ILR and family question. Please help

Sorry if this situation has been discussed before.

I was at the home office today, to apply for ILR, having been in uk for 10 years. i filled the application forms with my dependents which include 3 children(2 were born in the UK). I am on a permit free visa and my wife came to the uk in 1999.

I was granted ILR, but my family was not. i was told to fill the FLR(m) forms with my wife and children as dependents.

my questions are

1. is this a new rule, as my friends had applied earlier and irrespective of their wifes duration of stay not adding upto 10 years, all family members were granted ILR.

2. could i have added my children and not wife as dependents on my application form, so as to save time and apply for naturalization for the children born in uk, if they were granted ILR

any advise much appreciated.

OK you applied for your ILR on grounds of being legally in the UK for 10 years, and it was granted. But as you say your family have not been in the UK for that long so clearly did not qualify under the heading.

Your friends, they applied under a different heading? Not as a 10-year resident?

Let's now look at your family. Your two children born in the UK .... forget the ILR for them. You are now able to apply for them to be registered as British. This is because you have now got your ILR. After they have that the question of their visas becomes redundant. Look at this webpage and then download the Guide MN1, the form MN1 and the Fee Note.

Your wife and the other child? What visas do they have at the moment and what is the expiry date on those visas?

What is your intention? To apply for naturalisation once you have had your ILR for a year?

thanks for that.

ok i will apply for the 2 kids for naturalisation. my wife and youngest daughter are on the dependant visa ( i was on the permit free visa) and is due to expire end of january 2006.

i plan to apply for naturalisation at the end of one year.

ok i will apply for the 2 kids for naturalisation

Not quite .... the two children will be registered as British .... not naturalised.

Once granted it really make no difference but during the application process it means, for example, that your children don't need to worry about passing the Citizenship Test!

so regards my wife and other child, what would be the procedure for their visa extention, and could i have included the youngest childs details as a dependent in my ILR form?

thanks again

Chestdoc, can you clarify your UK visa history? I just want to make absolutely sure what the situation is. So please, when did you first come to the UK and on what type of visa? And same details of subsequent visas?

And the same for your wife and "not born in the UK" child please?

And when you say "I was at the home office today, to apply for ILR", you were at a PEO making an in-person application for ILR using the 10-year residence route?

By the way, Chestdoc, now you have your ILR, don't forget to make a claim for Child Benefit and also possibly Child Tax Credits.

ok john, here is my situation

i first came to the uk on the 19 jan 1996 and have been here since. got the PFT visa in july 1996 and it has been extended since then till now, it expires on 31 Jan 2006. my wife accompanies me to uk on 30 jan 1999, initially and since then has been on , i suppose dependent visa (leave to remain). 2 children were born in uk and the last one was born a year ago in india. our daughter born in india entered the uk on the entry clearance visa to join parents. we have had no long holidays and not been away for more than 3 weeks a year.

I was at the solihull PEOs to apply in person, and put down in the form family as dependents and applied on the basis of long term stay, 10 years.
officer looked at all dates on passport and said OK for ILR on my passport, but family will need to apply through another route. he was a nice chap, told me i could think about it and if needed i could send application by post with a covering letter explaining the situation to a senior case worker. i was a bit surprised at this, so he made me another appointment after the holidays, saying if i wanted to go ahead with my ILR i could, and to get more advise before applying regards the family.
he did mention FLR(M) form and advised the family to apply through this route.

thankfully he did not charge me the fees! so basically i have now till the holidays to wait for my next appointment and make some decisions with your help! i understand i was probably foolish to not have taken my ILR at the same time, but i just was not sure about it then.

i really appreciate your time to look through this matter.

Chestdoc, I must admit that I am more than a little confused by this. You say :-

I was at the solihull PEOs to apply in person, and put down in the form family as dependents and applied on the basis of long term stay, 10 years.

Can I ask, what form did you use to make the application? Was there just one application form? And all your family were entered as dependent's in that one form?

The thing that really confuses me if that you say this was a 10-year application but you have not yet completed 10 years! So I am not at all sure how you got even your ILR, especially as my understanding is that 10-year applications cannot be made in person at a PEO but must be submitted by post.

But have you got ILR in your passport? Yesterday you said "I was granted ILR, but my family was not." But today you are saying ".... saying if i wanted to go ahead with my ILR i could, and to get more advise before applying regards the family. he did mention FLR(M) form and advised the family to apply through this route. " ..... which sounds like no visa was actually issued yesterday. So certainly don't submit the MN1 forms until you actually have ILR in your passport.

i first came to the uk on the 19 jan 1996 and have been here since. got the PFT visa in july 1996 and it has been extended since then till now, it expires on 31 Jan 2006.

Can you be more specific? The visa that will end on 31.01.06 .... when did that start? And the visa before that, when did that start and end? And certainly as regards the current visa, what does it actually say on it? Can you quote all the detail inserted on to that visa .... apart from your name.

I am just trying to understand what is going on here. Currently I am just confused.

Finally, the joys of the Solihull PEO! That is where my wife and step-daughter got their ILRs back in 2002. But I understand it has been altered extensively since then.

hi john,

first visa issued on 19 jan 1996, "leave to enter for 6 months"
1st july 1996 "leave to remain" in the uk and subsequent visa are similar stamps till final stamp on passport on 1 august 2003 till 31.01.06.

i used the SET(o) forms at the PEO. yes, used only one application form with dependents details on the same form.

the details in the SET(o) form clearly state application can be submitted in person or by post, 4 weeks before the 10 year period(confirmed by case worker at the information help line)

as i understood it, long residence in uk(10 years) legally would make me eligible, well certainly the chap in the PEO seem to think so!

sorry to confuse you in my initial post, but the issue wasnt regards my ILR, but the options my family would have. I understand the children born in uk will be able to get citizenship after my ILR. but what would the options be for my wife and other child be, once i get the ILR?
thanks john.

I knew there was something confusing me here but I could not put my finger on it. But now having just looked at a form SET(O) and the facts as in your last message above, I wonder why you are making a 10-year application?

Looking at the SET(O), Section 2 ... page 4 of 20 ... starts by listing a number of categories in the right-hand column. The list is repeated with tickboxes on page 8 of 20. The second thing mentioned is "Employment not requiring a work permit". Does that cover your circumstance? If so why not apply on that basis rather than the sixth category, "Long residence in the UK"?

Totally possible I am missing something very obvious ... in which case you or someone else will no doubt point that out .... but in the absence of that, can you say why you did not tick "Employment not requiring a work permit"? You have clearly been here at least four years.

I ask because it is my understanding that converting your current "Employment not requiring a work permit" visa into ILR ... and listing all your family on pages 9 or 10 of the SET(O) will get them all ILR ... whereas applying on the basis of "Long residence in the UK" will not get ILR to anyone who hasn't been in the UK for 10 years.

Other views on this especially welcome.

I wondered about that option, but wasnt sure if a training doctor requiring a letter from post graduate dean to confirm training period would qualify as "employment". the visa extention through out my stay was based on continuing the training requirments.

I would be surprised if any other doctors out there would have applied in this category, but would value any further suggestions on this approach, if at all possible.

If not, i guess i will go back coming week and apply for my ILR and as suggested apply for the kids naturalisation. i guess the rest of the family will have to apply on the FLR(M) form to continue for 2 further years.

thanks

Please ... what does your visa say? As well as obviously having your name, and the from and to dates, it must give some detail about the type of visa. Could you please look at your visa and let us know what it say?

And now for the first time you have mentioned "training doctor". So when did you start in that category? And if it not a daft question, when will the training end?

john, the visa stamp does not mention my name at all, its more of a stamp, a set of numbers on the first line and then it mentions"leave to remain in the uk, on condition that the holder maintains himself and dependents without recourse to public funds is here by give until 31.01.2006 and the date given aug 2003.

i will be finshing training mid jan and eligible to apply for NHS consultant posts after, i could get the hospital to apply for work permit, but it may give me more options with ILR. does that help?

i started in this visa on the 1. july 1996, but came to uk for the exams etc 19 jan 1996

OK, so it looks as if your visa is covered by paragraph 70 et seq. of the Immigration Rules, "POSTGRADUATE DOCTORS, DENTISTS AND TRAINEE GENERAL PRACTITIONERS", as set out on this webpage. Would you agree with that, Chestdoc, that is the correct category?

If so this IND guidance to its staff is very useful. In particular if you read the part towards the end headed "Settlement" there is useful guidance.

So there is no direct route from your visa category to settlement. Even if you switched into HSMP or Work Permit employment, the time spent in the previous category would not get aggregated.

So the 10-year route seems to be the only one available to you. So I agree that you should go ahead and get ILR on that basis. As you have correctly realised with ILR you will have the ability to gain employment without the employer needing to get a Work Permit, nor you needing to apply for HSMP.

So as I see it :-

• you should apply for ILR on the basis of the 10-year rule, using form SET(O)
• your wife's application on FLR(M) should be submitted at the same time. She should include all three of the children on that form ... there is no additional fee for adding dependants in that way
• your wife will get, I think, a two-year spouse visa given that she will be married to someone who is "settled", that is, who has at least ILR. The children will get, I think, two-year child settlement visas
• I regret I think there will be two application fees to pay ... one for each form .... so if applying in person at a PEO that will cost £1000

I think all three of the children should be listed on the form FLR(M) because although the two born in the UK can be registered as British, that will not happen instantly you have your ILR. So it is important that everyone has a visa that has not expired.

After you get your ILR :-

• forms MN1 can be submitted for the two "born in the UK" children to register them as British
• when you have had your ILR for one year you should apply for naturalisation as British
• near the end of their two-year visas your wife and the "born outside the UK" child should apply for ILR
• assuming by then you are already a British Citizen, your wife and that one child should apply for British Citizenship, immediately after getting their ILR, as long as your wife was physically in the UK exactly three years before the date of applying

Does that help?

FANTASTIC John, you are truly god sent. God bless you for your advise. and hope you have a great year. I will let you know what happens on the 6th.
good night

Chestdoc, thanks for your comments ... appreciated.

Hope it all works out on the 6th ... and you end up with the Consultant's position you no doubt deserve!

A Happy Chritmas to you and all your family.

Hi John, Just to let you know i got my ILR today and will be applying for the family on dependent visa next week.

Thanks for your help.

Chestdoc, great news! And no doubt two-year visas for the rest of your family in the near future. For those visas are you again applying at the PEO in Solihull, or saving a few pounds by applying by post?

think i will apply in person, cant be asked with the postal delays and being without my passport.

hello again john

my family (wife and the 3 kids) have now got the dependent visa for 2 years, and i am in the process of getting the 2 kids citizenship.
my question is, can the kids apply for child benefit on the basis of my ILR? especially the child not born in UK and whose visa states, no recourse to public funds.

i will be following your advise from the earlier post. but it still surprises me regards my friends in similar situation having got ILR for the entire family( long stay category) even though, wife not completed 10 years time. maybe a different PEO, perhaps?

thanks

Chestdoc, congratulations it is all proceeding according to plan!

can the kids apply for child benefit on the basis of my ILR?

I think the strict answer to your question is no, but that is because children are not the claimants for Child Benefit!

Child Benefit is claimed by one person only. In the situation of your family your wife must not be the Child Benefit claimant because her visa will have a "No recourse to Public Funds" restriction. However you have ILR and therefore there is no problem whatsoever you making a claim for Child Benefit for all three children. Yes three! Your "born outside in UK" child is not going to claim any Public Funds! But you can claim benefit for them.

Also, as you say, proceed to get the two "born in the UK" children registered as British.

John wrote:
After you get your ILR :-

• forms MN1 can be submitted for the two "born in the UK" children to register them as British
• when you have had your ILR for one year you should apply for naturalisation as British
• near the end of their two-year visas your wife and the "born outside the UK" child should apply for ILR
• assuming by then you are already a British Citizen, your wife and that one child should apply for British Citizenship, immediately after getting their ILR, as long as your wife was physically in the UK exactly three years before the date of applying

One additional point here. It may well be that the child "not born in UK" can be registered as British at the same time as the original poster naturalises, without the need to wait for the wife to naturalise.

Perhaps it may be possible for him to apply for this child to have ILR immediately too? (even if the spouse has to wait).