understanding appeals - TRIBUNAL PROCESSES

[itiz]

Hello,
sequel to my last post. I have a few questions about appeals.

I understand in london in takes about 6 months before a hearing. I have been to a family court, where it was a private room with both representatives

1. What is the hearing/courts appearance like ?

2. Do they have adjournments ?

3. What If I am unsuccessful ? What are the basis of appeal to upper tribunal and others ? EU courts of human rights etc ?

--- and how long do these take individually ?

4. If all fails, how long would I be given to pack my bags and get on my bike ? and any options if others.


Am a bit overwhelmed as the whole process is long, tiring and intimidating

thanks
itiz

[peppekalle]

http://www.courtroomadvice.co.uk/what-h ... aring.html.
The judge will only adjourn your cae if there is a good reason.

If you are unsuccesful that is the end of the matter. You could try and ask for permission to appeal only if there is an error of law if the judge refuses thats it.

To go to the ECHR you need to have exhausted all local courts including the supreme court.Hope you have a lawyer representing you.If you loose your appeal it is better to leave asap cause if you get arrested and detained by the border agency you will be going with nothing other than the clothes on your back and this is normally within 72hours of getting a removal decision.

[Obie]

Also See FAQ

[itiz]

And if unsuccessful, how many days will i be given to leave the country, from the date of the hearing ???

lastly would i be able to make any further applications incountry ?

[Obie]

You mind should be focused on successful.

If you are unsuccessful, you will have a right to apply for Permission to appeal to the Upper Tribunal.

It could well be the case that the removal notice is flawed and unlawful if you had a lawful application before them which they refuse to vary.

They cannot make a removal notice at the same time as a refusal to vary a leave.

Provided of course you did not withdraw the decision, or consent to it being withdrawn

[itiz]

Thanks for the update. From my nasty experience with them, am taking no chances

i never knew about the unauthorized removal and even when i presented their claim as false in my ombudsman complaint to them, they were silent. As i sent them a print out from their website which states, my estranged wife would have to formally ( handwritten) request. Which never happened

am optimistic but very careful

[Zee ali]

You mind should be focused on successful.

If you are unsuccessful, you will have a right to apply for Permission to appeal to the Upper Tribunal.

It could well be the case that the removal notice is flawed and unlawful if you had a lawful application before them which they refuse to vary.

They cannot make a removal notice at the same time as a refusal to vary a leave.

Provided of course you did not withdraw the decision, or consent to it being withdrawn

I am not ageering with your statement @Obie

They cannot make a removal notice at the same time as a refusal to vary a leave.

HO is issuing S 47 removal notice with the refusal to vary leave.

[peppekalle]

If there is a notice of decision which combines both the refusal to vary leave to remain and the Section 47 removal, the Section 47 removal decision is unlawful but the substantive matters (refusal to vary leave) can and should be determined because both decisions are appealable.
http://www.freemovement.org.uk/two-side ... same-coin/

Zee ali the staff who make decisions could be ignorant of the law or just choose to ignore the matter.

[Obie]

Why do you say I am wrong?

Is it because that is what HO are doing or because of the law, I am confused

[aiza78601]

i today received letter from home office

actually my asylum is refused,i appealed and hearing is next month to ist tier,my husband and my daughter are my dependant in my claim

home office send removel notice today for my daughter and husband,they didt send for me please what should i do know y they want tio remove my family while my appeal is pending please advise me y they want to take away my daughter from me

[Zee ali]

Why do you say I am wrong?

Is it because that is what HO are doing or because of the law, I am confused

Because i received S47 removal notice with my variation of leave refusal.

I will fight about this in court.

[Obie]

Did they refuse your recent variation application.

[aiza78601]

i received 1s75 is76 and is151b for my husband and my daughter

they sent removel notice to my husband and my daughter they are dep in my claim and my appeal hearing is next month

[Zee ali]

Did they refuse your recent variation application.

yes Obie

I was refused in july 14 and appeal is pending

[Obie]

Well they cannot make a section 47 notice at the same time as a refusal to vary leave.

It could be done shortly after the other but not at the same time.

[Zee ali]

Well they cannot make a section 47 notice at the same time as a refusal to vary leave.

It could be done shortly after the other but not at the same time.

@Obie can u provide me with relevant case law that they can't issue both things together?

[Obie]

Your Solicitor would probably be aware of it.

Also see Ahmadi

[Zee ali]

Your Solicitor would probably be aware of it.

Also see Ahmadi

@Obie

Can we change paper hearing to oral easily? I read in the tribunal guidance that it's upto the judge. Do u ever heard that judge refuse this kind of request?

How early should we send them request to change paper hearing to oral?

My solicitor put my paper hearing just to buy time and now going to change it to oral.

Any suggestions??

[Obie]

It is up to the tribunal.


You could send a cheque with the difference in fee, and state the reason for seeking an oral rather than a paper hearing.

The Solicitor should be able to address these issues.

[peppekalle]

What reasons will your solicitor give for wanting oral hearing instead of paper hearing?I hope they have better reasons than wanting to buy time.

[Zee ali]

What reasons will your solicitor give for wanting oral hearing instead of paper hearing?I hope they have better reasons than wanting to buy time.

I do not know the reasons but he is confident that court will accept it. Because my case is all about to gain time to complete 10 years.

[Obie]

Your solicitor seems very incompetent.

He could have advised you on up to 4 ways to buy time, putting for a paper appeal does not seem like one, to the contrary, it serves exactly the opposite purpose.


In any event, your appeal does not seem bad, you could have succeeded on the section 47 point, a Judge could reasonably have allowed your appeal on the basis of the rules as you would possibly meet the requirement on the day of a hearing.

I have had to deal with incompetent solicitors on 4 different threads and private messages today.

People like those are every immigrant's worst nightmare.

[Zee ali]

Your solicitor seems very incompetent.

He could have advised you on up to 4 ways to buy time, putting for a paper appeal does not seem like one, to the contrary, it serves exactly the opposite purpose.


In any event, your appeal does not seem bad, you could have succeeded on the section 47 point, a Judge could reasonably have allowed your appeal on the basis of the rules as you would possibly meet the requirement on the day of a hearing.

I have had to deal with incompetent solicitors on 4 different threads and private messages today.

People like those are every immigrant's worst nightmare.

Thanks Obie for your reply.

But my appeal is not determined yet. We r not sending any papers now but a request to change the hearing.

I meet with 4 to 5 solicitors and all suggested the same way.

All of them said it never happened that they refused the request when u want the hearing change from paper to oral.

[Obie]

Well it is at the tribunal's discretion on whether or not to change it. I beg to differ with the 5 solicitors that took the view that it is automatic.

You have to be aware that sanction has been imposed on appellant or respondent who pursues frivolous appeal.

If the conduct of your solicitor seems frivolous, you may well see yourself facing a cost sanction.

[appealalready]

...To go to the ECHR you need to have exhausted all local courts including the supreme court...

@peppekalle's advice is misleading because it gives the impression that you have to appear before the Supreme Court prior to filing with the ECHR. You do not have to have been heard before the Supreme Court in order to file a claim before the European Court of Human Rights.

You can apply for judicial review through the Admin Court and possibly get heard before the Supreme Court. It is highly unlikely to make it to the Supreme Court.

You can also sue for damages through the County Court Money Claims Centre (CMCC).

In summary,
1.) You can apply for compensation against the public body via the County Court Money Claims Centre (CCMCC). If unsuccessful in your claim, you can apply to the ECHR.
2.) You can apply following a decision by the Admin Court. If you are refused to go further at any point, you can apply to the ECHR.
3.) You can apply without having gone to court, provided you have reasons why those options were not valid.