NON EEA OPTIONS AFTER DIVORCE

Hi All,


My mother(Non EEA) has been married to an EEA since 1998. According to the Decree nisi recently received stated that her divorce will be completed mid-April (Decree absolute). New EEA regulations states that she wil be able to aply to retain the right of residence.

The question are the following:

Having had our EEA permit since March 2001 can we apply for permanent residence at same time?

In order to apply for P R Does she need to pass the life in the test?

Can my brother (23 years) and myself (26) working full time my sister 15 full time education apply for permanent residence separately or do we have to wait until my mother has passed the test and then apply as a family?

Your assistance in this case is greatly appreciated.

Kind regards

Being an EEA applicant, your mother doesnot have to pass the Life in UK test to apply for your PR. Were you all (you, your brother and your sister) furnished with the EEA residence permit back in March 2001?

Many thanks for your prompt response.

Yes, Our passports were endorsed since December 2001 with a residence permit as members of a EEA national.

Would you please correct me if am wrong but I understood that when we apply in April for permanent residence we do not require to submmit evidence that we have passed the life in the UK test bearing in mind that that we are non EEA.

I am very gratefull if could officially confirm this

Kind regards

Dear All,


I spoke with the Home Office today and according to them they stated that Non EEA family members have to do the life in the UK test before they can apply for permanent residence.


Would you please confirm If I was given the adequate and correct information

Many thanks

I believe that the information given by the HO is wrong and I still donot think that you have to give the test as you, inspite of being non-EEA are still going through the EEA route.

Pls see Question 11 on this FAQs. EEA nationals in the question is not applied to EEA national but to non-EEA family members of EEA nationals as well.http://www.ind.homeoffice.gov.uk/6353/1 ... eqanda.doc

They obviously would love to impose the test on the applicants, but they cannot.

Docterror wrote:I believe that the information given by the HO is wrong and I still donot think that you have to give the test as you, inspite of being non-EEA are still going through the EEA route.

Pls see Question 11 on this FAQs. EEA nationals in the question is not applied to EEA national but to non-EEA family members of EEA nationals as well.http://www.ind.homeoffice.gov.uk/6353/1 ... eqanda.doc

They obviously would love to impose the test on the applicants, but they cannot.

Life in the UK Test is not required for permanent residence under the European rules. However it is of course required should the person wish to apply for naturalisation as a British citizen.

JAJ, magata had only questioned about the necessity of the Life in the UK test for obtaining the PR. Its obvious from the FAQ link from the HO that the test is necessary were she to go on and get naturalised as a British Citizen.

Many thanks for your prompt response and co-operation in this case. However, I am still very confused after receiving the email below

From : <alan@*********.com>
Reply-To : <alan@*********.com>
Sent : 15 March 2007 12:35:29
To : <magata@*******.co.uk>
CC : <pam@*********.com>
Subject : Re: Non EEA TO APPLY FOR P R

Thanks

An application for permanent residency (ILR) in the UK is made under UK immigration law not EU law.

An EU national and family members may remain in the UK under EU law, but once they seek ILR, normally after 5 years residency in the UK, their application is considered under UK law.

We still await full guidelines as to who will have to sit the test and these will be released prior to 2 April 2007 by the Home Office.



----- Original Message -----
From: magata@********.co.uk
To: info@**********.com
Sent: Thursday, March 15, 2007 12:14 PM
Subject: Non EEA TO APPLY FOR P R

Dear Sir/ Madam,
Would you please confirm the following question: Is it true that the life in the Uk test pass certificate is not required for a non EEA to apply for permanent residence? The reason is that the right to apply for Permanent Residence is given by EU/EEA law, and the UK Government cannot add to the list of conditions required to be passed in order to apply for PR.

Kind regards

Especially because the information is simply wrong, I have edited out the details of the sender of that email.

The fact is that PR is granted in accordance with regulations passed by the EU, and then extended to the EEA and Switzerland. It is therefore not possible to impose extra rules, and accordingly those applying for PR cannot be forced to pass the Citizenship Test before being granted PR.

Magata, I believe we have done everything we can to put you at ease about you not requiring the Life in the UK test to apply for your PR. I can understand if you are perplexed about the whole thing inspite of our assurances had the letter you have posted above came from the HO. But as it is not from the HO but by some other "Immigration specialists", I would not even bother give it a second glance.

Actually, had it been I in your situation, I would write a letter back to who ever it was that send me that ridiculous advice thanking him for furnishing me with a mail that confirms that the HO is not yet implementing Regulation 15 of the Immigration (EEA) Regulations 2006 which is derived from Article 16 in Chapter 4 of Directive (2006/38/EC) by considering EEA applications under the UK immigration law and thus denying me the right of PR which is supposed to be automatic under EU laws. I would also ask him for further terrific advice so as to where I should take up the fight for the HO denying me my rights- to the European courts or to the British courts?.... but that would be just me!

I think this is a big complicated misunderstanding!

Magna, you wrote:

bearing in mind that that we are non EEA.

I spoke with the Home Office today and according to them they stated that Non EEA family members have to do the life in the UK test before they can apply for permanent residence.

Dear Sir/ Madam,
Would you please confirm the following question: Is it true that the life in the Uk test pass certificate is not required for a non EEA to apply for permanent residence?

You have been confusingly referring to yourself as "non EEA". While it is true that you are not EEA yourself, you and your mom definitely fall into the very important category of "family member of an EU/EEA citizen" (in spite of the divorce).

There are (at least) two forms of permanent residence in the UK.

The permanent residence you and your mother want to apply for is for a "Permanent Residence Card" for "family member of an EU/EEA citizen". This is free and should be a quick and easy application using form EEA4. You do not need to do Life in the UK test for this.

There is also ILR, which is a complicated very expensive application and which does require that you do the Life in the UK test. It is for people people who have immigrated to the UK on their own or are spouses of British citizens.

Because you have been describing yourself as "non EEA", people at the Home Office and the person who responded to your email thought you were applying for ILR.

Call the Home Office back and ask the same question again, but this time describe yourself as "family member of an EU/EEA citizen". They will tell you that you do not need to do the Life in the UK test.

An EU national and family members may remain in the UK under EU law, but once they seek ILR, normally after 5 years residency in the UK, their application is considered under UK law.

Directive/2004/38/EC, from the above statement that is a part of the reply to the mail magata received, it is quite clear that whoever advised her knew exactly what she was looking for inspite of the terminologies used.

But what is painfully clear is that such "advisors" still have not updated their knowledge about the fact that PR for EEA nationals and their non-EEA family members is no longer considered under UK immigration laws as it used to be prior to 30th of April 2006 but under EU rules. How many other people would they continue to put at "ease" with their disinformation if they have not yet realised their mistake almost an year into its implementation ?

I agree that the person writing the email to Magna clearly did realize she was family of an EU national. And then they explicitly refer to ILR? Curious!

Magna, what category of person was the email reply from? Was it from a normal lawyer (like your mum's divorce lawyer)? Was it from somebody who would be willing to help you out (for a fee) to apply for ILR, like an immigration advisor? Somebody else?

Question for JAJ: When applying for naturalization, is there any benefit at all to having ILR instead of a European-law Permanent Residence Card?

I am very gratefull to all of you for receiving all this excellent, accurate and concise information which really clarify and rest our minds.

Certainly, it really shows that you are all well experienced and very educated on this matters.

The advice that I posted previously was given from an immigration specialist who assisted us with an application for EEA family permit years back.

I do not mean to be a pain but would you please assist us with the following queries:

Would you please advice me if we have to use the services of a solicitor to apply for the retention of the right of residence and permanent residence?

Do we each need to fill an EEA4 form or can mother include us in her application as dependents?

What evidence have to be included with the application?

What the covering letter should say?

Any further information is greatfully appreciated

With anticipation, I really appreciate your assistance and co-operation in this regard.

sorry nothing to add, following the thread and just wanting to be flagged if there are any responses.

Directive/2004/38/EC wrote:Question for JAJ: When applying for naturalization, is there any benefit at all to having ILR instead of a European-law Permanent Residence Card?

No difference. Cutting out some technical issues, the naturalisation criteria only specify that permanent residence must be held. No provisions specifying how that status is obtained.

Magata,since no one else has taken a crack at it yet I will add a few words.

magata wrote:Do we each need to fill an EEA4 form or can mother include us in her application as dependents?

It has not been clearly mentioned whether you, your brother and your sister are non-EEA family members of an EEA national or EEA family members of an EEA national. I would assume that you are all non-EEA family members from all points outlined by you about the case and suggest using only one EEA4 form with your mother filling in Section 1 while you, your brother and sister fills in Section 2.

Would you please advice me if we have to use the services of a solicitor to apply for the retention of the right of residence and permanent residence?

Do you have to use the services of a solicitor? No! Its is not a necessary requirement.

What evidence have to be included with the application?

Evidence that your mother, you, your brother and your sister has been resident in the UK exercising the treaty rights for a continuous period of 5 years. For example- if your mother has been working for the past 5 years, her payslips with the P60s along with evidence that you all have been residing here in the UK like utility bills, correspondence to the same address etc should be submitted with the application.

What the covering letter should say?

A lot of this including what evidence to submit, whether or not a solicitor is to be used, what the covering letter should say etc is left to your discretion. Pls note that here at this forum we are just a group of people trying our level best to help inform you about what are the right steps to follow from the experiences we had and from the information we have so that others in need can find it easier. Spoonfeeding is not something that should be expected but rather taken gratuitously if you were to come across some and by no means should what we say be taken as binding legal advice.

So use your own judgement and as long as it does not tell you to go back to that Immigration Specialist who replied to you with that wonderful email, you should be fine.

magata wrote:Would you please advice me if we have to use the services of a solicitor to apply for the retention of the right of residence and permanent residence?

You are not required to use a solicitor, and I personally don't think it is necessary. But, because your situation is not fully straight forward, I would definitely encourage you to get some specialized professional advice.

(To give you my personal opinion, I am rather uncomfortable with the reply from your families's (previous) advisor. I would strongly suggest that you do not rely exclusively on their advice. Even if they do not charge you any money for advice, I would definitely still get other opinions.)


I would definitely submit a request to the EU's free Citizens Signpost Service. They provide free advice to citizens about EU law. You can submit the request in the language of your choice. http://ec.europa.eu/citizensrights/

IAS provides advice and seem to have a lot of experience.
http://www.iasuk.org/C2B/document_tree/ ... egoryID=36

There is a discussion of divorce and EEA status at http://www.immigrationboards.com/viewtopic.php?t=14240 which is worth looking at.

Once again many thanks to all of you for your understanding and patiente with this case.

I think that I will fill the application myself after my mother's divorce is terminated in April.

I really appreciate it if you have any further advice with regards to the steps to be taken as to ensure that nothing is missed when we apply for retention of right of residence/pemanent residency

KInd regards

The information was officilally published by an immigration specialist company which basically confirms and reinforce what you have been saying:

Dear Clients,

IMPORTANT CHANGES FOR THOSE APPLYING FOR PERMANENT RESIDENCY IN THE UK

I enclose details of the langauage test that Home Office - IND is to introduce on 2 April 2007 for those intending to apply for indefinite leave to remain in this country.

From the above date all those lodging new applications for indefinite leave to remain aged 18 - 65, must have passed the test.

This does not apply to EU nationals or their family members who intend to apply for indefinite leave to remain.

http://www.ind.homeoffice.gov.uk/6353/1 ... eqanda.doc

New style application forms - SET(M), SET(O), SET(F) will shortly be avaialble on the Home Office web-site at www.ind.homeoffice.gov.uk

Clients who intend to apply for further leave to remain in the United Kingdom - FLR(O), FLR(S), FLR(M) etc will not be affected by the above changes.

Those passing the Life in the UK Test for settlement will not have to sit the test again when they apply for naturalisation as a British Citizen.



Regards

Dear Directive/2004/38/EC, John,Docterror

Please be informed that I filled completely and sent our application for Permanent Residency (EEA4) mid- April and received the acknowledgement letter 1st week of May informing us that the a decision will be taken within 6 months.

Please note below the covering letter that was enclosed with the application and Docs



European Applications EEA4
Immigration and Nationality Directorate
Lunar House
40 Wellesley Road
Croydon
CR9 2BY


Dear Sirs,


With reference to case No ******* and having resided in the UK for the required continuous period and exercised the treaty right in accordance with the EEA Regulations, would you please note and accept our application for Permanent Residence Card enclosed. Please also find enclosed my original Divorce Certificate as evidence that my marriage is not longer subsisting and therefore qualify for Permanent Residence under the terms of Regulation 10(5), 15(1)(f) (Immigration European Economic Area) Regulations 2006.

Please also, note our previous and current passports as well as supporting documents enclosed. Pre-paid Special Delivery envelope enclosed for return of documents.

With anticipation, I really appreciate it your assistance and cooperation in this regard.

Yours sincerely


Name


I will try to mention when I have time the list of Docs that we submitted.

Guys What is your opinion with regards to the above letter?