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Petition EU // visa-free-travel for EU-Family members

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ca.funke
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Petition EU // visa-free-travel for EU-Family members

Post by ca.funke » Sun Aug 10, 2008 11:46 am

Hi all,

I want to file a petition with the European parliament to help enforcing rights guaranteed as per 2004/38/EC.

This is for EU-citizens and their family-members who live inside the EU, and want to travel throughout the EU.

I hope it will have some effect.

The original petition can be downloaded as .pdf here.

Any comments welcome. Who would be willing to sign this?

Regards, Christian

### ### ### ###

After extensive attention to detail, the file is now only available in the .pdf above.
Last edited by ca.funke on Sat Jul 28, 2012 9:25 am, edited 24 times in total.

AxeZ
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Post by AxeZ » Mon Aug 11, 2008 5:40 am

I would like to know what about EU citizens NOT living on the territory of the EU and their non EU spouses?

I believe there are lot of such examples, mine first!

Is it possible to add family members of the EU citizens regardless of where they live if they can prove their relationship off course, with wedding certificate or such?

thsths
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Re: Petition EU // visa-free-travel for EU-Family members

Post by thsths » Mon Aug 11, 2008 7:49 am

ca.funke wrote:I want to file a petition with the European parliament to help enforcing rights guaranteed as per 2004/38/EC.

This is for EU-citizens and their family-members who live inside the EU, and want to travel throughout the EU.
That is an excellent idea. I think you should also point out that the legal situation is tricky, because each country has implemented the directive in a slightly different way. The UK for example has the law written in such a way that it excludes residence cards not issued in the UK, although I believe that this error is mitigated in the application of the law.

And the next question whether family members of EU citizens residing in their own country should have the same right. Generally they are not cover by European rights, but as soon as they want to travel within the EU, this is a European issue. It could be useful to mention this, although I have the feeling it may be best to handle this as a separate petition.

Tom

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Post by iamwhoever » Mon Aug 11, 2008 8:10 am

I would like to draw your attention to the practical difficulties family-members of EU-citizens face when exercising their rights of free movement, as guaranteed by the mentioned Directive.
I would be careful on the wording. This makes it sound as if the they are neglecting the rights of the non-EU spouse. If you are going to do this, you will have to emphasise the neglect of the EU spouse. It's the rights of the EU-national being neglected. Just be sure to emphasise that it is the right of the EU-national and that s/he should be able to take his/her family with them whenever and wherever s/he travels within the EU.

Best of luck. Cheers!

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Post by ca.funke » Mon Aug 11, 2008 8:51 am

iamwhoever wrote:...This makes it sound as if the they are neglecting the rights of the non-EU spouse. If you are going to do this, you will have to emphasise the neglect of the EU spouse....
very good point - changed - thanks!!

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Post by ca.funke » Mon Aug 11, 2008 10:58 am

AxeZ wrote:I would like to know what about EU citizens NOT living on the territory of the EU and their non EU spouses?

I believe there are lot of such examples, mine first!

Is it possible to add family members of the EU citizens regardless of where they live if they can prove their relationship off course, with wedding certificate or such?
Hi AxeZ,

the situation you describe is different, as you will always have to apply for visas for the non-EU-spouse.

Ironically 2004/38/EC does apply, as long as you want to "move to" a country in the EU (as far as I understood so far this includes visits), of which your spouse is NOT a national. As a result it is easier to apply for a visa to any country inside the EU, except the home country of the EU spouse.
See Article 3, Section 1 of 2004/38/EC:

Beneficiaries

This Directive shall apply to all Union citizens who move
to or reside in a Member State other than that of which they
are a national
, and to their family members as defined in point
2 of Article 2 who accompany or join them.
I will keep my petition limited to the acceptance of residence-cards, as the law already requires.

However, I see your point and encourage you to take action towards getting your rights affirmed :!:
Last edited by ca.funke on Mon Aug 11, 2008 12:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.

ca.funke
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Re: Petition EU // visa-free-travel for EU-Family members

Post by ca.funke » Mon Aug 11, 2008 11:14 am

Hi thsths,

thanks for all your valuable input :!:
thsths wrote:I think you should also point out that the legal situation is tricky, because each country has implemented the directive in a slightly different way.
That's unfortunately the nature of directives, as they may be transposed into national law.

Only when a state decides not to transpose them, the directive itself becomes effective national law, which would make things easier. (As the case with 2004/38/EC in Belgium and Luxembourg. They chose not to individually transpose them, and thus 2004/38/EC is now direct binding law in these states)

I guess pointing this out to the parliament (or at least i naively hope so) is superfluous.

thsths wrote:The UK for example has the law written in such a way that it excludes residence cards not issued in the UK, although I believe that this error is mitigated in the application of the law.
I know this is the case, and in this regard I lodged a separate complaint with the commission.

However, I would like to keep the petition as simple as possible and as much to the point as possible.

Also, this UK-blunder is implicitly included. (...[the residency permit] should include the words “permits entry into all EU states for a period of up to three months, when accompanied by or joining an EU family memberâ€

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Post by Richard66 » Mon Aug 11, 2008 3:24 pm

I have filed a petition with the European Parliament, where I ask more or less for this. It is gradually moving, but I'll happily sign another, however. Every little bit helps!

May I add that Italy, while having transposed the Directive, still has not yet published the model to be used as the family member's residence card, though my wife has a document with all the characteristics of the card, except it's called residence permit and not residence card for a family member.

Also, Italy considers family members of Italians and of EU citizens as identical in rights. The transposition of the Directive actually says so, when it states that "this law applies to family members of Italians when it is more favourable than the laws that apply to family members of Italians".

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Post by ca.funke » Mon Aug 11, 2008 3:43 pm

Richard66 wrote:Also, Italy considers family members of Italians and of EU citizens as identical in rights. The transposition of the Directive actually says so, when it states that "this law applies to family members of Italians when it is more favourable than the laws that apply to family members of Italians".
That's nice from the Italians. As a result they will not suffer from (unfortunately legal) native's-discrimination, as do all other European nations than I am aware of.

May I ask about the details of your petition? How did you get other people to sign it?

As I do not want to collect personal data from people, I currently envisage publishing the details of my filed petition when this is done, asking people to write directly to the petition's devision in support of it.

Is there any other way? Is there any way to sign your petition? Is there a way to follow it?

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Post by Richard66 » Mon Aug 11, 2008 5:24 pm

I am a British citizen exercising treaty rights in Italy and I am married to a Russian.

In my petition I mentioned my wife was denied boarding to the UK by the Italian airline, who claimed they had called the British Embassy in Rome twice and that twice they had been told my wife was to be denied boarding because she had no visa and that she could only enter the UK with a UK residence card, which is bunk.

At first the Embassy tried to convince us that, as we were going on a visit, (and not to settle) Surinder Singh was not game and she would need to apply for a visa and not the phoney EEA FP. After a lot of agitation, they conceded that we could go to the UK on a visit, but she needed the EEA FP, which, as before, is junk.

UK Solvit at one point shared the UK's interpretation of the visit/treaty rights issue, which, of course, makes them look foolish. I actually called their attention to this, but they did not answer. I wonder why... :D

Our petition says the UK should respect the rights of family members, that they need to correct their laws and suggesting that the EU make an amendment to the directive clearly stating that residence cards issued by an EEA member state is valid as a short-stay visa for entry into any other EEA member state.

Just to be nasty, I forwarded a copy of this to the Embassy in Rome, who in turn sent it to the Home Office. :D

I also filed a complaint with the European Commission, but this I didn't forward to the Embassy. May it be a surprise to them. :lol:

Only my wife and I signed it. It was accepted and is now in the Justice dept or equivalent. It has a reference number, but if this is of any use to track it, I don't know.

For your petition, you'll need to collect data, as it will need to be signed. They accept collective petitions.

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Re: Petition EU // visa-free-travel for EU-Family members

Post by stmellon » Wed Aug 13, 2008 8:00 pm

ca.funke wrote:Hi all,

I want to file a petition with the European parliament ..... Who would be willing to sign this?

Hello Christian,

I would like to back you on this. It's time to make a stand for our rights.

How can I lend a hand?


Simon

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Post by stmellon » Wed Aug 13, 2008 8:04 pm

AxeZ wrote:I would like to know what about EU citizens NOT living on the territory of the EU and their non EU spouses?

I believe there are lot of such examples, mine first!

Is it possible to add family members of the EU citizens regardless of where they live if they can prove their relationship off course, with wedding certificate or such?

Dear AxeZ, I'm not entirely clear on what you are asking for here.

While I sympathise with immigration difficulties that you might be facing (or have faced), there is nothing that the EU can do about non EU territories - let's face it, they haven't even got their own house in order yet! :roll:

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Post by ca.funke » Sat Aug 16, 2008 11:26 am

stmellon wrote:
AxeZ wrote:I would like to know what about EU citizens NOT living on the territory of the EU and their non EU spouses?

I believe there are lot of such examples, mine first!

Is it possible to add family members of the EU citizens regardless of where they live if they can prove their relationship off course, with wedding certificate or such?
...I'm not entirely clear on what you are asking for here...
I GUESS this refers to EU / non-EU relations of all descriptions, where all affected LIVE outside the EU and want to come to the EU for VISITS, where the non-EU part is not visa-free :?:

This leads, again, to the question how "move to" in Article 3 of 2004/38/EC has to be interpreted:
Article 3
Beneficiaries
1. This Directive shall apply to all Union citizens who move
to or reside in a Member State other than that of which they
are a national, and to their family members as defined in point
2 of Article 2 who accompany or join them.
Is "move to" only applicable for people setting up shop permanently, or do you "move to" a place for holidays?

Consequences of this sentence are very confusing in any case:
  • An EU-citizen that wants to permanently move to an EU-country of which he is NOT a citizen, is covered.
  • An EU-citizen that wants to VISIT his country of origin may go through hell trying to obtain a visa.
:roll:

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Post by ca.funke » Sat Aug 16, 2008 11:54 am

The petition is about to be finished. It can be downloaded as per link in the first post.

If you want to support the petition, please send a postcard or a letter to the Parliament, mentioning the reference# and your full (real) details.

I will post the reference# once received, as well as the parliament's address...

...Before I'll send it off I'm still open to change details... feel free to post in here...
Last edited by ca.funke on Mon Aug 18, 2008 4:48 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Post by Christophe » Sat Aug 16, 2008 4:54 pm

ca.funke wrote:...Before I'll send it off I'm still open to change details... feel free to post in here...
ca.funke, see my e-mail to you. Best wishes.

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Post by SoloOl » Sat Aug 16, 2008 10:48 pm

Hello all! I've just read a petition - great job!! Many thanks! As fare as I understood it was me who traveled to Spain:)) - yes, it was exactly like this plus lot's of "shit" (sorry) - I was treated like a terrorist (please read my other topics).

From my side there are no good news: European Commission and Solvit are still trying to decide who should deal with everything that had happened, and keep sending me to each other. EasyJet said that they don't care so no even a refund for the tickets! And also, I didn't tell you that they changed my flight to come back for my deportation with out even informing me about it.

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Post by ca.funke » Sun Aug 17, 2008 1:22 am

SoloOl wrote:Hello all! I've just read a petition - great job!! Many thanks! As fare as I understood it was me who traveled to Spain:)) - yes, it was exactly like this plus lot's of "shit" (sorry) - I was treated like a terrorist (please read my other topics).

From my side there are no good news: European Commission and Solvit are still trying to decide who should deal with everything that had happened, and keep sending me to each other. EasyJet said that they don't care so no even a refund for the tickets! And also, I didn't tell you that they changed my flight to come back for my deportation with out even informing me about it.
eerrgghh no.

the "Spanish" example was not refering to you...

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Post by SoloOl » Sun Aug 17, 2008 7:18 am

Ohhh Spain is very "cool" as I can see then. 8) When was it and what what person did at the end? Any successful news? Thank you.

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Post by ca.funke » Mon Aug 18, 2008 2:16 pm

Sorry for pushing this topic...

Last call for suggestions to improve this.

The finalised version of the petition can be downloaded as per link in the first post.

Thanks and rgds, Christian

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deadline

Post by ca.funke » Fri Aug 22, 2008 3:23 pm

:!: For no particular reason I decided that D-Day will be next week Thursday, August 28th :!:

:!: (Please also see this thread)
:!:

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Post by Richard66 » Tue Aug 26, 2008 2:08 pm

Are you asking us then to sign it, is that it?

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Post by ciaramc » Wed Aug 27, 2008 8:48 am

Are you asking us to sign it or send it with our name attached? I would be very interested in doing this?

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Post by ca.funke » Wed Aug 27, 2008 9:03 am

Hi all,

I will post the petition tomorrow (Thursday, 28th August 2008).

Once I receive the reference# under which it is treated I will post it here. You can then send a postcard or letter to the Parliament in support of the petition, quoting the reference#.

This way I do not have to collect any personal data from anyone, yet you can still safely provide your full personal details. (Without which the support does not work / is not counted)

Christian

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Post by ciaramc » Wed Aug 27, 2008 9:19 am

Sounds like a good idea.....

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Post by Richard66 » Wed Aug 27, 2008 10:24 am

Would you be interested to quote my petition? I can give you its number and you could say that so-and-so posted another for similar reasons.

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