Older dependent relatives

kuruvi · Post by **kuruvi** » Sat Sep 28, 2013 12:53 pm

kahn
Thank you. You have been advising us to wait patently and it has paid off. It was a complex application and I can appreciate UKBA for considering all the evidences provided. It would have taken considerable time to check.

Thanks

sohailkhan · Post by **sohailkhan** » Mon Sep 30, 2013 11:55 am

Hi,
I applied as a adult dependent for Bro-in-law from pakistan back in May 2013 for permanent settlement. He 2. He suffers from Autism, He was refused on the basis he can get medical treatment and care in Pakistan, so I appealed, Now I have date for court hearing coming soon.
Can anyone share some advise what I should expect / prepare for the court hearing. Is there anything I can do to help my bro-in-law case. Your help/advise will be much appreciated.
Thanks.

famous · Post by **famous** » Fri Oct 11, 2013 9:47 am

Hi Sohail,
Im sorry i dont have any answer for you. Rather i have a question as im also in a similary situation as yours applying for a dependent relative. Can you pls tell me that did u give any evidence of his autism and also share teh list of documents that you provided?

I will be grateful for your help.

Sam6301 · Post by **Sam6301** » Fri Nov 08, 2013 10:08 am

Hello,

I would like an advise on the following if people could help.

I am my a British citizen and applied for adult dependent for mother. The visa was refuse on below basis.

1. A maid could be hired to take care for your mother for doing all household work.

2. If not there are many care home in Gujarat for her illness and they provide all services.

3. They might be some relatives who are willing to support your mum.
4. Your brother is also in UK and on tier 1 immigrant why can't he resume his life back in India .

Docs submitted with visa as evidence were :

1. Fathers's recent death.
2. Mother was ongoing illness grief, and mentally not sable due to the incident.
3. My brothers docs and views on opening a firm in UK.
4. Also stated my wife who is indian and British citizen doesn't work and she signed that she will take care full time to support mum.

5. Bank fund were no problem.

6. We mentioned that our house is quiet in rural area and it's a village.
7.we had also looking for care taker for mum in India but couldn't find any due to the distance traveling everyday.

We mention all this on covering letter and my mum file was prepared by solicitors in UK.

BHC didn't refuse us on any medical or financial grounds but their decision was made in above points.

I would like an advise how can I prove that maid are really not available to my house. City is about 15km away from my house and also there are farms near to my house . Basically it's a village and farms

Please advised me

Regards.

MPH80 · Post by **MPH80** » Fri Nov 08, 2013 9:23 pm

please post the exact text of the refusal.

sanky_001 · Post by **sanky_001** » Thu Nov 14, 2013 10:40 am

Have you tried considering Surinder Singer route? The chances of success rate in Adult Dependant Visa now is very slim. I have an elderly mom whose situation is similar to yours and in a span of 2 years if the Adult Dependant Visa criteria doesnt change, I will be considering Surinder Singer route.

Sam6301 wrote:Hello,

I would like an advise on the following if people could help.

I am my a British citizen and applied for adult dependent for mother. The visa was refuse on below basis.

1. A maid could be hired to take care for your mother for doing all household work.

2. If not there are many care home in Gujarat for her illness and they provide all services.

3. They might be some relatives who are willing to support your mum.
4. Your brother is also in UK and on tier 1 immigrant why can't he resume his life back in India .

Docs submitted with visa as evidence were :

1. Fathers's recent death.
2. Mother was ongoing illness grief, and mentally not sable due to the incident.
3. My brothers docs and views on opening a firm in UK.
4. Also stated my wife who is indian and British citizen doesn't work and she signed that she will take care full time to support mum.

5. Bank fund were no problem.

6. We mentioned that our house is quiet in rural area and it's a village.
7.we had also looking for care taker for mum in India but couldn't find any due to the distance traveling everyday.

We mention all this on covering letter and my mum file was prepared by solicitors in UK.

BHC didn't refuse us on any medical or financial grounds but their decision was made in above points.

I would like an advise how can I prove that maid are really not available to my house. City is about 15km away from my house and also there are farms near to my house . Basically it's a village and farms

Please advised me

Regards.

broadacre · Post by **broadacre** » Fri Nov 22, 2013 11:01 am

Anndeep wrote:Hello,
I would like to bring my mum as an elderly dependent on my ILR after one year. What all should I do to prepare for this? She is in her 70s, a widow and no other sibling. How can I show that she is financially and emotionally dependent on me? What else do I need to do from now onwards? On one hand UKBA is saying that elderly relative should be incapable of performing everyday tasks themselves such as washing, dressing, cooking. Then the elderly relative should not employ any carer, domestic helper to do this (inspite of sponsor in UK sending money). What kind of documents are required for this? She has been visiting me as a visitor on six months visa and has been to UK 8 times without breaching any rules. I will appreciate any advice on this matter.

Thanks

Hi Anndeep,

I am in similar situation, would really like to know how you did proceed.
or how you planning to do anything about it.
I spoke to one solicitor this morning and he said chances are next to impossible after the last year's rule changes.

BR,

Shiftingsands · Post by **Shiftingsands** » Mon Nov 25, 2013 12:42 am

broadacre wrote:
Anndeep wrote:Hello,
I would like to bring my mum as an elderly dependent on my ILR after one year. What all should I do to prepare for this? She is in her 70s, a widow and no other sibling. How can I show that she is financially and emotionally dependent on me? What else do I need to do from now onwards? On one hand UKBA is saying that elderly relative should be incapable of performing everyday tasks themselves such as washing, dressing, cooking. Then the elderly relative should not employ any carer, domestic helper to do this (inspite of sponsor in UK sending money). What kind of documents are required for this? She has been visiting me as a visitor on six months visa and has been to UK 8 times without breaching any rules. I will appreciate any advice on this matter.

Thanks
Can we jointly take a legal action?
Hi Anndeep,

I am in similar situation, would really like to know how you did proceed.
or how you planning to do anything about it.
I spoke to one solicitor this morning and he said chances are next to impossible after the last year's rule changes.

BR,

Sam6301 · Post by **Sam6301** » Sat Dec 21, 2013 3:18 pm

I got a refused for adult dependent can I go for visitor visa ?

MPH80 · Post by **MPH80** » Thu Dec 26, 2013 10:12 pm

Sam6301 wrote:I got a refused for adult dependent can I go for visitor visa ?

You're more than welcome to try - but having already announced an intention to UKBA for your adult dependant to settle here ... how are you going to prove they have sufficient ties to return to their home country?

Basically - you've ruled out future visitor visas by applying for a settlement visa.

Sam6301 · Post by **Sam6301** » Sat Dec 28, 2013 8:54 am

MPH80 wrote:
Sam6301 wrote:I got a refused for adult dependent can I go for visitor visa ?
You're more than welcome to try - but having already announced an intention to UKBA for your adult dependant to settle here ... how are you going to prove they have sufficient ties to return to their home country?

Basically - you've ruled out future visitor visas by applying for a settlement visa.

We have property and liquidity on mothers name also a house . A bank locker only she have an access. And the medical condition that she can travel only in summer coz of cold

saminkhan · Post by **saminkhan** » Sun Dec 29, 2013 2:43 pm

Hi

I applied for my parents and disabled brother before the rules changed in July 2012. They were here on a visit but looking at their health situation we had to apply in country. The solicitor advised us to apply outside the rules on human rights basis because of my brother's condition as it was going to go to human rights basis anyway. In hindsight i dont think that was a good advice but we went with that.

The decision was a no based on all sort of reasons like there were 'no compassionate circumstances' and 'they dont have a family life' etc.

We challanged the decision but the appeal judge made another bizzare decision; while agreeing to the fact that there are definately compassionate circumstances, and there is a family life now as they have spent two years with me and are dependant on my help both financially and care wise but he is not in a position to make a decision and he referred it to Home Office to make a decision under rule 317. He also requested them to make an urgent decision as my parents and brother are not in the best of health and have been waiting for two years now.

Both myself and my solicitor are surprised with the decision and now Home Office has applied to go to appeal against tribunals decision.

Can the expert advise on what they think the options are and does the above decision make any sense.
Secondly, does anyone know which part of the rules apply to Article 8 and human rights issues post rules changes.

Many thanks

MPH80 · Post by **MPH80** » Tue Dec 31, 2013 2:55 am

Well - your option (not options!) is to let the home office appeal and see what happens!

But I don't think the judge just said "I'm not in a position to make a decision" - he'll have said "because of reasons x and y I can't make a decision" ... without that bit of understanding - we can't help. So if you have the text of his judgement and want to post it - we can help more.

The article 8 rules are spread around the rules now depending on the criteria - but the basic overview of them is here: http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/sitec ... am-mig.pdf

saminkhan · Post by **saminkhan** » Tue Dec 31, 2013 3:34 pm

Thanks for your response. Here is the text from the decision letter:

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
There is clearly a family life present between the three appellants and their family members who are already settled here. That said, I find it is not appropriate for me to go onto consider the nature and extent of that family life because I am of the view that the appellants should be afforded the opportunity of their circumstances being considered, albeit those relevant to when they were back in Pakistan, under the family settlement provisions contained in para 317 of the immigration rules.

I make no criticism of the respondent here; it is understandable that she would consider the applications as they were made by the appellants. However, it is only right that the appellants should be in the best possible position with their applications and this requires a consideration under para 317 as mentioned. I am not able to make that determination myself as this was not a matter before me nor was it one, as stated above, that was considered by the respondent. I make the point in passing that the first and second appellants are both frail and the third appellant has, to any observer, a significant disability; in the circumstances, a timely consideration by the respondent would be very much appreciated. It follows therefore that the appeals are allowed before me to the extent that they are remitted back to the respondent for a decision by here under para 317 of the immigration rules

Decision

I allow the appeals to the extent mentioned and remit them back to the respondent

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I am totally lost and dont know why he couldnt just say yes or no. My solicitor said that we are not able to appeal against this decision.

Any comments will be highly appreciated.

Thanks

MPH80 · Post by **MPH80** » Tue Dec 31, 2013 3:49 pm

So I think I understand.

Basically - the judge said ... "look - you applied outside the rules ... and yeah - they've got a family life - and you probably qualify under the 317 rules ... but because you were appealing an article 8 application - I can't rule on whether you ACTUALLY qualify under 317 ... because that's not what you applied under. So I'm going to let UKBA re-consider your case under 317 and see what happens from there."

He's giving your family an opportunity to be on leave to remain within the rules rather than outside it. It's a good thing. (Although UKBA appealing it isn't!)

M.

saminkhan · Post by **saminkhan** » Tue Dec 31, 2013 5:01 pm

MPH80 wrote:So I think I understand.

Basically - the judge said ... "look - you applied outside the rules ... and yeah - they've got a family life - and you probably qualify under the 317 rules ... but because you were appealing an article 8 application - I can't rule on whether you ACTUALLY qualify under 317 ... because that's not what you applied under. So I'm going to let UKBA re-consider your case under 317 and see what happens from there."

He's giving your family an opportunity to be on leave to remain within the rules rather than outside it. It's a good thing. (Although UKBA appealing it isn't!)

M.

Thanks. What difference it makes to the applicant; whether it is the leave within the rules or outside the rules. Its the same 2.5 years leave in both scenarios as the initial application was made outside the rules. Why couldnt he just allowed the appeal instead of sending it back to UKBA.

MPH80 · Post by **MPH80** » Tue Dec 31, 2013 6:20 pm

An application under 317 is for immediate indefinite leave to remain.

http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/polic ... sandother/

Cockney_007 · Post by **Cockney_007** » Sat Jan 18, 2014 2:38 pm

I have been following this issue closely and it seems it is very hard to bring a older dep over to the UK (which I think is wrong especially if the family can financially cover any cost). However, I have just read the following article in the daily mail -:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... efits.html

How did this happen? I am probably missing something obvious. I have read cases in this forum who, in my opinion, have a much better case but are refused. Any expert explain this to me

MPH80 · Post by **MPH80** » Tue Jan 21, 2014 4:57 pm

There's a significant lack of detail in this story - but that's usual for the daily mail. It's a bit like when the press claimed the guy had managed to invoke Article 8 over a cat - not true - there were huge circumstances in his favour, but the cat was mentioned in the judgement. Ergo it was the defining reason as far as they were concerned.

Given the article doesn't mention why her daughter was here in the first place - and the press are using the phrase 'reunited' - that suggests her daughter is a refugee and she was coming under this section of the UKBA website: http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/visas ... y-reunion/

But we just don't know - and we don't know because the press has spun the story.

avjones · Post by **avjones** » Fri Jan 24, 2014 12:39 am

Please don't rely on an article in the Daily Fail for legal advice!

It is now very, very difficult to get a visa for an adult dependent of any type, whether under or over 65 years of age.

mcg · Post by **mcg** » Mon Jan 27, 2014 11:01 pm

Hi - it is my suspicion that I am fighting a losing battle with this - but I will ask anyway, and I thank you in advance for your help.

I am a dual-nationality british citizen, with an American passport. I was born in the United States and moved to the UK with my parents when I was 4 years old. My father is a UK national and I have two younger siblings who only hold UK passports. My mother is American.

My parents divorced when I was about 15 years old and my mother eventually moved back to the United States. Because my younger sisters and I were pretty old, the visa and nationality situation of our mother was never much of a concern. She worked in the United States and to all intents and purposes appeared to be set to stay there for the remainder of her life.

I am now 35 years old - have a family of my own and have lived in the UK throughout the interim duration.

My mother is in her 60s now and has become mentally unstable. She is delusional and lives in an assisted care establishment in New York City - where she has no family or direct relations to assist in her care.

I am unable to move back to the United States easily because of my english children and wife. Not to mention work commitments. My sisters hold very little claim of a US citizenship. And my mother since divorcing my father appears to have no rights to live within the United Kingdom despite over 15 years of residency, marriage to a british man and three British children.

I would like to bring my mother back to the UK to be close to family. What are the possibilities in my situation?

avjones · Post by **avjones** » Tue Jan 28, 2014 1:11 am

The first thing to do would be to check exactly what your mother's position was when she did live in the UK. It sounds as if she might not be in a position to give accurate information herself, but does she have legal paperwork that can be checked? Might your Dad know?

She lived in the UK from when you were about 4 years old to when you were about 15, if I understand it. It's more than possible that she acquired British nationality during that time. It's not something an adult in your mother's position would have acquired without actively applying for it, but she might well have done so, and you were too young to know or care? She must have had some kind of immigration status when she lived here. What, for example, do her old American passports say? Indefinite Leave to Remain would usually, at the time, have been a big stamp or sticker taking up a page or so of her passport.

If that doesn't help, or no-one's sure, the next thing to do would be a subject access request to find out what, if anything, the Home Office knows about her immigration history. That might not produce huge detail, because by the sound of it she stopped living in the UK about 20 years ago, but would definitely be worth a try.

What to do after that depends on the results of the above investigations, really.

Trying to get a visa as an non-EU national elderly and / or dependent relative is now a very, very difficult procedure, so should be your last resort, not your first.

These situations are all fact-specific, please bear that in mind. The devil's in the details, so it's very hard to give precise answers, it all depends on the exact immigration history, and her exact factual position now.

These are the relevant provisions of the Immigration Rules for applications made after July 2012:

http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/polic ... relatives/

Amanda

ADR_Challenge · Post by **ADR_Challenge** » Wed Jan 29, 2014 5:34 pm

Hi, I thought this information could be useful to some people who have been posting in this thread. I hope it is helpful and look forward to seeing you at the next meeting!

The Joint Council for the Welfare of Immigrants (JCWI) is currently undertaking research, funded by the Strategic Legal Fund (SLF), to investigate the impact the July 2012 family immigration rule regarding Adult Dependent Relatives is having on families in the UK, with the ultimate aim of launching a legal challenge
As a result of the rule changes, it is now near impossible for British residents and citizens to bring a non-EEA adult relative who is dependent on them for care to live with them in the UK.
From our initial contact with families we have found that, as a result of this rule, children are being denied important contact with grandparents, families are struggling to cope with the joint burden of childcare and remittances sent to elderly relatives abroad, and many families are facing tough decisions about whether to relocate in order to care for their elderly relatives, thereby uprooting their lives in the UK. For more information about the immigration rules and our research, please see our website: http://jcwi.org.uk/policy/adult-dependent-relatives
We want to hear from affected families, in order to put together a research document that highlights the plight this rule is causing. Please download a questionnaire from our website, or get in touch by emailing adr@jcwi.org.uk
We are organising public meetings across the UK (Birmingham, Edinburgh and London) in order to reach out to affected families, providing them with information about the rule changes, as well as advice and information about our research and how we aim to challenge this Immigration Rule.

The next meeting is tomorrow, 30 January 2014 at Usurp Art Gallery in Harrow, starting at 6pm email adr@jcwi.org.uk if you would like to attend.
Our follwing meetings will be held in:
Edinburgh 20th Febuary 2014, Quaker Meeting House
London, 27th February 2014, Whitechapel

Charlotte Peel

RANA-ALI · Post by **RANA-ALI** » Mon Feb 03, 2014 2:57 am

Hello all,
Need ur help guys, i ll be really really thankful for any advice regarding my mum case . Actually we are the victim of poor immigration advice from solicitors , who are more interested in ur money then ur life, i can not imagine that how solicitor could risk someone future for the sake of money and just to do experiment ....wish i could have come to this forum in 2008 before submitting my mum's application .
Since 2008 we submitted 3 application for dependant parent ILR, countless representation and used two solicitors ,
But application outcome remained same(refusals )
Now the its been over a year since we made review request after last application. Not heard any thing back yet. All family really desperate now to get any legal stay, even 2 yeas back when the solicitor advice us to make another application i insisted if we could send flr o but the solicitor said no its best to send again parent ilr application again,
I humbly request can any one suggest any good solicitor in bradford, Manchester or leeds who care about people life more then money.. We just have no idea what to do.. My mums has number of health issues and back home no one could look after her as we all live in uk.just one sister living back home who is married and she has looks after her in laws and her children, home office keep refusing by saying our sister lives there and my mum extended family lives there as well and they could look after her ?????? But how .. H.O just not willing to understand this by putting there selves in this situation.. In thier culture even ur grown up kids dont look after them how can possibly they expect extended family to look after some one with health issues. Who will b there 24/7 ?
Please any suggestions any helpful link will be great..
I think we cant go to JR now? Can we go to ECHR
sorry i dont know much about it , do u think we still could do any thing or we should give up on our hopes ?

avjones · Post by **avjones** » Mon Feb 03, 2014 10:23 am

I imagine your mother's been refused under paragraph 317 (v), "has no other close relatives in his own country to whom he could turn"?

If so, it's so fact-specific, that you need particular advice on the prospect of success in this particular case. As to whether JR, appeals etc are a realistic option, again, you need specific advice.

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