "get CSI in place and shoot for EEA (QP)."

With EEA (QP) as 'a self sufficient person'. Is it definitely 5 years history with CSI that she will need under her belt before she should apply for EEA (QP) as being 'self sufficient'? or can a less amount of years do it? (if not then we will gather the 5 years of history starting today)

Could I 'crowbar' the below details into the front of the EEA (QP) application?' (Effectively having 1 and half years already)
- May 2015 - She started work (So no CSI required).
- May 2016 - Still employed at the same place 'Maternity pay' started (with wage slips being sent in and paying NI contributions on this) (No CSI is required for this period unless I'm wrong?).
- Jan 2017 (today) - CSI kicks in (id rather pay CSI from now onwards as maternity pay is set to stop quite soon).

Once again Thank you!

The EEA QP application is for a RC. Not for the final DCPR that confirms PR status.

5 years evidence is not needed for a RC application, just current evidence.
And PR is acquired after 5 years as a qp; the DCPR is simply an optional (although useful) confirmatory document.

CSI is only needed by students and selfsufficient qualified persons, (ie only when they fall into those categories).

if wife has the history outlined then yes, getting CSI now will help keep her PR clock running by adding to the time accrued to date from 2015.
And by having CSI wife can apply for an RC using form EEA (QP) in the meantime.

Useful to have EU documentation in hand with Brexit looming.

Befudled_Bloke_2017 · Post by **Befudled_Bloke_2017** » Sat Jan 07, 2017 12:52 pm

noajthan & CR001.

You have been brilliant!

A Billion 'Thank You's' from us for your advice!

'God bless' & Wishing you immense good luck on any lottery that you might by chance play!!!

Casa · Post by **Casa** » Sat Jan 07, 2017 12:59 pm

Posting as a fellow moderator, I suspect that noajthan and CR001 would say that your thanks are the bonus ball

noajthan · Post by **noajthan** » Sat Jan 07, 2017 1:01 pm

Befudled_Bloke_2017 wrote:noajthan & CR001.

You have been brilliant!

A Billion 'Thank You's' from us for your advice!

'God bless' & Wishing you immense good luck on any lottery that you might by chance play!!!

Only the lottery of life, as we all do.

Get into mind of caseworker assessing and weighing up wife's case in HO guidance, here:
https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/s ... _clean.pdf

Being in mid-flight on the EU trajectory, your wife will have to see what transitional arrangements may be put in place for her, and the '000s in a similar position, (all yet TBC ofcourse) - but a RC can only help demonstrate her status.
Good luck.

secret.simon · Post by **secret.simon** » Sat Jan 07, 2017 8:28 pm

Befudled_Bloke_2017 wrote:Could I 'crowbar' the below details into the front of the EEA (QP) application?' (Effectively having 1 and half years already)- May 2015 - She started work (So no CSI required).-
May 2016 - Still employed at the same place 'Maternity pay' started (with wage slips being sent in and paying NI contributions on this) (No CSI is required for this period unless I'm wrong?).-
Jan 2017 (today) - CSI kicks in (id rather pay CSI from now onwards as maternity pay is set to stop quite soon).

Remember that maternity leave does not break continuity of residence ONLY IF it is bookended on both sides by either work or being a job-seeker.

If your spouse does not resume work or become a jobseeker at the end of her maternity leave, then the maternity leave will have broken her continuity of residence.

Befudled_Bloke_2017 wrote:'EU national has the right of abode after being in a country for more than 5 years and you don't need anything to prove it'

One must be careful about terminology.

All EEA citizens in the UK are lawfully present in the UK under the EU treaties.

If she meets the requirements of Directive 2004/38/EC, she will have residence, eventually leading to permanent residence.

Only British citizens (and some Commonwealth citizens wo had arrived in the UK before 1983) have the right of adobe in the UK.

Befudled_Bloke_2017 · Post by **Befudled_Bloke_2017** » Sat Jan 07, 2017 8:44 pm

Last set of questions... I promise!

So the entire thread does not need to be re-read by you... the summary up until now is as follows:

So we will be sending off for EEA (QP) for a RC for my wife (EU8- Polish) as she will be deemed as 'self sufficient'.
Marriage certificate, Her bank account and my bank account funds/history will all be sent off within the application (I am a British born citizen - working and financially taking care of us both and our British citizen child).

Question 1)
What amount should I be paying into my wife's bank account so it carries on looking on as if she is self sufficient?
This is also because maternity pay stops in few weeks time, and she wont be going back to work. (I know for her personally the more cash the better lol! ) but seriously speaking what would the case worker accept?

e.g.1 - At the moment she is getting the £139.58 per week (maternity allowance). do i match this or give her more?
e.g.2 - I'm guessing definitely more than someone who gets universal credit (Single claimant aged 25 or over: £317.82 per month) supposedly.

Question 2)
NB: I think i know know the answer to this. but here goes...

Comprehensive sickness insurance: is it definitely just her that needs it? and not a joint/family CSI policy? (bear in mind my details (British citizen and NHS covered) and my child (British citizen and NHS covered) will be within her RC application (Me as 'Cash cow') and my child (as a Child benefit 'Cash Calf').

Thank you!

Befudled_Bloke_2017 · Post by **Befudled_Bloke_2017** » Mon Jan 09, 2017 7:19 pm

Scenario: I myself am a British born citizen - working and financially taking care of us both plus our British citizen child.

Question 1) What amount should I be paying into my wife's bank account so it looks like she is self sufficient? or can I just use/show my bank account only to show the amount of cash I get for 'our family'?'

Question 2) How far do back do bank statements need to go to show history for a EEA (QP) RC ?

Question 3) Comprehensive sickness insurance: is it definitely just her that needs it? and not a joint/family CSI policy? (bear in mind my details (British citizen and NHS covered) and my child (British citizen and NHS covered)) will be within her RC application.

Thank you in advance.

Casa · Post by **Casa** » Mon Jan 09, 2017 8:44 pm

In order to show self-sufficiency your wife needs CSI. Your entitlement to the NHS doesn't qualify.

Befudled_Bloke_2017 · Post by **Befudled_Bloke_2017** » Mon Jan 09, 2017 9:17 pm

Casa wrote:In order to show self-sufficiency your wife needs CSI. Your entitlement to the NHS doesn't qualify.

Hi Casa,

Thank you for writing back.

So the answer this particular question (so there is no doubt)

Wife = Yes ... CSI required to be shown within application.
Husband (Me) = No ... CSI is not required to be shown within application (as I am British) and also entitlement to the NHS doesn't qualify for anyone.
Child (if by chance mentioned in application)= No ... CSI is not required to be shown within application (as British) and also entitlement to the NHS doesn't qualify for anyone.

Is this correct for this particular question?

Thank you,

Befudled_Bloke_2017 · Post by **Befudled_Bloke_2017** » Thu Jan 12, 2017 6:00 pm

The 'Excess' on 'Comprehensive Sickness Insurance' (CSI) - Do the HO care what amount this is?

As....
£100 excess is approx £63 p/m payment
£1000 is approx £30 p/m payment.

The insurance broker told me he cannot guarantee that the HO application would be accepted on £1000 'excess'. (which i want to go for)

Is this a lie?

Also... Has anyone else gone for a large excess and had their case with the HO successful / rejected?

Thank you,

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Housewife & Residency (EU-8 married to a UK born citizen)

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