ESC

Click the "allow" button if you want to receive important news and updates from immigrationboards.com


Immigrationboards.com: Immigration, work visa and work permit discussion board

Welcome to immigrationboards.com!

Login Register Do not show

Petition EU // visa-free-travel for EU-Family members

Immigration to European countries, don't post UK or Ireland related topics!

Moderators: Casa, push, JAJ, ca.funke, Amber, zimba, vinny, Obie, EUsmileWEallsmile, batleykhan, meself2, geriatrix, John, ChetanOjha, archigabe, Administrator

86ti
Diamond Member
Posts: 2760
Joined: Wed Nov 21, 2007 7:07 am

Post by 86ti » Fri Oct 24, 2008 12:26 pm

charles4u wrote:Well his residence card most clearly state RESIDENCE CARD FOR FAMILY MEMBERS and its mostly 5 yrs so I wouldnt know why some countries are giving it different names e.g EU4fam and so on, The one I have only states RESIDENCE CARD FOR FAMILY MEMBERS and its all translated in Romania,English and French. Not Kabisky or whatever Poland calls theirs.
The name doesn't matter. The question is if the Polish authorities issued the RC based on Article 10 of Directive 2004/38/EC or not. Only the holders of a 'Article 10 residence card' can be treated under EU regulations otherwise national law must be applied.

I think in elmer's case that means either:
a) the Polish wife has exercised her treaty rights earlier, e.g. she was in another EEA member state to work and live there and then returned under the Surinder Singh ruling. But I am not sure if EU regulations would apply if she had married after her return (must treaty rights be exercised together?). Or
b) she provides cross-boarder services (whatever that means)

charles4u
Member of Standing
Posts: 369
Joined: Mon Jul 28, 2008 6:33 pm

Post by charles4u » Fri Oct 24, 2008 12:36 pm

86ti wrote:
charles4u wrote:Well his residence card most clearly state RESIDENCE CARD FOR FAMILY MEMBERS and its mostly 5 yrs so I wouldnt know why some countries are giving it different names e.g EU4fam and so on, The one I have only states RESIDENCE CARD FOR FAMILY MEMBERS and its all translated in Romania,English and French. Not Kabisky or whatever Poland calls theirs.
The name doesn't matter. The question is if the Polish authorities issued the RC based on Article 10 of Directive 2004/38/EC or not. Only the holders of a 'Article 10 residence card' can be treated under EU regulations otherwise national law must be applied.

I think in elmer's case that means either:
a) the Polish wife has exercised her treaty rights earlier, e.g. she was in another EEA member state to work and live there and then returned under the Surinder Singh ruling. But I am not sure if EU regulations would apply if she had married after her return (must treaty rights be exercised together?). Or
b) she provides cross-boarder services (whatever that means)

Friend I dont think issuing is under any authority, So far the issuing country is a EU member and its issued under marraige or just temporary residence. So the one issued under marraige is ussually named or newly named RESIDENCE CARD FOR FAMILY MEMBERS simple!!!

So i dont understand what or under EU law or articel bla bla bla..EU is EU and what they Issue is valid in the same way..its just the names that are different and causing problems..
Charles4u

86ti
Diamond Member
Posts: 2760
Joined: Wed Nov 21, 2007 7:07 am

Post by 86ti » Fri Oct 24, 2008 12:47 pm

charles4u wrote:Friend I dont think issuing is under any authority, So far the issuing country is a EU member and its issued under marraige or just temporary residence. So the one issued under marraige is ussually named or newly named RESIDENCE CARD FOR FAMILY MEMBERS simple!!!

So i dont understand what or under EU law or articel bla bla bla..EU is EU and what they Issue is valid in the same way..its just the names that are different and causing problems..
I am sorry to say but I think you fell into they same trap as some others. There is a clear though maybe subtle distinction as to when EU law applies and when national law applies. Just go and reread the sticky thread about the Directive (you posted their frequently so I assume you know where to find it).

charles4u
Member of Standing
Posts: 369
Joined: Mon Jul 28, 2008 6:33 pm

Post by charles4u » Fri Oct 24, 2008 12:55 pm

Well maybe ..if u say so then I agree

I didnt know this and I thought so far its EU then anything issued as residence should be issued under the law and covered by EU.

Well then maybe his card is not valid enough or so, But the fact his married with an EU citizen, then authomatically will be giving the RESIDENCE CARD FOR FAMILY i guess and it should be definately the same so far the country is a EU member state.
Charles4u

86ti
Diamond Member
Posts: 2760
Joined: Wed Nov 21, 2007 7:07 am

Post by 86ti » Fri Oct 24, 2008 1:06 pm

charles4u wrote:But the fact his married with an EU citizen, then authomatically will be giving the RESIDENCE CARD FOR FAMILY i guess and it should be definately the same so far the country is a EU member state.
I am afraid that may not be true. I can tell you that Austria or Germany for example make this distiction in law, i.e. two different residence permits are issued depending on which law applies (in short: nationals who have never lived in another EEA country and marry non-EEA nationals will be subject to national law only, which in Austria is much stricter than the EU law, and naturally they can not benefit from the Directive.)

Does Romania have only one type of RC for family members? I would be very suprised if so. If other countries get notice of that they may object to this practice.

Richard66
Senior Member
Posts: 745
Joined: Sat Aug 25, 2007 8:17 pm
Location: Italy

Post by Richard66 » Fri Oct 24, 2008 1:43 pm

Does Romania have only one type of RC for family members? I would be very suprised if so. If other countries get notice of that they may object to this practice.
Not all countries make this distiction: Italy and Spain definitively do not and family members receive the very same residence card, whether family members of nationals of those states or family members of nationals of other EEA states.

I would go further and say such distiction would not hold, if it were taken to the ECJ. Why? Because here you have the exact reverse of Surinder Singh, where the EU member might be disuaded from marrying because this restricts his right of free movement. Applying national legislation in this case virtually cancels any right of free movement the EU citizen had before entering marriage.

This is no longer a question of national legislation, but becomes an EU matter. I know of many Italians who would like to go to the UK but cannot, because of the EEA nonsense. Is this not restriction of free movement?

Fortunately most countries are signatories of the Schengen agreement, where, except for very rare cases, all residence cards are valid as short-stay visas, so, even if a German were to marry a Ukrainian, they would still be able to travel freely within most of the EEA and Swizerland.

I seem to understand from Charles and from other posts that Romania makes no distiction between family members, just like Italy and Spain.

Why would other countries object to this practice? Italy has never made such a distiction and I am not aware anyone protested. Surely this is permitted by the directive?
Aiming at travelling to the UK with my wife and not with an EEA FP!

Richard66
Senior Member
Posts: 745
Joined: Sat Aug 25, 2007 8:17 pm
Location: Italy

Post by Richard66 » Fri Oct 24, 2008 1:56 pm

i just got the reason why they denied me. they said that they believe that the marriage was fixed. i have been working legally in the US for more than 8 yrs and if i want to be in a fix marriage, i would have done so with an american.
A Russian acquaintance of mine needed to go to England on business for his company. They denied him the visa because they were convinced he would become an illegal immigrant! He comes to Italy every year maybe four or five times, has been in Hungary, France and so on and has always respected the terms of his visa. I wonder, why would anyone, married and with a child, with a good job in a city like Moscow want to go alone to London to wash dishes? Do Entry Clearance officers really believe that?
Aiming at travelling to the UK with my wife and not with an EEA FP!

86ti
Diamond Member
Posts: 2760
Joined: Wed Nov 21, 2007 7:07 am

Post by 86ti » Fri Oct 24, 2008 2:46 pm

Richard66 wrote:
Does Romania have only one type of RC for family members? I would be very suprised if so. If other countries get notice of that they may object to this practice.
Not all countries make this distiction: Italy and Spain definitively do not and family members receive the very same residence card, whether family members of nationals of those states or family members of nationals of other EEA states.
Spains position seems to be then quite hypocritical: they accept only Schengen RCs (as you pointed out earlier) but grant more rights to their own citizens.
Richard66 wrote:I would go further and say such distiction would not hold, if it were taken to the ECJ. Why? Because here you have the exact reverse of Surinder Singh, where the EU member might be disuaded from marrying because this restricts his right of free movement. Applying national legislation in this case virtually cancels any right of free movement the EU citizen had before entering marriage.
But the EU citizen still has the right of free movement after marriage and can go anywhere else within the EEA under the provision of the Directive. Do I misunderstand you?
Richard66 wrote:This is no longer a question of national legislation, but becomes an EU matter. I know of many Italians who would like to go to the UK but cannot, because of the EEA nonsense. Is this not restriction of free movement?
Hmm, not sure. If you consider the need of a visa for your non-EEA partner a restriction then you are probably right. It is certainly a clear discrimination between EEA citizens who are married to (or in partnership with) a non-EEA national and those who are not.
Richard66 wrote:Why would other countries object to this practice?
My line of tought was that other countries - those who are stricter with their own citizens and issue different cards - may see a misinterpretation of the Directive as they give more rights to their own citizens than they are - in their own view - allowed to.

Richard66 wrote:Italy has never made such a distiction and I am not aware anyone protested. Surely this is permitted by the directive?
I think they can based on their own sovereignty of national legislation but can they legally issue what I call a "Article 10 residence card" or wouldn't they be required to give them a national one?

86ti
Diamond Member
Posts: 2760
Joined: Wed Nov 21, 2007 7:07 am

Post by 86ti » Fri Oct 24, 2008 2:51 pm

Richard66 wrote:
i just got the reason why they denied me. they said that they believe that the marriage was fixed. i have been working legally in the US for more than 8 yrs and if i want to be in a fix marriage, i would have done so with an american.
A Russian acquaintance of mine needed to go to England on business for his company. They denied him the visa because they were convinced he would become an illegal immigrant! He comes to Italy every year maybe four or five times, has been in Hungary, France and so on and has always respected the terms of his visa. I wonder, why would anyone, married and with a child, with a good job in a city like Moscow want to go alone to London to wash dishes? Do Entry Clearance officers really believe that?
Well, on some other board I read about a guy whose visa was denied (despite having been many, many times in Europe) on the grounds that he wouldn't be able to fund himself. The problem was that the ECO had some trouble converting USD to GBP...

Richard66
Senior Member
Posts: 745
Joined: Sat Aug 25, 2007 8:17 pm
Location: Italy

Post by Richard66 » Fri Oct 24, 2008 3:01 pm

But the EU citizen still has the right of free movement after marriage and can go anywhere else within the EEA under the provision of the Directive.
Not really. Take our friend Charles, a Nigerian married to a Romanian. Of course she can come and go as she pleases, but NOT with him. Proof of that is that she is now in the UK while he is in Romania and the UK will not even issue him with a family permit. Now, if she is forced to return to Romania, will this not mean in impedement to free movement? Or take my case: as I live in Italy and am covered by the Directive, so for all purposes you could say I am Italian. Now, would I have married a Russian if I knew this would mean any future trip to the UK would be such a hassle? Well, yes, I would, but only because she is such a lovely girl!
Aiming at travelling to the UK with my wife and not with an EEA FP!

Richard66
Senior Member
Posts: 745
Joined: Sat Aug 25, 2007 8:17 pm
Location: Italy

Post by Richard66 » Fri Oct 24, 2008 3:20 pm

I think they can based on their own sovereignty of national legislation but can they legally issue what I call a "Article 10 residence card" or wouldn't they be required to give them a national one?
Italy so far has solved this by inaction. There is at present no model for such a card. What they issue is a residence card valid for 5 years in which it states that it was issued to a family member or an EU citizen. In Italian law there is no distiction between Italian citizens and EU citizens, consequently such cards cannot be different.

It seems to me such cards, by definition, should follow a common EU model, the way passports already do. This is, the EU defines a model of a card and each EU country issues them nationally.

This difference between national and EEA legislation when concerning family members creates many problems, because it means that in practice non-EEA family members still encounter problems when travelling, depending if they derive right of residence from national or EU legislation.
Hmm, not sure. If you consider the need of a visa for your non-EEA partner a restriction then you are probably right.
It is a very big impedement. Consider the EEA FP. I concede it is free, but it is only valid for six months and one must apply for it in person. In our case it means going to Rome. We would get of lightly, as we live not so far away, but imagine if we lived in Turin, for example? They want fingerprints and all that and the fingers must be in perfect condition. Now, supposing the day before applying, my wife were to cut her thumb? No EEA FP.

I know the UK consulate issues EEA FPs for non-EU family members of Italians, that is, that would derive their right of residence from National, and not EU legislation. If there were this difference, surely these family members would not be entitled to the permit. Am I wrong?
Last edited by Richard66 on Fri Oct 24, 2008 3:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Aiming at travelling to the UK with my wife and not with an EEA FP!

86ti
Diamond Member
Posts: 2760
Joined: Wed Nov 21, 2007 7:07 am

Post by 86ti » Fri Oct 24, 2008 3:22 pm

Richard66 wrote:
But the EU citizen still has the right of free movement after marriage and can go anywhere else within the EEA under the provision of the Directive.
Not really. Take our friend Charles, a Nigerian married to a Romanian. Of course she can come and go as she pleases, but NOT with him. Proof of that is that she is now in the UK while he is in Romania and the UK will not even issue him with a family permit. Now, if she is forced to return to Romania, will this not mean in impedement to free movement?

Or take my case: as I live in Italy and am covered by the Directive, so for all purposes you could say I am Italian. Now, would I have married a Russian if I knew this would mean any future trip to the UK would be such a hassle? Well, yes, I would, but only because she is such a lovely girl!
So far I thought Charles' actual problem is that they insinuate a marriage of convenience despite him being a legal resident in Romania on the basis of this marriage (obviously they don't trust the Romanian authorities which is interesting as the Irish seemed to think that their previous requirement of prior legal residence in another EEA state would have solved their sham marriage problem).

So what you are saying is that the requirement of the EEA family permit is a restriction to free movement?

Richard66
Senior Member
Posts: 745
Joined: Sat Aug 25, 2007 8:17 pm
Location: Italy

Post by Richard66 » Fri Oct 24, 2008 3:29 pm

They insinuate it was a sham marriage in order to obtain residence in Romania, but the real purpose to enter the UK.

Yes, I consider the EEA FP a restriction of free movement in that, for example, my wife and I cannot go to the UK with ease. We would need a month's notice before undertaking such a trip. Supposing tomorrow I were to find a business partner in the UK, meaning I need to go there two or three times a year for, say, a month at a time. What do I do with my wife? Leave her home? Apply for an EEA FP every six months? Applying for a UK residence card would not be, of course, possible.
Aiming at travelling to the UK with my wife and not with an EEA FP!

86ti
Diamond Member
Posts: 2760
Joined: Wed Nov 21, 2007 7:07 am

Post by 86ti » Fri Oct 24, 2008 3:37 pm

Richard66 wrote:
Hmm, not sure. If you consider the need of a visa for your non-EEA partner a restriction then you are probably right.
It is a very big impedement. Consider the EEA FP. I concede it is free, but it is only valid for six months and one must apply for it in person. In our case it means going to Rome. We would get of lightly, as we live not so far away, but imagine if we lived in Turin, for example? They want fingerprints and all that and the fingers must be in perfect condition. Now, supposing the day before applying, my wife were to cut her thumb? No EEA FP.
I just know too well what you mean. We were asked to travel the 200 miles from our home down to London to obtain a Schengen visa for Austria. Given the opening times of the embassy and that we have a little daughter would mean that we have to stay overnight. You probably can guess how much that would cost me... BTW they require BOTH of us to come in person. Schengen rules they say. Wonder if that's really true as many other embassies don't seem to care.

Richard66 wrote:I know the UK consulate issues EEA FPs for non-EU family members of Italians, that is, that would derive their right of residence from National, and not EU legislation. If there were this difference, surely these family members would not be entitled to the permit. Am I wrong?
The EEA FP is issued to all non-EEA family members irrespective of their current residence of the EEA national. The difference is that it depends whether you reside within the EEA or outside of it (then "normal" Immigration Rules apply).

86ti
Diamond Member
Posts: 2760
Joined: Wed Nov 21, 2007 7:07 am

Post by 86ti » Fri Oct 24, 2008 3:41 pm

Richard66 wrote:They insinuate it was a sham marriage in order to obtain residence in Romania, but the real purpose to enter the UK.
In other words, they don't care what decisions other member states make. They will apply their own rules anyway even if that means going against EU regulations. Oh, deja vue. I think we had that one already didn't we? :-D

Richard66
Senior Member
Posts: 745
Joined: Sat Aug 25, 2007 8:17 pm
Location: Italy

Post by Richard66 » Fri Oct 24, 2008 4:05 pm

I just know too well what you mean. We were asked to travel the 200 miles from our home down to London to obtain a Schengen visa for Austria. Given the opening times of the embassy and that we have a little daughter would mean that we have to stay overnight. You probably can guess how much that would cost me... BTW they require BOTH of us to come in person. Schengen rules they say. Wonder if that's really true as many other embassies don't seem to care.
At least it is possible to obtain a Schengen visa with a 5 year validity.

That both need to go? I do not remember seeing any of this in the Schengen regulations.
In other words, they don't care what decisions other member states make.
Exactly! If a member state has issued a residence card it is presumed the EEA state has verified if this family member fulfils the conditions or not. I feel as if I had to prove twice that my wife really is my wife!

Actually, I was asked for far more documents from the UK than from Italy, but the ones the UK asked for were in excess. What worries me in this situation is this:

I, for some reason, lose the right to live in Italy and am asked to leave (say, voluntary unemployment). We will need to go to the UK, but the UK will ask me for guarantees we will not be applying for benefits, which, of course, I would not be able to do, because I would not even have right to unemployment benefit in Italy! I could return to the UK on my own and claim the sky, of course, but on my own. What about my wife and (future) child? Where would they go? They cannot remain in Italy and cannot go to the UK. Do they go to Russia?
Aiming at travelling to the UK with my wife and not with an EEA FP!

86ti
Diamond Member
Posts: 2760
Joined: Wed Nov 21, 2007 7:07 am

Post by 86ti » Fri Oct 24, 2008 4:21 pm

Richard66 wrote:
I just know too well what you mean. We were asked to travel the 200 miles from our home down to London to obtain a Schengen visa for Austria. Given the opening times of the embassy and that we have a little daughter would mean that we have to stay overnight. You probably can guess how much that would cost me... BTW they require BOTH of us to come in person. Schengen rules they say. Wonder if that's really true as many other embassies don't seem to care.
At least it is possible to obtain a Schengen visa with a 5 year validity.

That both need to go? I do not remember seeing any of this in the Schengen regulations.
5 years!? We were offered six month in the first instance!

charles4u
Member of Standing
Posts: 369
Joined: Mon Jul 28, 2008 6:33 pm

Post by charles4u » Sat Oct 25, 2008 9:03 am

Wow its so nice on the discussion and the explainations but I guess we can do more than just talking here but I just dont know how cus it seems just a letter to the obudsman is not enough as its taking them yrs to anwser or even solve the problem.

About the residence issue, Well I told "86ti" that I was surprised when I heard Residence is issued on some certain law. Well in Romania there are 2 types of residence as I know, 1-TEMPORARY RESIDENCE, 2-RESIDENCE CARD FOR FAMILY MEMBERS, First before the parmanent residence is issued to family members for 2yrs but it as now changed to Family card which I guess we all know and even the police or immigration here told me straight up that once u r married u will be getting the family card valid for 5yrs sure with interviews and if they see its geniuning, thats why the embassies I got replies from said I must have the new residence card that states RESIDENCE CARD FOR FAMILY MEMBERS and only this type of card allows free movement.


I wouldnt know why residence should be issued under one law or the other, The fact the country is a member of the EU then any type of document mostly Residence should be issued under the EU law so as to have a trace or track record if any info is needed. for example of someone here saying something abt being denied cus of he has being married too many times in the EU country, that is how they can get the record or know if he as practice in a marraige of convinience (correct me if am wrong).


I dont know what to say about the EEA anymore and I see u guys saying things like maybe I am married to gain an entry to the UK, Sometimes I think smarter and better people are the ones left out on the street and those that are even in better position or make decisions are the dull once. How can I wanna go to the UK, first go to Singapore 5 times, was in Malaysia to study then come to Romania then wanna go to the UK. I have spent almost 10,000 Dollars in the past one yr just cus I wanna go to the UK...this is crazy !!!

I Would have stayed in Nigeria and arranged for the UK visa somehow if it was my aim, I always wanted to go to canada and I told my wife that but things changed since am married and I guess life and plans have to change sometimes in our life thats all.
Charles4u

charles4u
Member of Standing
Posts: 369
Joined: Mon Jul 28, 2008 6:33 pm

Post by charles4u » Sat Oct 25, 2008 9:23 am

charles4u wrote:
I dont know what to say about the EEA anymore and I see u guys saying things like maybe I am married to gain an entry to the UK, Sometimes I think smarter and better people are the ones left out on the street and those that are even in better position or make decisions are the dull once. How can I wanna go to the UK, first go to Singapore 5 times, was in Malaysia to study then come to Romania then wanna go to the UK. I have spent almost 10,000 Dollars in the past one yr just cus I wanna go to the UK...this is crazy !!!.
This is exactly how some people think ..."dull" just like the consular at the british embassy here in Romania, I explained all this things to her but there is no common sense to think and imagine things...we r all humans and sometimes we should think from human perspective to understand each other better instead of just writtings and following papers and laws that are made up for the convinient of some certain people..

I wish things could be more better or changed in a positive way as soon as possible concerning this EEA and am ready to fight to the last till when its abolish, We will all celebrate here or maybe even in UK when its cancelled.
Charles4u

86ti
Diamond Member
Posts: 2760
Joined: Wed Nov 21, 2007 7:07 am

Post by 86ti » Sat Oct 25, 2008 1:22 pm

charles4u wrote:I wouldnt know why residence should be issued under one law or the other
Simple actually. Some countries want to keep tight control over their immigration affairs. EU regulation is too liberal for them. Hence the attempt to introduce double standards.
charles4u wrote:I dont know what to say about the EEA anymore and I see u guys saying things like maybe I am married to gain an entry to the UK
I don't think that anybody here said that you would have done so. We simply tried to interpret the response you got from the embassy. It seems clear that a marriage of convience is the only possible way they could deny you. That's all they've got.

Richard66
Senior Member
Posts: 745
Joined: Sat Aug 25, 2007 8:17 pm
Location: Italy

Post by Richard66 » Sat Oct 25, 2008 1:39 pm

Yes, Charles, we have never said that, we simply tried to think what the entry clearance officer thought. To make you feel better... We married in August 2007 and began to apply for an EEA FP in September. Guess what they thought! There were reasons for this (my father) but they only think of illegal immigration, and now that Russians are all poison-wielding spies out to get little babies...

About the 5 years, it is at least possible in theory, while the EEA FP is six months or six months.
Aiming at travelling to the UK with my wife and not with an EEA FP!

charles4u
Member of Standing
Posts: 369
Joined: Mon Jul 28, 2008 6:33 pm

Post by charles4u » Sun Oct 26, 2008 10:33 am

Well guys I didnt put the words direct to u guys that u thought I did either, maybe I didnt put the words right. I am mainly refaring to the consular at the british that cant just reason humanly.

Well well well thx so much guys and nothing still new yet and maybe as I said earlier I might be the first to go with my family card and passport to join my wife in the UK if I dont get an anwser b4 friday this week.
Charles4u

Richard66
Senior Member
Posts: 745
Joined: Sat Aug 25, 2007 8:17 pm
Location: Italy

Post by Richard66 » Tue Oct 28, 2008 9:52 am

How are you going to go about it? Your wife is in the UK already, is she not? How will you demonstrate to the airline that you will be joning her there and, more importantly, how are you going to prove this to immigration?
Aiming at travelling to the UK with my wife and not with an EEA FP!

charles4u
Member of Standing
Posts: 369
Joined: Mon Jul 28, 2008 6:33 pm

Post by charles4u » Tue Oct 28, 2008 11:09 am

That is what I dont know now for sure cus in the EU directive 2004/38/EC, it says something like the UK and Ireland are not fully parcitipating in the EU and their citizens have some limits e.g cant go with just their ID to another EU member states.

So in this case about EEA I think nothing can really be done so by them asking for EEA it is basically lawful I think due to this limitation of the UK-EU, well I dont want to risk it as my wife is scared also ..

We concluded if nothing happens soon then she will cancel her nursing course,working contract and then we go somewhere else ..I told u before SCANDINAVIA but we dont have full info yet abt this countries which is what I need now.
Charles4u

Richard66
Senior Member
Posts: 745
Joined: Sat Aug 25, 2007 8:17 pm
Location: Italy

Post by Richard66 » Tue Oct 28, 2008 11:28 am

You can prove your are joining her: get a letter from her, asking you to come, copies of her certificates from the course, job contracts, etc.

Do not confuse the directive with the Schengen agreement. You are covbered by the Directive. What has happened to you? Has someone convinced you the UK is right? Shame on you! :oops:
Aiming at travelling to the UK with my wife and not with an EEA FP!

Locked
cron