Taking my non EEA dependent father to Ireland

Hi All,

I have had tremendous advice from all of you in the past. I have had a few weeks to think over my situation and I think with Brexit fast approaching I should attempt the surinder singh route.

I am British and my non-EEA fathers pp is with the HO for a discretionary leave application.

I can get a job in Ireland. But then I am planning to take my father with me via ferry to Northern Ireland to Ireland. This can be done without a passport as NI and Britain are the same country and there is no border control between NI and Ireland.

The question is that if I get my father to Ireland some how, would they entertain an EEA family dependent application or would they declare my father to be illegal in their country?

Many Thanks,

What proof of identity will he/you on his behalf present to the Irish authorities?

Father may still need to show id at some stage of journey.
How will he do that?

An SS gig via Eire by someone who has previoualy declared an intention to settle in UK may not fly in light of recent changes to EEA Regs (yet to be challenged).

Is father actually dependent on you?
Do you have evidence to back your case?

It wouldnt be his passport as its still with the UK HO however it would be a national ID document that proves his nationality and also relationship to me as his son.

BClassBritish wrote:It wouldnt be his passport as its still with the UK HO however it would be a national ID document that proves his nationality and also relationship to me as his son.

And is father dependent on you for his essential daily needs?
Can he prove it?

noajthan wrote:Father may still need to show id at some stage of journey.
How will he do that?

An SS gig via Eire by someone who has previoualy declared an intention to settle in UK may not fly in light of recent changes to EEA Regs (yet to be challenged).

Is father actually dependent on you?
Do you have evidence to back your case?

I have proof that I have been financially supporting him for the past few years. He does own a house back home but its been practically abandoned since he moved to the UK.

SS ie bring him back to the UK will be step 2. I may not even go for that option and just settle in Ireland and ask my wife to come over and join me over there as well. Post brexit Theresa May's UK has become fairly discriminatory anyway.

Atleast my father will be legal in a country that isnt 10k miles away from Europe and will have entitlement to healthcare etc. I am stuck between my wife and my father. Wife is European and isnt willing to move to third world and father isnt allowed to stay in Europe. I have nightmares about my father being murdered in the detention centres of UK immigration system. At this point I am contemplating to leave britain permanently out of desperation:P

The question is would this work?

BClassBritish wrote:It wouldnt be his passport as its still with the UK HO however it would be a national ID document that proves his nationality and also relationship to me as his son.

Speaking from experience Ireland will not accept a national ID card for non-eu applicants as they tend to stamp passports with permission to remain.

When they invite the non-eu applicant to register for temp stamp the letter will insist you produce a passport unless you can give a satisfactory explanation of the circumstances that prevent you from doing so.

Do you have a satisfactory reason you could provide?

I would advise you to get the passport back from HO if you can or if you are able to make it to Ireland, see if the embassy is willing to issue a new passport.

Good luck.

mkhan2525,

I want to apply for an EEA family permit for my father. As far as I understand this can be done with a national ID card apart from pp. Please correct me if I am wrong?

Thx

BClassBritish wrote:mkhan2525,

I want to apply for an EEA family permit for my father. As far as I understand this can be done with a national ID card apart from pp. Please correct me if I am wrong?

Thx

Not a non-EU ID card. A non-EU cit requires a passport. The national ID card requirement is the EU citizens ID card that can be used to support dependents application.

And applications to the embassy of your father's home country for a second passport may also be hamstrung by the usual (not all embassies insist on it) requirement for proof of valid leave in the UK.

The only way I see for you is for your father to return to his home country and then fly back to join you in Ireland or other EU country (Spain, Portugal and Cyprus may be more agreeable weather-wise).

He isnt in a condition to be put on a long flight and then live there by himself for months while I try to apply for his visa.

Mission Ireland is easier because I will lie him down in my car back seat and do a few pit stops at hotels etc on my way.

This is absolute hell. I have not seen the inside of a police station in my life and now I am planning to do people smuggling because of the British Govt to whom I have paid a lottt of tax in the past decade

There is 2 categories of humans in Britain EEA and non-EEA. Non-EEA equates to sub human. Just like Nazzis used to hate the "others".

BClassBritish wrote:There is 2 categories of humans in Britain EEA and non-EEA. Non-EEA equates to sub human. Just like Nazzis used to hate the "others".

Calm down, dear.

Migrants, both EEA and non-EEA, are welcome and indeed required for their skills. A skills shortage is an imperative reason for immigration. Chain immigration is not.

BClassBritish wrote:He isnt in a condition to be put on a long flight and then live there by himself for months while I try to apply for his visa.

I wonder if the Home Office would return his passport at border control if you legally remove him from the UK, to say, France. All they are interested in is that he leaves the UK, where his status is indeterminate. As the French border control is at Dover, you could drive down with him there and argue with the French authorities into issuing him a Family Permit on the spot. Something worth exploring with the Home Office perhaps.

Secretsimon wrote: Migrants, both EEA and non-EEA, are welcome and indeed required for their skills.

Welcome where exactly.

Are we talking about the same migrants that the Home Secretary mentioned at the Conservative party conference, that employers will be named and sHamed for employing, or is there another migrant.

I am slightly confused. Sorry for going off topic a bit.

secret.simon wrote:

BClassBritish wrote:There is 2 categories of humans in Britain EEA and non-EEA. Non-EEA equates to sub human. Just like Nazzis used to hate the "others".

Calm down, dear.

Migrants, both EEA and non-EEA, are welcome and indeed required for their skills. A skills shortage is an imperative reason for immigration. Chain immigration is not.

BClassBritish wrote:He isnt in a condition to be put on a long flight and then live there by himself for months while I try to apply for his visa.

I wonder if the Home Office would return his passport at border control if you legally remove him from the UK, to say, France. All they are interested in is that he leaves the UK, where his status is indeterminate. As the French border control is at Dover, you could drive down with him there and argue with the French authorities into issuing him a Family Permit on the spot. Something worth exploring with the Home Office perhaps.

I understand that you are trying to help me without charging any money and I really really appreciate that. However this womans case is right before me as I have been signing all the petitions they send out from day one.

"Irene Nel, 73, came to visit family in Bristol on a tourist visa in 2012, but later became ill with kidney failure.
She has dialysis three times a week and her daughter, who moved to the UK in 1999, said she will die if sent back.
The Home Office said "all cases were carefully considered" but Mrs Nel cannot remain in the UK."
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-bristol-36027822

The Nazzis also used to put jews on trains ...

For me if this woman cannot stay here in the UK then I do not see a chance in hell for my father. People who immigrate have families as well and some times circumstances dictate that they keep their loved ones with them. If only EEA are allowed to have dependents then non-EEA automatically become the others. We just need you for your skills but when it comes to allowing some one you love into our country we will throw obstacles in your path. There is countless posts on these forums about how HO make up reasons to get rid of the spouses and parents and children of non EEA animals/us.

This whole thing has left me a mental wreck .... Now I look at Europeans and think superior masters. Honestly my whole mentality has changed. I feel like if I am around Europeans they will report me to the HO even though I am British citizen myself. I hide things from my wife fearing she will think I am scamming her for absolutely no reason. I struggle at work if I am around all English colleagues. 5 years ago I used to have arguments with my own folk about how equal and fair this country was and if you think there is discrimination then you are the one who is wrong.

I can go on and on. Sorry I am leaving now.
Thx

Don't be angry. Anger solves nothing. It could be said that Brexit is the result is caused by people's anger at being unable to control the changes in their society. But is that anger positive or destructive?

Don't give up hope. A Home Office report suggests that while only 6% of the ADR applications succeed on initial application, a further 16% succeed on appeal.

The Home Affairs Committee in the Commons has launched an inquiry into the immigration policy, in very broad terms and has invited written submissions, which anybody is free to submit. The story of your father's stay in the UK has a certain pathos and I suggest that you write to them.

The Home office does invite "any further information and evidence about their (the current ADR rules) operation, impact and possible alternatives" to be sent to FamilyOpsPolicy@homeoffice.gsi.gov.uk, but keep it calm and polite. Remember that with emails, the Delete button only requires one click. Make your email/message compelling, not a rant.

Also, liaise with JCWI and Britcits, which campaign on family immigration issues.

I would strongly suggest avoiding references to the National Socialists and/or other far right parties/organisations in your submissions and correspondence in future.

BClassBritish wrote:This is absolute hell. I have not seen the inside of a police station in my life and now I am planning to do people smuggling because of the British Govt to whom I have paid a lottt of tax in the past decade

There is 2 categories of humans in Britain EEA and non-EEA

This will be the case in any EU country too.

Clearly simply paying tax does not pay for special treatment let alone the right to people-smuggle; there is no connection.

There is no concept of extended family sponsorship in UK law.
In EU law family-related migration is primarily for the benefit of the Union citizen not for the dependent. And some people in UK have decided none of us are to participate in EU anymore.

Please note that all nationalities except Irish or British require passports. Non-EU nationals should check with the British or Irish embassy before travelling as they may also need a visa. Passengers who turn up at our ports without valid documentation may not be allowed to enter either Ireland or Britain.

http://www.irishferries.com/uk-en/faq/p ... ification/

I'm a citizen of a non-EU country, do I need to do anything else?

You must check that you have all the documents required for entry into Ireland or Britain or Holland, otherwise you may be refused. If this happens we may be fined, and you will be liable for that fine under the Terms of Business.

http://www.stenaline.co.uk/FAQs/passpor ... need-to-do

Once you have addressed lack of passport there are again options to travel and, presumably, some degree of options as to who could accompany father (and to where).

Okay thanks. I had to walk away as this whole situation is stressing me the hell out.

HO throws all these communications in garbage. I am not going to waste time with these ****.

My fathers pp is expired so even if HO some how release it I have to get a new one made for him.

I was thinking about moving to Ireland because there might be a way to get there without a passport.

Do you know how I could contact the HO? Or if I could discuss my case with some one over there?

Many Thanks,

In the first instance, have you contacted your MP? If possible, meet him at a surgery and request him/her to take up your case with the Home Office and indeed, if possible, table a question in the House.

I took the ferry from Holyhead many times when I was working in Ireland, only doc-checked once, and searched once. Every other time nothing.

You pays yer money and takes yer choice...

However I would not like to be caught in Eire with no documents, with the Garda Siochana walking the streets. (well, in their cars).

Remember to for SS to work, if this is an SS thing, lost track a bit, the whole family has to move lock, stock and smoking barrel too....

I dont care about Surinder Singh any more. Happy to settle down in a European country that allows my father to stay with me.

BClassBritish wrote:I dont care about Surinder Singh any more. Happy to settle down in a European country that allows my father to stay with me.

What about back home? Could you now relocate?

Unfortunately cant go back home as my wife is European and doesnt want to relocate to 3rd world.

Wanderer wrote:
However I would not like to be caught in Eire with no documents, with the Garda Siochana walking the streets. (well, in their cars).

.

My Experience with the Garda have been very positive in the years i was in Ireland. In every institution there are bad folks, but i think the Irish Garda are pretty cool.

I can say my dealing with Garda are more productive than UKVI. I will not make you portray them in a negative light.

My mother travelled from local airport to Belfast via easy jet and her passport wasn't checked.

We also travelled on ferry couple of times between Liverpool and Belfast with no passport check.

I suggest try to get a new passport from Pakistan Embassy and go to ROI.

I love ROI since I moved and your father will have no issue getting EU4FAM as long as you are resident and working genuinely. It's as simple as that.

Go for it before it's too late.

zahmed05 wrote:My mother travelled from local airport to Belfast via easy jet and her passport wasn't checked.

We also travelled on ferry couple of times between Liverpool and Belfast with no passport check.

I suggest try to get a new passport from Pakistan Embassy and go to ROI.

I love ROI since I moved and your father will have no issue getting EU4FAM as long as you are resident and working genuinely. It's as simple as that.

Go for it before it's too late.

Did you mother have a British Visa when she travelled?

There are random checks at Belfast International which is where Easy Jet lands. So on arriving and departing you may meet an immigration officer that can ask purpose of travelling.

But there is no fixed post. City Airport is quiet, but I have met UKVI once there over a 6 months period travelling through there.

They have intelligence based cooperation between Dublin Belfast and Scotland, that usually work with airlines, so you have no fixed post but if intelligence is passed, they may be there.

If operation Gull is in force, you may likely encounter an immigration officer there.