No right of appeal against refusal of residence card to EFM

Use this section for queries concerning applications on any of the EEA series of forms, and also for applications for EEA Family Permits.

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Re: No right of appeal against refusal of residence card to

Postby avjones » Wed Oct 26, 2016 1:36 am

Obie wrote:My views are aligned to yours. We will see, the Senior Presenting officer at the hearing indicated that provisions have been made to people affected , who would have succeeded.

However within 2 weeks the individual was approached and asked to present himself for ETD. I consider in a very serious light, and hence the subsequent steps i decided to take.


Watch out for the whole "non-suspensive" thing with ETD, though. Even if your appeal is pending before the Court of Appeal, the (recent) non-suspensive idea means no automatic protection from removal.
Amanda Jones

I am not, and cannot, offer legal advice to particular people. I can only discuss general areas of immigration law.

People should always consider obtaining professional advice about their own particular circumstances.
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Re: No right of appeal against refusal of residence card to

Postby Obie » Wed Oct 26, 2016 1:42 am

I am upset with him because he acknowledged that unlike an Ftt judge, he is not bound by Sala, he acknowledged the shortcomings in Sala, but then do something else.
If you read the determination you will think the individual has succeeded until you hit the penultimate paragraph, then you get more furious, as the reasoning and discussion is inconsistent with the conclusion.

So strange. If this is what being a judge entails, then i clearly dont aspire to be one.
You haven't lived today successfully, unless you've done something for someone who can never repay you.'
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Re: No right of appeal against refusal of residence card to

Postby avjones » Wed Oct 26, 2016 2:06 am

Is it reported?

I certainly never want to be a judge.
Amanda Jones

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People should always consider obtaining professional advice about their own particular circumstances.
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Re: No right of appeal against refusal of residence card to

Postby Obie » Wed Oct 26, 2016 10:19 am

avjones wrote:Watch out for the whole "non-suspensive" thing with ETD, though. Even if your appeal is pending before the Court of Appeal, the (recent) non-suspensive idea means no automatic protection from removal.


I understand that, but in light of the comments of the Upper Tribunal, and the fact that the EEA national has Permanent Residence, I am confident that we can mount a strong convention right claim against removal.

I also believe the Court of Appeal, which has jurisdiction of the matter will issue a stay, in the light of the views expressed by the Upper Tribunal Judge.
You haven't lived today successfully, unless you've done something for someone who can never repay you.'
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Re: No right of appeal against refusal of residence card to

Postby Obie » Wed Oct 26, 2016 10:21 am

avjones wrote:Is it reported?

I certainly never want to be a judge.



It may be on the unreported decision. It will make no sense for the reporting committee to approve my case for reporting.
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Re: No right of appeal against refusal of residence card to

Postby avjones » Wed Oct 26, 2016 3:52 pm

Obie wrote:
avjones wrote:Watch out for the whole "non-suspensive" thing with ETD, though. Even if your appeal is pending before the Court of Appeal, the (recent) non-suspensive idea means no automatic protection from removal.


I understand that, but in light of the comments of the Upper Tribunal, and the fact that the EEA national has Permanent Residence, I am confident that we can mount a strong convention right claim against removal.

I also believe the Court of Appeal, which has jurisdiction of the matter will issue a stay, in the light of the views expressed by the Upper Tribunal Judge.


I think you'd have a very good application for a stay in your case.

Good luck.
Amanda Jones

I am not, and cannot, offer legal advice to particular people. I can only discuss general areas of immigration law.

People should always consider obtaining professional advice about their own particular circumstances.
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Re: No right of appeal against refusal of residence card to

Postby Frank001 » Wed Oct 26, 2016 4:26 pm

Obie wrote:I am upset with him because he acknowledged that unlike an Ftt judge, he is not bound by Sala, he acknowledged the shortcomings in Sala, but then do something else.
If you read the determination you will think the individual has succeeded until you hit the penultimate paragraph, then you get more furious, as the reasoning and discussion is inconsistent with the conclusion.

So strange. If this is what being a judge entails, then i clearly dont aspire to be one.

it is really frustrating .i don't know what will be the outcomes for my case its in FTT.judge seemed positive on my case .it is going to be refused because of sala or they have options ?
i got my appeal right and date before this rules what about this one year i was waiting ?
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Re: No right of appeal against refusal of residence card to

Postby Obie » Wed Oct 26, 2016 4:46 pm

In all honesty, i dont think the judge will do anything other than dismiss the appeal for lack of jurisdiction.

It is unfortunate, but i have not found a case that have succeeded since Sala.
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Re: No right of appeal against refusal of residence card to

Postby Frank001 » Wed Oct 26, 2016 5:09 pm

Obie wrote:In all honesty, i dont think the judge will do anything other than dismiss the appeal for lack of jurisdiction.

It is unfortunate, but i have not found a case that have succeeded since Sala.

what is the better option fresh application or JR or any other option?
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Re: No right of appeal against refusal of residence card to

Postby mohsin1 » Wed Oct 26, 2016 5:18 pm

Frank001 you just have wait only one year for hearing.
its my 4th hearing so think ho w long i had wait.this is my 4th time apearing on the court at novembr..
this is a adjournd hearing which is prevously postone due tosone reason my last hearing which was adjournd on july when there is appeal right and now when i go for a hearing now the rule is no right of appeal...
i was on court since 2014..
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Re: No right of appeal against refusal of residence card to

Postby Frank001 » Wed Oct 26, 2016 7:17 pm

mohsin1 wrote:Frank001 you just have wait only one year for hearing.
its my 4th hearing so think ho w long i had wait.this is my 4th time apearing on the court at novembr..
this is a adjournd hearing which is prevously postone due tosone reason my last hearing which was adjournd on july when there is appeal right and now when i go for a hearing now the rule is no right of appeal...
i was on court since 2014..

sorry to hear that .did u apply for unmarried partner visa ?what r u going to do now ?
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Re: No right of appeal against refusal of residence card to

Postby Obie » Wed Oct 26, 2016 9:59 pm

Sala case comes in different shapes and size.

It all depends on the case.

My Upper Tribunal was relationship of convenience , which the UT said was non-sense, as the evidence does not support the FTT decision to side with the Home Office.

It depends on the nature of your case. If it was lack of treaty rights or supporting documents, then perhaps a new application.
You haven't lived today successfully, unless you've done something for someone who can never repay you.'
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Re: No right of appeal against refusal of residence card to

Postby avjones » Wed Oct 26, 2016 10:28 pm

I spent a good percentage of my day talking about Sala. grrrrrr. So many clients who were (perfectly properly) told one thing, and now, months or years later, it's all totally changed with no warning. It doesn't seem fair or right.
Amanda Jones

I am not, and cannot, offer legal advice to particular people. I can only discuss general areas of immigration law.

People should always consider obtaining professional advice about their own particular circumstances.
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Re: No right of appeal against refusal of residence card to

Postby Obie » Wed Oct 26, 2016 10:40 pm

Absolutely. This victim i am assisting has spend over 8k on his case. Many of his previous lawyers say don't appeal , I did not agree, as my policy is always to challenge claims of sham relationships. He was happy when I permission was granted and the comments made about the grounds by the permission judge. Then came sala. I could not find the mouth with which to tell him. However I sum up courage to tell him before he hears it in court.

I feel it is totally unacceptable. After 10 years. Some pepole have spent thousands, and then you say no appeal. Unbelievable.
You haven't lived today successfully, unless you've done something for someone who can never repay you.'
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Re: No right of appeal against refusal of residence card to

Postby avjones » Wed Oct 26, 2016 11:51 pm

there are *some* sham relationships which shouldn't really be appealed. Some. Where they essentially don't know each other, for example.

I once came across a very rare prosecution in which the "wife" was unable to identify her "husband" in a photo. I personally wouldn't have appealed in that one.....
Amanda Jones

I am not, and cannot, offer legal advice to particular people. I can only discuss general areas of immigration law.

People should always consider obtaining professional advice about their own particular circumstances.
avjones
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Re: No right of appeal against refusal of residence card to

Postby Obie » Thu Oct 27, 2016 12:17 am

There are many genuine couples aswell that are called scam.

I know a couple with a beautiful daughter. At the time of the application they had just lost their second child through still birth. Notwithstanding that, the fine couple were accuses of being in a marriage of convenience.
You haven't lived today successfully, unless you've done something for someone who can never repay you.'
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Re: No right of appeal against refusal of residence card to

Postby avjones » Thu Oct 27, 2016 12:44 am

Sadly, I've come across that too. In fact, I've even heard the phrase "a child of convenience" used. Which is just disgusting.
Amanda Jones

I am not, and cannot, offer legal advice to particular people. I can only discuss general areas of immigration law.

People should always consider obtaining professional advice about their own particular circumstances.
avjones
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Re: No right of appeal against refusal of residence card to

Postby mohsin1 » Thu Oct 27, 2016 3:17 am

Frank001 i have efm my unlce supporting me with that case we fought with HO and when the times come to give him my All the remaing dcoumnets actuslly first i won FTT tthen set aside from UP then they sent me again to FTT WHwhic is denovo hearing my denovo hearing was july 2016 unfortunalty my uncle had not on this country due to his operation judge postpone my denovo hearing now my next date was coming november..but suddenly no right of appeal last attemp from FTT judge ask HO to if they need any other docmunets then tell him to bring on next hearing or his documnets are complte? then HO said we dont need more documents because his documnets are now been complted both judge and HO agreed to postone hesring..
but now there is no right of appeal and my all documnets are compte i dont know what is the best option for me to do either go for fresh appliction or JR.
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Re: No right of appeal against refusal of residence card to

Postby Frank001 » Thu Oct 27, 2016 10:23 am

Obie wrote:Sala case comes in different shapes and size.

It all depends on the case.

My Upper Tribunal was relationship of convenience , which the UT said was non-sense, as the evidence does not support the FTT decision to side with the Home Office.

It depends on the nature of your case. If it was lack of treaty rights or supporting documents, then perhaps a new application.


Hi Obie today I got appeal result, it is dismissed because of salary. Given right to appeal UTT. Go for it or make fresh application?
One point is this

" This matter was always going to have to go back to the respondent for the exercise under Regulation 17(4) to be performed. Under the new dispensation, the only route by which this can happen is through the appellant making a fresh application. If I had jurisdiction to do so, I would find the appellant and the sponsor to be credible witnesses whose account of a genuine and durable relationship is supported by a mass of documentary evidence, much of it new from the respondent's perspective. The asserted discrepancies largely melt away when considered in the context of the interviews as a whole and/or in the context of the surrounding evidence, and any that remain are not of such import or significance as to sustain the suspicion that the relationship is a sham"

What does it mean? Make fresh applications or UTT
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Re: No right of appeal against refusal of residence card to

Postby Frank001 » Thu Oct 27, 2016 10:25 am

Frank001 wrote:
Obie wrote:Sala case comes in different shapes and size.

It all depends on the case.

My Upper Tribunal was relationship of convenience , which the UT said was non-sense, as the evidence does not support the FTT decision to side with the Home Office.

It depends on the nature of your case. If it was lack of treaty rights or supporting documents, then perhaps a new application.


Hi Obie today I got appeal result, it is dismissed because of sala


. Given right to appeal UTT. Go for it or make fresh application?
One point is this

" This matter was always going to have to go back to the respondent for the exercise under Regulation 17(4) to be performed. Under the new dispensation, the only route by which this can happen is through the appellant making a fresh application. If I had jurisdiction to do so, I would find the appellant and the sponsor to be credible witnesses whose account of a genuine and durable relationship is supported by a mass of documentary evidence, much of it new from the respondent's perspective. The asserted discrepancies largely melt away when considered in the context of the interviews as a whole and/or in the context of the surrounding evidence, and any that remain are not of such import or significance as to sustain the suspicion that the relationship is a sham"

What does it mean? Make fresh applications or UTT
Frank001
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Posts: 26
Joined: Mon Jul 06, 2015 10:09 pm

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