No right of appeal against refusal of residence card to EFM

Use this section for queries concerning applications on any of the EEA series of forms, and also for applications for EEA Family Permits.

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Re: No right of appeal against refusal of residence card to

Postby Frank001 » Sat Oct 22, 2016 10:28 pm

Obie wrote:Depends on the actual basis of refusal.

If you don't understand what was said, it is the duty of lawyer to explain to you, or you demand answers.

refusal was based on interview ,we gave some answers interviewer didn't think its credible.i will ask my lawyer again about the options .nothing wrong about documentation .


BTW what about ur case any update ?
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Re: No right of appeal against refusal of residence card to

Postby Obie » Sat Oct 22, 2016 10:31 pm

Has he explained the case of Sala to you and the potential impact on your case
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Re: No right of appeal against refusal of residence card to

Postby Frank001 » Sat Oct 22, 2016 10:35 pm

Obie wrote:Has he explained the case of Sala to you and the potential impact on your case

i will ask .thats the reason i want to change my lawyer ,i wasn't sure even what can happen before i went to court !! what do u think to go for JR or fresh application or any other option i have ?my visa finished already while i applied for visa.
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Re: No right of appeal against refusal of residence card to

Postby Obie » Sat Oct 22, 2016 10:43 pm

It depends on the level and extent of the allegations agaist you.

I was told by the Senior Presenting officer that there are arrangements in place for those who had permission to appeal to the UT, but appeal could not proceed. However he did not say what it was.

For people in your case i find it unfair.

I have sent pre-action protocol. I shall update tribunal of what they say.
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Postby Koukii Mea » Sun Oct 23, 2016 8:23 pm

Please help !
Am 20 years old i applied eea family permit , as my father he is french , and am from tunisia , i applied as going with my father for one week holiday to the uk , i just want to know if they can refuse me , cuz in guv.uk website they saying children under 21 they dont need to submit finance part , help please lot of stress here -_-
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Re: No right of appeal against refusal of residence card to

Postby Frank001 » Sun Oct 23, 2016 11:33 pm

Obie wrote:It depends on the level and extent of the allegations agaist you.

I was told by the Senior Presenting officer that there are arrangements in place for those who had permission to appeal to the UT, but appeal could not proceed. However he did not say what it was.

For people in your case i find it unfair.

I have sent pre-action protocol. I shall update tribunal of what they say.


Hi obie I have a question why didn't judge just dismissed my case while he has known already about sala ?what was the purpose of asking questions?
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Re: No right of appeal against refusal of residence card to

Postby mohsin1 » Mon Oct 24, 2016 1:25 am

Frank001 wrote:
Obie wrote:It depends on the level and extent of the allegations agaist you.

I was told by the Senior Presenting officer that there are arrangements in place for those who had permission to appeal to the UT, but appeal could not proceed. However he did not say what it was.

For people in your case i find it unfair.

I have sent pre-action protocol. I shall update tribunal of what they say.


Hi obie I have a question why didn't judge just dismissed my case while he has known already about sala ?what was the purpose of asking questions?


frank001 i had a conversation with my lawyer he said there is a new poxy come judge ask listen your case and give you a actual finding either postive or negative but remeber they gonna refuse you but postive finding with refusl make you strong on JR.
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Re: No right of appeal against refusal of residence card to

Postby Obie » Mon Oct 24, 2016 6:46 pm

In my experience so far, not all judges are making findings, and Home Office are not bound per sa to accept those finding, but it works in the sense that one can use it, in the case of a Upper Tribunal to say to the Home Office, look a judge at the Upper Tribunal said this about my case. If i went for a JR, his colleague is hardly going to go against him or her.
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Re: No right of appeal against refusal of residence card to

Postby mohsin1 » Tue Oct 25, 2016 8:49 pm

hi obie..is sala case effect on DeNovo hearing?
my De NoVo hearing last time had adjourned on july.
and new date for de novo in december.
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Re: No right of appeal against refusal of residence card to

Postby Obie » Tue Oct 25, 2016 10:38 pm

Pretty much so. The FTT are bound by the law as interpreted by the UT.

A De Novo hearing cannot proceed if the UT has ruled that no right of appeal is conferred on an Extended family member.
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Re: No right of appeal against refusal of residence card to

Postby avjones » Wed Oct 26, 2016 12:03 am

Sala is an extremely.... strange..... decision.

However, in practical terms, dealing with it:

1. Any FTT Judge / HOPO aware of it will raise it, meaning there is no jurisdiction. In my experience, and having asked in Chambers, this is happening almost all the time. So if there is an outstanding appeal you must anticipate that, unless and until the law changes, the appeals will be struck out.

2. Of those Upper Tribunal cases I've heard of, again, jurisdiction has been declined.

3. I gather than Sala will not be taken to the Court of Appeal itself, by either side, but of course it is HIGHLY likely to go zooming upwards on another similar case quickly.

4. New EFM cases are still often being sent out with appeal forms. The HO have updated their guidance on their website, but in several cases in the past week I've heard of appeal forms being sent anyway.

5. It makes it MUCH more important to do a good application in the first place.

6. The only remedy for the moment will be Judicial Review, not appeal.
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People should always consider obtaining professional advice about their own particular circumstances.
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Re: No right of appeal against refusal of residence card to

Postby avjones » Wed Oct 26, 2016 12:20 am

Obie wrote:Please desist from writing in capital letters.

I am not sure if I can give more than I have already given.

It is a shame in your case, that matter is at Ftt. Due to the fact that mine was at the Upper Tribunal with permission, I am able to appeal to the court of appeal.

If my argument succeeds, it will benefit you aswell.


You will be able to challenge via JR if the FTT refuse to hear the case.


If your UT Judge says in writing that, but for Sala, he would have allowed the appeal, wouldn't a fresh application be better / quicker / cheaper?
Amanda Jones

I am not, and cannot, offer legal advice to particular people. I can only discuss general areas of immigration law.

People should always consider obtaining professional advice about their own particular circumstances.
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Re: No right of appeal against refusal of residence card to

Postby Obie » Wed Oct 26, 2016 12:32 am

No a fresh application will not matter as the Secretary of State may say they are not bound by it , as there was no jurisdiction.

I have indeed sent a PAP and applied for permission to the court of appeal, and also new application.

This individual has been treated so badly buy the Home Office, to the extent that, i have no intention to be complacent. All cards are on the table.
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Re: No right of appeal against refusal of residence card to

Postby Obie » Wed Oct 26, 2016 12:37 am

For people whose cases are at the Upper Tribunal, i am doubtful that JR is an option.

In law there is a remedy to appeal to the court of appeal, the Home office may seek to resist it on the basis of the availability of an alternate remedy.
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Re: No right of appeal against refusal of residence card to

Postby vinny » Wed Oct 26, 2016 12:58 am

avjones wrote:Sala is an extremely.... strange..... decision.


Yes. It's strange that they only appointed a third counsel, who was specifically instructed to argue that there was no right of appeal. Then the judges decided that she was indeed correct and there was no right of appeal…

Why didn't they appoint a forth counsel who was specifically instructed to argue that there was a right of appeal, so they could consider both sides of the argument, without bias?
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Re: No right of appeal against refusal of residence card to

Postby Obie » Wed Oct 26, 2016 1:05 am

It was like a kangaroo court. There was a total breakdown of fair procedure. It is clear the Upper Tribunal was seeking to play the role of the legislatur . This decision has the potential of bringing the tribunal system into disrepute.

One thing that keep the up at night is the believe that i may be able to play a role in having this unfair judgement rescinded.
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Re: No right of appeal against refusal of residence card to

Postby avjones » Wed Oct 26, 2016 1:20 am

Obie wrote:No a fresh application will not matter as the Secretary of State may say they are not bound by it , as there was no jurisdiction.



A finding of fact by the judge that he would have allowed the appeal but for Sala and jurisdiction would create a strong irrationality challenge in the event the HO rejected the application.
Amanda Jones

I am not, and cannot, offer legal advice to particular people. I can only discuss general areas of immigration law.

People should always consider obtaining professional advice about their own particular circumstances.
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Re: No right of appeal against refusal of residence card to

Postby avjones » Wed Oct 26, 2016 1:21 am

It's extremely strange for all sorts of reasons, including those mentioned above by Vinnie and Obie.

Obie, is your recent UT case reported?
Amanda Jones

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People should always consider obtaining professional advice about their own particular circumstances.
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Re: No right of appeal against refusal of residence card to

Postby Obie » Wed Oct 26, 2016 1:32 am

My views are aligned to yours. We will see, the Senior Presenting officer at the hearing indicated that provisions have been made for people affected , who would have succeeded.

However within 2 weeks the individual was approached and asked to present himself for ETD. I consider this approach in a very serious light, and hence the subsequent steps i decided to take.

The Upper Tribunal judge was upset about the decision in Sala, he mentioned 2 decision in the regulations which involves the exercise of discretionary powers, but the question of whether an appeal right exist has never been an issue.

He acknowledged correctly , and accepted my submission that he is not bound by Sala and could choose not to follow it, but he then appear to fall into error, by saying it is a decision where the deputy president was part of the panel and therefore he will not follow my submission.

He then dismissed my appeal for lack of jurisdiction. To say i am upset will be an understatement. I am furious. It is a total outrage.
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Re: No right of appeal against refusal of residence card to

Postby avjones » Wed Oct 26, 2016 1:34 am

I think your ire is better directed at Ockleton than your own UT judge, but there's plenty to spare all round. It's a complete mess.
Amanda Jones

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