Desperate Help Required For Child -Date Of Application Issue

[bennysherman]

Dear Friends,

I need help desperately. please help.

Issue:

I am a british citizen. My child in Africa was due to turn 18years on 11 April 2014. I applied for her entry clearance visa (Settlement) on the 08 April 2014 online and paid for the visa fees online with my debit card online on 08 April 2014 (ie on the same date as the online application.


The Home office visa application website offered an appointment date (24th April 2014) for the submission of the printed completed application forms and supporting documents in Africa.


After waiting for 3months, the ECO refused the visa application. the following was the reason:


That at the "date of submission" (ie 24th April 2014), my child had already turned 18years (hence no longer a child) of British citizen or settled person. hence the refusal of entry clearance.


My question is:



Is this right? My question is about the effective "date of application or submission". I dont understand why the application was refused. Please help.


I have appealed against this decision. Do I stand a chance of being successful with the appeal?



The tribunal hearing date has been set for next month. I used the following grounds for my appeal.


Grounds of appeal (that i am using) as follows:


The appellant submitted the application on line. This was done on the 8th of April 2014, therefore at the time of application, which was made on line by the sponsor, the fee was also paid that same day by the sponsor/father. On this date, the appellant was under the age of 18. Therefore the respondent’s conclusion that at the time of application the child had turned 18 is wrong. The case Jaspreet Kaur v ECO New Delhi (Entry Clearance – Date of Application [2013] UKUT 00381 (IAC) supports this assertion. In this case the Upper Tribunal decided that “An application for entry clearance is made on the date on which payment of the relevant fee is made. If the application is made online, and payment of the relevant fee is also made online, contemporaneously with submission of the online application, the date of application is the date of submission. If payment of the relevant fee is not made until the printed application form is submitted, the date of application is the date on which those are handed over”. It is therefore maintained that the appellant was under 18 years of age, hence a child, as her application was submitted on 8th April 2014 online as well as the full relevant paid online on the same date (i.e. 8th April 2014).


I also stated that ECO did not ECHR Aritcle 8 into account.

I got my friend to draft the grounds for me, I am disabled person.

Many thanks for your help.



Regards

[geriatrix]

Immigration rules

30. An application for an entry clearance is not made until any fee required to be paid under the Consular Fees Act 1980 (including any Regulations or Orders made under that Act) has been paid.

Does EHCR Article 8 have a role in this case? Unknown ...
Why did you wait for the last moment to apply for EC for your almost adult child? Just 3 days before the child was to turn 18? Was this the child's very first EC application? Has the child been to UK before or lived here before?

[bennysherman]

Thanks so much for your response.. Bless you

I made previous application for this child. but got refused on the fact that those application did not meet other immigrations rules. I found solution to them and resolved them in this new pending application. Hence this later application.

This child has never been to uk in the past.

Please could you confirm it this case which date will be the date of submission of application?

[geriatrix]

Please could you confirm it this case which date will be the date of submission of application?

According to the immigration rules (which I have quoted in my response above), the date you paid the fee i.e. - 08-Apr.

[bennysherman]

Thanks so much.

[bennysherman]

Hi Sorry to ask you another question.

Please do you think I will need a solicitor to represent me at the tribunal on this case?

Or is it going to be a straight forward hearing?

Please can I just rely on the grounds that I have state on the appeal?

Or do I need prepare any skeleton argument document for this sort of appeal?

I am a person with disability and I ideally I would have preferred not to pay a legal representative for this case if possible. Or if you think I need one can you recommend for me.

Also can the Home office try to add another grounds for refusal other than those stated in the refusal notice letter?

Is it possibe?

[noajthan]

Hi Sorry to ask you another question.

Please do you think I will need a solicitor to represent me at the tribunal on this case?

Or is it going to be a straight forward hearing?

Please can I just rely on the grounds that I have state on the appeal?

Or do I need prepare any skeleton argument document for this sort of appeal?

I am a person with disability and I ideally I would have preferred not to pay a legal representative for this case if possible. Or if you think I need one can you recommend for me.

Also can the Home office try to add another grounds for refusal other than those stated in the refusal notice letter?

Is it possibe?

You may need all the support you can get unless you have some sort of legal experience.

This summarises what to expect:
http://www.courtroomadvice.co.uk/what-h ... aring.html
&
http://www.righttoremain.org.uk/legal/r ... -tribunal/

If a legal representative is out of the question then, at the very least, think about arranging a 'McKenzie friend' as both a moral support & practical support.
See http://www.righttoremain.org.uk/legal/r ... -tribunal/

You should prepare all the briefing documents you need to support your case.
A skeleton argument document is a good idea - you only have one shot so do not want to be making it up as you go along.

Draw up & bullet point your arguments.
Prepare a crib sheet & prompt cards on the points of law.
Collate all your evidence and facts: dates, times, copies of application, payment details, bank statements, communications with HO, & etc etc.

Try to anticipate HO rebuttals and counter-arguments.
For example they may argue the payment fee had not been transferred by your bank to their bank until some days later, (& after the deadline).
Prepare & plan how you would answer such an argument (& all others you can think of).

I do not know how the HO representatives will operate or what is admissible or not.
I assume this case will be judged on points of law & procedure and not on appeals to emotion.
If representing yourself, suggest you practise vocalising & stating your case and your arguments before the day.

You mentioned a disability; if you have any particular access or other needs they would have to be notified & arranged with the tribunal service in advance.

Best of luck.

[bennysherman]

thanks.

Is the HO allowed to bring other reasons of refusal (e.g. application not meeting the immigration rules) other than those stated in the refusal letter, which in this case 'the date of application'

[noajthan]

thanks.

Is the HO allowed to bring other reasons of refusal (e.g. application not meeting the immigration rules) other than those stated in the refusal letter, which in this case 'the date of application'

I do not know how HO & their lawyers will operate.
Is the purpose of the hearing to review the whole case or just your appeal on the specific point about date of application

The judge should keep the tribunal within scope, however that scope is defined.

You will need to anticipate questions they will put to you as well as focusing on the case you want to make.
It would be prudent of you to prepare answers to such left-field issues in case they do try to wrong-foot you.
So have all relevant papers & details to hand.

If you can have a McKenzie friend (supporter) with you at the tribunal that will probably help you too.

You should also appeal to the judge to keep the tribunal on topic if you think something is going out of bounds & out of scope.

[bennysherman]

thanks so much

[bennysherman]

Thanks for your response earlier on.

What could my rebuttal if the HO argue that the payment fee had not been transferred by my bank to their bank?

Example: in this case, I made the payment at approximately 11pm on the 08/04/2014 and I received an automated email confirmation of the payment from the Home office payment system at 09/04/2014 at approximately 1am. This once again confirms that I made the payment of the visa fees at the same time as the online application. But the payment appeared on bank statement on the 11/04/2014 (which was my child's 18th birthday). Though on the statement it states that the payment was made on the 08/04/2015. Can this be problem?


I have also got an automated email confirmation, which I received at approximately 11:30pm on 08/04/2014, that an appointment has been arranged for my child to submit her supporting document at the Visa Application Centre on the 28/04/2014 (which is about 17days after my child's 18th Birthday). For your information, and once again to confirm, my child submitted the documents on the 28/04/2014.

Furthermore, there has been further development. I have just received a bundle of documents from the HO. In the bundle, I have seen a copy of my child's visa application. On the application, the HO are now stating that the application date is 29/04/2014, (different date from the 28/04/2014, which was stated in the visa refusal letter). This is strange. It seems the HO is constantly mistaking all over. Hmm! Could that be helpful?

Just a further separate question:

By the way, as far as immigration rules and visa applications rules are concerned, Is there any problem with visa application made on Weekends (Saturday or Sunday) at all, if someone makes an online application over the weekend? what will be the effective application? is it going to be the following working day (i.e. Monday) or is it going to be the same day (i.e. Saturday) as the application is made online?

Thanks so much in advance for your help on this. Bless you

[Casa]

You may have to be prepared for the HO to say that although the payment was received @ 1am on 9/04/14, as this was a weekend the payment wouldn't have cleared into their account until the 11th. I'm guessing that the 9th was a Saturday.

My understanding is that the Home Office are not permitted to introduce a further reason for refusal that wasn't included originally.

[vinny]

I think that you should be able to argue that the application date was when you made the payment, not when it was processed.

[bennysherman]

Hi Friends,

Any further advice on this issue, please?

the appeal hearing is near, and I hope the appeal will be successful.

Any further advice? am getting more anxious.

thanks for all your help so far.

I will update you.

[bennysherman]

Friends, Just to update you:

I got a law firm to send the tribunal and the HO my 'Skeleton Arguments' stating my case about the 'date of application', as well as the receipts for visa fees payment and application receipts, one week prior to the hearing.

The tribunal hearing was due today.

I received a correspondence from the HO Presenting officer yesterday that they have consulted with the ECO Africa on this matter and they agree with my claim regarding the date of application. They have withdrawn the original decision (refusal based on the date of application) on yesterday. However they will now fully reconsider the matter substantively.

I was wondering if they will now try to find some 'dodgy' alternative way to try to refuse the application, giving a different reason for refusal. I feel they are just trying to find ways and means to try to refuse my child's entry. Considering that my child has now turned 18years. Though at the date of application, my child was still under 18. Also considering the fact that they have refused the application previously.

My child is disturbed and wants to come and live with me and the mum here in UK.

I have lost money on my legal fees, as well as about £100 on advance prebooked train tickets to attend the hearing.

Pls can you advice.

[noajthan]

Friends, Just to update you:

...

I was wondering if they will now try to find some 'dodgy' alternative way to try to refuse the application, giving a different reason for refusal. I feel they are just trying to find ways and means to try to refuse my child's entry. Considering that my child has now turned 18years. Though at the date of application, my child was still under 18. Also considering the fact that they have refused the application previously.

My child is disturbed and wants to come and live with me and the mum here in UK.

I have lost money on my legal fees, as well as about £100 on advance prebooked train tickets to attend the hearing.

Pls can you advice.

Congratulations this is a win for you, both legally & morally.
The legal fees seem well-spent as you got a result in your favour. Not sure if anything can be done about train fares.

It's not possible to second-guess what HO will do next but you appear to have addressed all reasons for refusal so far.
They have to follow their rules & the law & you will have to respond and rebut their arguments accordingly.

if anything like my daughter's case (which also went to the wire before HO dropped their case) the next thing will be a visa or approval in the post (with no explanation or apology for delay/stress caused).

Best of luck.

[bennysherman]

Thanks to everyone for your help. I really appreciate your assistance on this matter.

Its been very stressful for my child and myself, as well as my wife here in UK.

We just hope the HO will issue the visa to my child, so we can re-unite.

[bennysherman]

Dear friends,

I am now more distressed as my child has been so much distressed for not coming to live me. she calls me daily to request that she comes and live me.

About 34days I wrote to the Home office liaising officer to try to find out how long it was going to take to process the reconsideration of my child's visa application.

contents: "Please could you confirm the estimated waiting time for the processing."


On the 16th sept: The officer replied to say that:

"I expect this may take about 1 month."


My question now is: is the there polite way of writing an email back to him to find for any further updates?

is it appropriate to do so now?

Please kindly advise me.

Many thanks..

[bennysherman]

Friends,

Any advice please?

Many thanks

[bennysherman]

The ECO has reconsidered my child visa application again and has re-refused the application.

i just cant believe it.

any help?

i will re-appeal though

[noajthan]

The ECO has reconsidered my child visa application again and has re-refused the application.

i just cant believe it.

any help?

i will re-appeal though

Oh dear, that is an upset.

Is the refusal for the same reason/s & (if you feel able to share it) what is basis of refusal?