EC for wife (second marriage before the first was annulled)

I give up along with secret.simon and will agree to disagree. Good luck with everything Adnan, keep us updated on your application.

Casa wrote:I give up along with secret.simon and will agree to disagree. Good luck with everything Adnan, keep us updated on your application.

The document states it is Government policy to prevent the formation of polygamous households in this country. Well if you are married abroad then it does not lead to formation of polygamous households in this country. If you get divorced and then apply for settlement then it does not lead to formation of polygamous households in this country.

Thought the following (current) guidance may help find answer(s), hence sharing:

Guidance - Polygamous / potential polygamous marriages: SET14

Thanks for the link sushdmehta, but I've tried that and Adnan has rejected the information it contains as it's from Nov 2013 and he believes it's no longer relevant (including the flow chart).

Good to have you back by the way

You could be married to someone, then separate from him or her and then enter into a new relationship with someone else, and live as husband and wife out of wedlock and everything is ok. However if you don't believe in having a relationship outside of religious relationship you get looked down and it gets called bigamy. I find it strange.

Well should get decision sometime this month so not long to go now.

Adnan111,
It was first published in November 2013, but is "the" current guidance .... that is why it is on the website and not in the archives.

Casa,
Glad to be back. Thanks!!

sushdmehta wrote:Adnan111,
It was first published in November 2013, but is "the" current guidance .... that is why it is on the website and not in the archives.

Casa,
Glad to be back. Thanks!!

That's what I believed sushdmehta, but I gave up trying to get my point across.

sushdmehta wrote:Thought the following (current) guidance may help find answer(s), hence sharing:

Guidance - Polygamous / potential polygamous marriages: SET14

SET14.8 states: A polygamous spouse may apply for entry clearance and support the application by claiming that a previous marriage (which would otherwise disqualify him / her) has been dissolved.

This suggests that once the decree absolute is obtained they would consider the second wife as a spouse.

Just thought i'd add my experience relating to this discussion.

I know of 2 individuals who had married abroad in Pakistan and applied for their spouses to join them in the UK. The marriage didn't work out they ended up divorcing their spouses. But before they received there decree absolutes they had re-married in Pakistan (which is legal in Pakistan). However when it came to applying for spouse visa's they were both refused for the same reason. ECOs reasoning was that they were not free to marry their spouses under British Law. One of these cases were from 2010 and the other from 2014.

They were both clients of a family member who is a OISC advisor and a practicing solicitor for over 20 years. He advised them to re-apply via the fiance/ fiancee route and to explain why they were re-applying via the fiance route rather than the spouse route. Both were succesfull when re-applying.

@Alil2014,

Can you provide more details of the 2014 case? Adnan111's contention is that the rules in 2014 were different to the rules in 2010.

Adnan111 argues that a second marriage in Pakistan become legally recognised in the UK when the first marriage is dissolved, whereas Casa's and my understanding is that the second marriage is not recognised in the UK if it was held when the sponsor was not "free to marry" under UK law.

secret.simon wrote:@Alil2014,

Can you provide more details of the 2014 case? Adnan111's contention is that the rules in 2014 were different to the rules in 2010.

Adnan111 argues that a second marriage in Pakistan become legally recognised in the UK when the first marriage is dissolved, whereas Casa's and my understanding is that the second marriage is not recognised in the UK if it was held when the sponsor was not "free to marry" under UK law.

the refusal point was that:
ECO did acknowledge that the sponsor had obtained the Decree Absolute for the first marriage, however the sponsor was not free to marry under British Law before the decree absolute was issued so it wasn't recognised/void.

Another point is that "...for a polygamous marriage to be considered valid in the UK, the parties must be domiciled in a country where polygamous marriage is permitted, and must have entered into the marriage in a country which permits polygamy."
(source: http://www.parliament.uk/briefing-papers/sn05051.pdf)
Therefore British Law would not recognise the second 'marriage' as being polygamous because Adnan111 would not be classed as being domiciled in Pakistan where the marriage took place.

Definition of domicile: The country that a person treats as their permanent home, or lives in and has a substantial connection with.

The sponsor in this case would also be classed as being domiciled in the UK otherwise why apply for a UK spouse visa; which is pathway to settlement and citizenship in the UK?

Visa has been granted. Thank you all for your help and support.

Whew! Good news Adnan. Thanks for letting us know.

Casa wrote:Whew! Good news Adnan. Thanks for letting us know.

You really had me frightened there for a little while, especially with alil2014 chipping in towards the end so I kept my and wife's expectations low to avoid disappointment but I am glad that the legal opinion turned out to be correct, and I didn't have to go down the appeal route.

I appreciated your views and feedback although we disagreed, and it made me do more research which only confirmed the legal opinion I had obtained. I hope that others benefit from the clarity.

I'm sure they will Adnan. Sorry if we gave you a few sleepless nights. It shows how inconsistent ECOs are with their decisions, often forcing applicants to appeal.

Good to hear that your visa been granted. So just to confirm you applied for a spouse visa and submitted a decree absolute which post dated your 2nd marriage and this was accepted and visa granted. ECO did not mention that you were not free to marry your 2nd wife?. If that is the case then would appreciate if I could msg u personally and speak to u about it as I'm in same position

NZama1 wrote:Good to hear that your visa been granted. So just to confirm you applied for a spouse visa and submitted a decree absolute which post dated your 2nd marriage and this was accepted and visa granted. ECO did not mention that you were not free to marry your 2nd wife?. If that is the case then would appreciate if I could msg u personally and speak to u about it as I'm in same position

I was separated from ex wife for a few years and we were living in different cities in UK, then I got married abroad before getting decree absolute here. The application was for a spouse visa and not fiancé visa. The ECO accepted the decree absolute and accepted my marriage abroad as being valid. At any given time I was in a monogamous relationship although technically there was a period when I was legally waiting for a divorce here.

You can message me if you like, although I don't know what more I can add to what has already been discussed here.

Well, at least we have got clarity on this issue.

Can I request the mods to make this thread a sticky? This is a frequently asked question and I am sure that others will find this thread relevant.

Adnan,
Can you put me touch with the soliciter who gave you the legal opinion (name of firm, contact number). Thanks

Casa wrote:I give up along with secret.simon and will agree to disagree. Good luck with everything Adnan, keep us updated on your application.

I m in the same boat n very confused. Plzz advise me wether to apply for spouse visa or fiance visa?

Great news Adnan just need to clarify that your polygamous marriage was not considered a crime in UK ? as it was conducted in a country allowing polygamous marriage
as I am in the same boat as you
could you send me your solicitor contact details

Fahad55 wrote:Great news Adnan just need to clarify that your polygamous marriage was not considered a crime in UK ? as it was conducted in a country allowing polygamous marriage
as I am in the same boat as you
could you send me your solicitor contact details

Your situation is not quite the same as Adnan married in Pakistan. Have you read Casa's reply regarding the laws in Morocco in your own post?

CR001 wrote:

Fahad55 wrote:Great news Adnan just need to clarify that your polygamous marriage was not considered a crime in UK ? as it was conducted in a country allowing polygamous marriage
as I am in the same boat as you
could you send me your solicitor contact details

Your situation is not quite the same as Adnan married in Pakistan. Have you read Casa's reply regarding the laws in Morocco in your own post?

You should also read the posts by alil2014 in this thread, where the outcome was quite different to Adnan's. As CR001 has advised, read my points in your own thread on the Moudawana, where strict conditions are now imposed regarding the law on polygamy in Morocco.