Is UK Doing Enough to assist with the EU refugee crisis

[Obie]

Outflake you are a nice person and I don't want to offend Americans many of whom are friends of mine, nice and peace loving , who believe in the rights of nation to self determination.

I can understand you are patriotic and want to fight your nations corner, but from an objective assessment, I will say American Government policy and military intervention are the source of so many instability that we see today.

I have not set up this thread for political discussion. It purpose is to look and enable people to reflect on the refugee crisis and the contribution or lack of it of some of the EU 28 members.

I shall open another thread on the none immigration section in due course , to discuss the effect of US on world crisis.

[Casa]

Obie, do you think that's wise? It has the potential to become inflammatory.

[Obie]

Just to get this thread back on topic .

Poland , the nation that protested against David Cameron against discriminating against it citizens , had previously said it will not take Muslims in just like Hungary which had said it has the right to decide whether it wishes to live with Muslims.

Now the Polish government has offered asylum to 2000.

Another disgraceful number.

Australian has offered 12000 places to religious persecuted minorities.

[Obie]

Obie, do you think that's wise? It has the potential to become inflammatory.

I appreciate your concerns Casa. I will not open it.

I am seeking on diffusing the American aspect.

It was never my intention to bring America into this debate.

I wanted it to focus on Europe 28 and the Humanitarian crisis and shame those dearly beloved and Islam phobic leaders.

[ouflak1]

EU unveils bold plan to take 160,000

The migrants' plight has touched hearts around the world, spurred especially by pictures last week of three-year-old Syrian Aylan Kurdi, whose lifeless body washed up on a Turkish beach.

Which ought to be more than enough incentive for all of the 'human rights' activists to finally get it through their heads that this must stop NOW. Send all of these people back immediately. If you continue taking them in carte blanc, then more people will die making the attempt.

[secret.simon]

If you continue taking them in carte blanc, then more people will die making the attempt.

I agree. While I am not so sure about sending them back, Europe must dissuade people from coming. I have recommended the Australian solution (which is apparently known as the Pacific Solution in Australia) in an earlier post.

I also suggest that we not get swayed by the tragic image of the Syrian boy drowned on the Turkish beach.

Think like a people smuggler. If one drowned boy gets 100-1000 people into Europe, the beaches bordering the Mediterranean will be covered with bodies of dead children. The people smugglers will not care how many children die, so long as their profitable business flourishes. And if European people want dead bodies of children to allow more people in, they will get them.

Kindness can cause cruelty somewhere else in the world. It merely displaces cruelty, it does not destroy it.

[Ewald]

The UK should let us be with our families before they even consider taking on migrants.

[Wanderer]

The UK should let us be with our families before they even consider taking on migrants.

You have a choice, many migrants don't.

[The Station Agent]

I wonder if Germany and Sweden discussed their "if you can get here we'll take you in" policy with any other EU nations. It ignores long-standing common-sense international policy on refugees.

Also, it seems many countries are not properly checking documents and biometrics.

[Obie]

Germany is a sovereign national which does not need permission from any state to act in the interest of humanity.

[ouflak1]

Germany is a sovereign national which does not need permission from any state to act in the interest of humanity.

Germany imposes emergency border controls.

Greek authorities announced that 34 migrants, 15 of them children, drowned Sunday when their wooden boat capsized off the Greek island of Farmakonissi.

Looks like Germany has finally decided to start acting in the interest of humanity. This dying must stop. Taking these people in without restriction only serves the best interests of human traffickers (who could care less about human life, much less human 'rights') and people trying to win themselves a Noble Peace prize. It does not serve the best interests of these migrants or of the citizens of the EU whose resources are already being stretched beyond the breaking point trying to help these migrants.

One thing being lost in all of this is that some of these people are genuine refugees. How does encouraging this swarm of economic migrants help them???

[Obie]

When I read your post I feel really sad , that it demonstrate total ignorance of what refugee means, what the composition of these people are, and who are the majority that have entered this year.

You can use idiotic and senseless languages to describe fellow human being , and this speak a lot about you as a person, than the refugee.

The UN has assessed that the vast majority of the people coming are from Syria, Afghanistan and Iraq, where western policy has caused enormous chaos.

I think you have demonstrated extreme lack of understanding of what Germany is doing and this is unfortunate.

German has already absorbed 450000 this year.

It expects to accommodate 800000 this year.

Humans are not sardines, contrary to Hungary treatment, they need home , and basic necessity.

Germany has not reneged on its promises, however it needs time to absorb the refugees that had entered. A policy that any sensible person will understand.

The resolve of Germans to help and show compassion and basic empathy and human dignity has not changed or disappeared in any way. Contrary of course, to what you will like to believe.

[ouflak1]

When I read your post I feel really sad , that it demonstrate total ignorance of what refugee means, what the composition of these people are, and who are the majority that have entered this year.

You can use idiotic and senseless languages to describe fellow human being , and this speak a lot about you as a person, than the refugee.

Me wanting these people to stop needlessly dying, should say a lot about me. Anybody wanting this needless death to continue, especially disgracefully in the name of 'human rights' says a lot about that person.

Germany has already absorbed 450000 this year.

It expects to accommodate 800000 this year.

I think you have demonstrated extreme lack of understanding of what Germany is doing and this is unfortunate.

On the contrary, I am well aware that Germany, and indeed no European country, has enough resources to handle such an indefinite and growing influx of migrants. Indeed, that's basic economics and does not take much understanding at all. I don't know where you got the idea that Hungary is a wealthy country that has the resources to deal with a crisis like this, but let me assure that that idea is completely wrong. Before this mess, they were already barely dealing with the issues of keeping their own populace at an acceptable living standard. None of this helps them or the migrants there at all.

Humans are not sardines,

Would you mind explaining that to the human traffickers? They certainly seem to be packing them into these boats like sardines! These charlatans are selling dreams that are turning into nightmares and even death. Further they are being emboldened by Europe's response to this migrant crisis and sending even more. So you do not need to tell me that humans are not sardines. The ones who need to hear that message are the ones profiting the most right now. And that's not just the human traffickers either. There are a whole lot of people playing politics with these people's lives.

[ouflak1]

Austria will impose restrictions starting at midnight

Slovakia and the Netherlands impose border controls

Hungary shuts its EU border.

The great migration has led to the unraveling of one of the 28-member EU's signature achievements, its Schengen system of border-free travel across much of the continent.

At the border, migrants were close to despair. "I don’t know what I will do. I will wait to see. We have lost everything to reach this point.”

You haven't lost your life... yet... as many men, women, and children have lost. Those tragedies being buoyed forward by unscrupulous human traffickers looking for a profit, unscrupulous politicians looking for a Nobel peace prize, and human rights activists who ironically care more about their 'cause' than they actually care about the welfare of their fellow human beings.

[secret.simon]

I wonder if Germany and Sweden discussed their "if you can get here we'll take you in" policy with any other EU nations. It ignores long-standing common-sense international policy on refugees.

Indeed, Germany has thrown the equivalent of a Facebook party in a shared house, some of whose rooms doe not have any locks (the Schengen Zone). Thankfully, the UK insisted on having a lock and key (immigration controls) even in a shared house.

Germany is a sovereign national which does not need permission from any state to act in the interest of humanity.

Yes, it does. Germany is a part of the Schengen Zone and has responsibilities towards other member states of that Zone. It needs to consult other members of the Zone when it makes such decisions. It signed away some of its sovereignty when it joined the EU, the Euro Zone and the Schengen Zone. Indeed, I think Germany has lost more of its sovereignty than the UK because the UK negotiated opt-outs from the Euro (look at how well that is going), the Schengen Zone (which looks like it will implode under the weight of migrants) and the now-defunct JHA pillar of the EU.

Obie seems to have demonstrated some cognitive dissonance in his position on these forums. He is down like a tonne of bricks if the UK ever violates (in his opinion) any aspect of EU law. Yet, when Germany does the same (it unilaterally suspended the Dublin convention), it "is a sovereign national" [sic]. So, is violating EU law only valid if it relaxes immigration law? Is only one direction of travel permitted on that specific path?

Mind you, except Germany, Sweden and Austria, no other country in the EU wants those migrants. For the three to take a decision that affects atleast the entire Schengen Zone, without consulting anybody else and then tell everybody else to abide by that decision is sheer stupidity. I would not be at all surprised if this German decision leads to the end of the Schengen Zone.

The President of the Czech Republic summed it quite pointedly and quite well (in my opinion);

President Milos Zeman told Czech tabloid Blesk that they should be told three things when they arrive.
"The first one: Nobody invited you," he said. "The second one: When you're already here, you have to respect our rules as we respect your rules when we arrive in your country. The third one: if you don't like it, get out of here."

If they are in the EU as refugees, they live by our rules, not by those of their home country. They learn our language and behave like us.

I come from a community founded by religious refugees in an Asian country. When we landed on those shores hundreds of years ago (well before "human rights"), we were told we can keep our religion, but we must dress like the locals, speak like the locals and behave in public like the locals. We met those obligations to our adoptive country and I think that my community has been a credit to not just the country that gave us refuge then, but to all the countries we immigrated to in the future, as we have first-hand knowledge of integrating into local culture wherever we are.

USAToday wrote:Greek authorities announced that 34 migrants, 15 of them children, drowned Sunday when their wooden boat capsized off the Greek island of Farmakonissi.

I had warned of precisely this earlier in this thread. If the death of one child can allow in a few thousand migrants, the people smugglers will intentionally sabotage the journeys of a few dozen women and children to get the misplaced sympathy of emotionally susceptible Europeans. And yet, ironically, the vast majority of the refugees are young men.

[secret.simon]

Also, now with Jeremy Corbyn leading the Labour Party, we will now be seeing the Labour Party advocating for unlimited migration to the UK.

Kate Osamor, the Labour MP for Edmonton, said on air that she would have "no number" on the number of refugees to be allowed into the UK. She did quickly qualify it by stating that she meant a "fair share" of the migrants in the EU, "within reason". But what is a fair share and who is doing the reasoning? It is obvious on these forums that different people on these forums have different reasonings. Whose is the reasoning to use?

The full conversation is available as a podcast and Kate Osamor's contribution begins at approximately 10 minutes into the programs. The quotes above are at approximately 13:50 minutes into the programme.