Family Visit Visa Refused

Hi

I m living in the UK for the last 10 years. My parents visited me twice to UK and this time whey applied for the visa they refused the visa on the grounds
that my parents didnt mention the visa refusal to USA in 2004 or so.

USA visa was refused in 2003 or 2004, but now my parents have 10 yrs USA visa.

So we wrote a apology letter stating that we misunderstood the question and it was a genuine mistake. UK visa was refused on June 10th 2009

When we applied this time last week, this time my parents made sure they filled all the previous USA visa refusals and the UK refusal which was last month.

But this time the consular chaps says we didnt provide information on June 11th USA visa entry clearance. We never applied for any visa for june 11th, that should have been UK and in the passport the date is mentioned as June 10th. My parents put this information while applying this time.

It is a error from the consular side, how do we approach this matter.

If we again write a letter pay the fees again, will they really look into this.

We have alrady paid twice the fees.

All the other documentation from my side is right.....

Anyone please guide me....

Srini

hey Srini, can you clarify. Visit visa 1 was refused on June 10th. Your parents reapplied for entry clearance after this refusal and the reason given was that on Visit visa 1 you failed to disclose your USA visa refusal & explanation?

perhaps it would be easier if you just copied out the 2nd visa refusal into the forum so we all understand exactly what you are trying to say.

My experience is that reapplying after a rejection is a waste of time. Once rejected you don't stand a chance of getting a visa by reapplying. If you've been rejected twice already, I think you've even less chance of getting the visa '3rd time lucky'

If my interpretation above is correct then you are probably best advised to write a nicely worded "letter before action" (get a lawyer to do this which shouldn't cost more than £250) requesting they reconsider your case. not only that but ensure the letter says you are cc'ing the ambassador. Basically you are threatening them with a Judicial Review which means that you think they are not doing their jobs properly and you want the courts to intervene. This isn't some cr@ppy appeal. This is a proper court of a law open to public scrutiny. They'll back off at that point I reckon

Hi

I just got hold of the refusal form

It states

You were refused entry clearance for using deception by failing to declare USA entry clearance refusals on 11 june 2009. I m therefore refusing your entry clearance application under 320(7b) of immigration rules. Any future applications will also be automatically refused, for the same reason, under 320(7b) of the immig. rules until 11 june 2019.

Due to the aforementioned above I beleive you have sought to mislead my colleague about your immigration history. In view of this i m not satisfied your purpose in travelling to UK is purely for the reasons you state. I m not satisfied you meet the requirement of para41(i) and (ii) of the immig. rules

I therefore refuse ur application.


There should be some leniency given, They also came last year to visit me. This time they forgot to include the VISA refusal of USA which was 7-8 years ago and just for a small mistake, see what these brits r doing. I thot UK embassy was the most considerate and it seems like they r not.

In fact this time my father wrote a letter asking for apologies, saying it was a genuine mistake and they again refuse it.

I dont know exactly what to do now.

Srini

Ok, thanks for the clarification

I would like to see other forum members thoughts on this topic. But my opinion is that they have not considered all supporting documentation and evidence provided. They have not considered the merits of this particular case. I believe there is 0 chance this would be upheld in the courts. There is no right of appeal they've given you, correct? I really can't see the embassy wanting this to go to Judicial Review.

I can recommend my lawyer who is good (but busy) after he's finished putting some work I've asked him to do for me. I'll PM you his contacted details at the end of this week. His charge will be £250 for the letter in question

Ps: being kind, gentle, and the whole "softly softly" approach with the consulate is a waste of time. When I've been hard with them, I've had results fast

hi gino

They have given the tribunal appeal form along with this refusal letter.

They r just very adamant on the fact that we didnt declare a USA visa refusal which happened in 2004.

In fact last year they came and my parents would have filled the column and its a human error at the end of the day. The parents are aged and sometimes errors do happen. They in fact got 10 years USA visa also and have travelled many times to USA.

so i dont understand what i should do. if i leave like this they wont be able to re-apply till 2019. I want to appeal but not sure what should i include in it. Its just a human error (my parents were thinking once they got the USA visa and they have also travelled why to put the info, or may be they couldnt see in the passport in details, as the stamps are very feeble to see). This is really annoying.....may be I will have to rethink of me staying in this country and move back in cuple fo years...

yeah gino, let me know what needs to be done. give me ur numbers..etc

S

Appeal is easier to do, but you won't be able to claim costs if you win. Anyway, you'll have to appeal. The way it works is that the consulate will see the appeal documents before it gets sent to the AIT in the UK. If well worded, with the Ambassador cc'd, and with the threat of complaining to the Parliamentary and Health Service Ombudsman (they deal with complaints about public bodies including the Foreign Office) they'll give in and give y'all yo visaz

You can do the appeal forms yourself (it's not complicated) + write up your case but you need to be confident of your written & research skills. If I were you I would get a solicitor to do it for you.

hey gino

I just spoke to a lady on appeals and tribunals from this website.

http://www.ait.gov.uk/FAQs/faq2.htm

what the lady said is I can lodge a appeal, 2 forms each for mum and dad and put the supporting document or letter stating what has happened and send them. it will take couple of weeks for them to process the info. and they send the information to concerned consulate if they want to reconsider the case, if not, the trial will be held independently here and i can either opt for personal hearing or paper based and the outcome will be known.

I want to fight this case, i m just wondering how do i put a appeal to the Commissioner and parliamentary ombudsman as well.

S

Ok, you've 2 choices. Either you lodge directly with the AIT, OR you submit the appeal docs through the consulate. If you choose the latter there is a strong chance the consulate will change its mind and issue the visa before forwarding onto the AIT. IF you choose the former (AIT direct) you'll lose some time with all the docs going back 'n forth with the consulate. It all depends on how urgent the visa is for you.

Urgent: go through consulate first as there's a chance they'll issue the visa + warn them if this goes to AIT you'll be complaining to the commissioner once you win. Like I said make sure the Ambassador knows about all this

Non-urgent: go direct through the AIT coz when you win you'll be in a position to criticize the consulate.

If you go to the AIT you can represent yourself (I did) and save yourself some money. Opt for a hearing rather than postal decision as you can voice any complaints there.

Re: the Commissioner - it's not an appeals process. it's a complaint's process. They'll only consider your complaint AFTER the appeal has been held

Hi

First thing how do i let know the ambassador about all this.

I presume if i send to consulate again, they may refuse on the same basis.

I m not in a hurry and would like to take it to AIT and see what happens.

Afterall it was a genuine mistake and theres nothing to hide there. They came to visit me last year also and no problem. USA gave them 10 years visas in 2005 and 2008. so what is the refusal in 2003 got to do for them to enter UK. My father was in service at that time and they said they wont give.

I will present myself for the hearing and I would say at the end of the day, just for a small mistake they r depriving a man to visit his own who is nearing 65 years and who poses no harm to the society.

If still the AIT decides against us, then its a fate and may be that will be the deciding factor for me to go back.

S

The Ambassador will only get involved informally if the consulate are already looking at it. it's not officially his business to get involved in immigration matters.

So follow my advice if I were you: lodge AIT docs and supporting evidence to the Consulate including a letter explaining the events of this case + underline that you will be contacting the Ambassador regarding this and should it go to AIT and you win you'll be complaining to the Commissioner.

the Ambassador's name and contact details will be found on the country's embassy website.

Hi Gino

As you said there are 2 methods, one is

Urgent - to go through consulate. One of my friend applied for holiday visa 2years back and his applcn. got rejected. he appealed, what he did was went through the consulate, giving them 20 pages of document etc etc..when it reached here, seems like the judge was saying there 2-3 pages missing, seems like the consulate guys tore it off. but inspite of all this he won the case and has been given 2 yrs holiday visa by the consulate. What i feel is the consulate guys wont go back accepting its their fault as it might be a prestige issue for them.

I m preparing the documentation to appeal from here through AIT. I will present myself in person and want to see how it goes. My grounds are purely on basis that when they came last year to UK they must have given all the information. This time bcos of age my father couldnt understand the questino and left it blank. As such there is nothing to hide if one looks at the passports. Its a human error at the end of the day.

I hope I stand a chance, once i prepare the documentation. Atleast the judge will see from my perspective as well and then decide rather than just by law.

S

I think both of you are getting carried away with things here.

You have two options:

1. Reapply again and pay the fee, but make sure you give accurate information and documentary evidence.(Dont make same mistakes again)

2. If you dont want to no 1, then only option is to appeal against the decision.

By doing 2, the ECM at the BHC where you applied review the earlier decisions in light of what you point out in your appeal notice.

The ECM might change his mind and grant visa, with no additional charges involved.

If you have not convinced him enough, he will stick with the earlier decision and will pass the matter to AIT in Uk to fix hearing for date ( which will take 6 months). There you can argue your case and if you succeed the Adjudicator will authorize the granting of visa.

Now do you want to wait 6-9 months before above decision s reached or you can pay a total of £150 being the fee to reapply gain.

If you are going to appeal, you have to complete the appeal notice in a certain way and you have to send refusal notice with it. I would send notice back to the BHC and not AIT as it will take an extra 6 weeks doing the latter because AIT and HO will have to send notice to BHC. Therefore send it direct to BHC.

I wouldnt bother contacting the Amabssador, because he wont get involved . You are wasting your time doing that.

In your appeal notice clearly point out the errors of teh ECO and then keep your fingers crossed that they accept their errors

hi batleykhan

We in fact reapplied 2nd time and my dad put a covering letter stating it was a mistake and it was purely unintentional. but still they have refused on the first basis saying we didnt declare the USA visa refusal which happend 6 yrs back.

We also paid the fees but its gone down the drain.

If i just leave this, they wont be able to apply till 2019.

So I wonder why not give a try at AIT here and see what happens. At the end of the day everyinfo. is available in the passport. So there is nothing to hide. I will be applying on behalf of my parents. So is it of if i send the AIT Form 2 or do i need to send the visa refusal letter also. I got a scanned copy of it. I dont mind waiting for 3-4 months as theres nothing i can also do now. If I reapply again also i m sure the consulate guys wont go back on their decision.

As i said my ground of appeal would be it was a mistake they did and they are not that educated as well. So a 2nd chance should be given. In fact they came to visit us last year for 6 months. So the consulate should have all data with them. They also came in 2003.

I am also worried, but I have no option in this regard. The first refusal notice was sent on June 10th..so i have till monday 6th of july to send it by recorded post to AIT and see what happens. I will be acting as the sponsor.

S

on my JR comments, pls ignore as I thought for some reason there was no right of appeal of 6months visas. If appeal is given to you obviously take it.

batleykhan, agreed on submitting direct to the consulate for the reasons you've mentioned.

Re: reapplying a 3rd time, I can't believe you're suggesting that. Ok, the original application wasn't filed correctly, but by the sounds of things the 2nd was in tiptop shape and that was rejected too. From my personal experience DO NOT REAPPLY IF AFTER EXPLAINING YOUR CIRCUMSTANCES TO THE CONSULATE CLEARLY THEY REJECT YOU ONCE AGAIN. What I saw from the ECOs is that if ECO1 rejects, ECO2 will not reconsider a fresh application independently no matter what you say & evidence you submit.

Now, on complaining. I haven't used the Commissioner myself, but I will. Anything you do to make the ECO think "is this really worth me rejecting again" is worth it.
1 - no-one likes unnecessary work esp. anything resembling an audit/investigation with all the extra paperwork that'll need doing
2 - they all have employee profiles, careers to manage and something like a Commissioner investigating is no plus point. So any negative feedback will be bad for their career progression

On the Ambassador, no it's not a waste of time. Officially the Ambassador does not get involved in immigration matters. BUT he is still partly responsible for the running of the consulate. If you start complaining about the consulate legitimately and esp if you warn him of the possibility of commissioner/ombudsman delving into their dealings I know for a fact he'll ask questions. You can also get your MP to ask the Minister for Overseas offices to ask questions. All in, the more you warn them of the hassle you'll end up giving them, the better your chances they'll decide to "let sleeping dogs lie" (you being the dog!)

Hi Gino

I will fight back and put my applcn at the tribunal and see. Atleast judge will see from my perspective and then decide.

How do we complaint to Commissioner. I m preparing my case document, do i just send that to the commissioner as well. Do you mean to the commissioner at the consulate where it was refused.

Can you let me know on this.

S

re the Parliamentary and Health Service Ombudsman , AS I'VE SAID BEFORE, you complain AFTER the appeals tribunal and once the visas have been issued to your parents

DO NOT CONTACT THEM BEFORE! also they are based in London and have nothing to do with the consulate!! There are no "commissioners" at the embassy/consulate. They are ECO (Entry Clearance Officers)

Sorry, but please read the posts we put up carefully as I'm getting tired of repeating myself. Seriously, if you can't read through these posts properly and draw appropriate conclusions I don't see how you can win an appeal by yourself or complain to any ombudsman in the right way.

Hi all

I have won the appeal for my parents visa refusal.

I have been just told by my solicitor this

"I write to you to let you know that the appeal has been allowed and your parents will be issued with visa's in due course subject to no further appeal from the Home Office."

So I m wondering how many days does the home office have to appeal and if they dont appeal what happens next.

Will my parents back home will get a letter from the consulate asking to send the passports. If so do we have to use VFS to send the passports.

Do we also have to pay any fees, as i already applied twice the fees before my appeal.

Many thanks for all the people for the information.

I shall keep u posted on this.

Thanks

S

Congratulations Srini,

My parents are in similar situation, they were refused visit visa to US once but were granted 10 years multiple entries when they reapplied after 6 months.

Question is, how did Home Office find out that your parents were refused US visa? Is there any stamp on their passport?

Thanks

hi brandnew

There is no refusal stamp in passport, it just says applcn received with a date. If they dont find the visa with that date they think it was refused. So its a very stupid assumption.

in my case it was refused bcos my dad was working in the armed forces. after retirement they gave him 10 yrs multiple entry visa and for my mum they gave it before itself.

so its very stupid of the ECO to think on those lines...seems like the ECO will get a memo on his file for not taking the right decision. In fact as suggested i m would complain to ombudsman as well.

S

Thanks for the update,
In my parents case, there was no stamp saying ' Application Received' , i assume they will be ok or is it safe to mention when they apply for UK visit visa?

cheers

thanks very much batleykhan for the information.

my parents passport is expiring in six months and they have applied for a new one. they will get it in a month or so. so do you think it should be ok once they get a letter from consulate to submit both old and the new passports. Old one would be for reference.

In case they dont send any letter within 6 weeks, whom do we contact ? Is there a procedure and how do we apply. Do we have to go through the usual VFS or will they just tell us to send the passports directly addressed to them.

S

brandnew wrote:Thanks for the update,
In my parents case, there was no stamp saying ' Application Received' , i assume they will be ok or is it safe to mention when they apply for UK visit visa?

cheers

Hey

check ur parents passports, everytime one goes to embassy they put a stamp somewhere or the other. so better check it out.....you may be lucky if its not there. but i would say declare it when asked in the applcn form

S