Spouse visa- passport certification advice

Hi there, i'm a british citizen living and working in the UK and marrying a japanese girl over in japan. She's going to be applying for the spouse visa over in japan. I need to send her a 'certified' copy of my passport but nobody has been able to tell me exactly how to go about getting it certified. From what I gather it has to be done by a solicitor, but does it have to be a specific kind of solicitor or is any solicitor ok? Whats the certification process? Do they have to write that it's a true copy or just put a stamp on it? Also after i've got it certified do i need to get it legalised by the legalisation department of the foreign office or can I just send it with the solicitors certification alone? Any help would be great thanks.

Zippy, why is the certified copy passport needed? Is it in connection with the spouse visa application? Is that application going to be made shortly after the marriage while you are still there in Japan? If so, why not submit your real passport instead of a copy?

If needed to enable your fiancée to apply at the "register office" then I think she needs to check there in Japan about what is acceptable.

sorry John, I need to send a certified copy over to japan as part of her application for a spouse visa. The actual legal marriage will take place in january when she goes to the city hall to register the marriage, she will then apply for the spouse visa after that. I dont actually need to be there when she registers the marriage so I will be in England and therefore unable to give the original passport so will need to send this 'certified' copy. The plan is then to have a ceremony in april over there just for celebratory purposes by which time hopefully she'll have the visa and will be able to come back with me. Sorry for making it complicated. Any idea what i need to do to certify it here? Thanks.

Zippy, this may just be a terminology problem but I have severe concerns about what you have written.

The problem is that the UK does not recognise a "proxy marriage" or "telephone marriage" .... any sort of marriage where one party is not present ... well certainly not when a party to that "marriage" is physically present in the UK.

So if indeed your fiancée going to the city hall with your certified copy passport does count as a marriage under Japanese law, then the UK will not recognise that marriage, and therefore no spouse visa is possible!

So are you absolutely sure about the process? Is it possible that in January when she goes along to the city hall she is merely giving the equivalent of the UK's Notice of Intention to Marry? Then the actual marriage happens when you are there in person in April?

If that is the case it does of course follow that no spouse visa is possible until after the April marriage.

Can you clarify this please?

Can any Japanese readers of this Board assist with the process of marriage in Japan?

john, wow thanks for the concern, i hadnt thought about it like that before really. i was suprised that it was possible with only 1 party present as well. the following is from the british embassy in tokyo's website

Japanese law requires that all marriages here must take place at a local Ward or City Office. The couple must submit a notice of "Intention to Marry" or "kon-in-todoke" to the Ward/City Office, the Marriage Officer will then issue a "Certificate of Acceptance of Notification of Marriage" or "kon-in-todoke-juri-shomeisho" and the couple will be married. Any additional ceremonies in Japan at churches, temples and so on are at your discretion and are surplus to the requirements of Japanese law.

http://www.uknow.or.jp/be_e/consular/ma ... iage01.htm

the plan was to do that in january and then she will send off the spouse visa application. it will be a legal marriage in japan but how will the embassy people actually know that i wasnt at the city hall with her at the time? also we can show we are having a ceremony in april, but like it says they are surplus to requirements under japanese law. ah now im confused.....

zippy, I think you need to download and read this document. This is just part of the instructions given to the staff dealing with visa applications.

In particular you need to read 3 et seq.

Looking at the wording you quote from the British Embassy in Japan it does say :-

The couple must submit a notice of "Intention to Marry" .....

(my emphasis!)

Surely both of you need to be there?

If I were you I would ring the British Embassy in Japan and discuss this with them. I expect them to confirm that you will need to be there in person at city hall when the "Intention to Marry" is given.

yes i saw that it said the couple need to submit the intention to marry but the couple both need to sign the intention to marry which we have done but it only needs to be submitted by one particular person apparently. i think the city hall is given a degree of autonomy to decide these things in japan and from what my fiancee says they dont require me to be there for this. I'll definately check with the british embassy in tokyo though. In the meantime though, do you know how i could go about getting this certification? thanks.

Extreme caution needed here!

I think the city hall is given a degree of autonomy to decide these things in Japan

Even if that is so that only deals with the Japanese law side of things. I suggest you want to avoid at all costs you being married in the eyes of Japanese law but not married in the eyes of UK law.

This webpage from the US Embassy in Japan goes into a bit more detail about how to get married in Japan than the British Embassy website. Have you already signed your affidavit?

Certified copy? :-

I need to send a certified copy over to Japan as part of her application for a spouse visa.

OK, to satisfy the British Embassy in Japan a copy certified by any solicitor will suffice. And for visa purposes, the copy should not only include the name/pic page but only any pages including any relevant entry/exit stamps .... certainly including Japanese ones.

Presumably you are preparing some sort of "evidence Folder" and the certified copy of your passport is going to be just part of that.

John. Thank you for your concern. I have asked my finacee to check with the british embassy in Tokyo and hopefully they will be able to tell me whether its ok or not. The passport certification is going to be part of the folder im sending with all my evidence in yes. Thanks for all the info you've sent me so far, if there is no ceremony though just handing a form in to the right office i dont see where it says in english law that this is not valid....

if there is no ceremony though just handing a form in to the right office

But merely handing in a form and getting handed a marriage certificate might be classed as a ceremony.

Suspect that the British Embassy in Japan will have met this before and will be able to advice upon the UK's Government's opinion about this situation. There is sufficient doubt in my mind having read the IND document I linked to earlier to raise significant concerns about this.

How to register a marriage? That varies considerably around the world. My wife and I married in Thailand. The process consists of merely going to the Amphur (Register Office), filling in a form, providing some documents, paying a small amount of money .. about £3.50 .... and getting handed the marriage certificate. In terms of the process that is a bit like registering a birth or a death in a UK Register Office ... far simpler than a UK marriage. Yes we also had a religious ceremony but, like in Japan, that has no legal significance.

Thanks John, I'll let you know what the embassy have to say about it. It would be a very perverse situation though to have a marriage which is done legally and binding according to one countries laws but yet which is not recognised by another country. It's not a situation that I want to end up in though so thanks for your help.

It would be a very perverse situation though to have a marriage which is done legally and binding according to one countries laws but yet which is not recognised by another country.

But that is life! For example, it is possible for a couple to attend at the Thai Embassy in London and register a marriage. That marriage is fully recognised as valid in Thailand. But it is not recognised as valid by the UK, because UK marriage laws would not have been complied with. It is open for the Thai Embassy to registered as an authorised place with the local council, but they have not, and therefore the UK will not recognise the marriage as valid.

For marriages conducted outside the UK, well the UK has the Foreign Marriages Act 1892 ... yes 1892. If you can get hold of a copy it does make interesting reading.

john, british embassy in osaka (my fiancee is in western japan) have said that it's ok for her to do it by herself so I can't see any reason why we shouldn't now. They said as far as they were concerned (or as far as i can gather from what my gf has said), if it's legal under japanese law then that is all they are concerned about from the perspective of english law. here's hoping it's all ok...

Zippy, all I will say is that I wish you and your wife (as she will be) a long and happy life together.

I say that because ... and do appreciate that I am obviously not wishing this .... if the marriage breaks down in x years time and there is a possibility of a divorce ... it could get awfully messy! Your solicitor would at least want to investigate whether, in the eyes of UK law, you are married at all!

But as said above, have a long and happy life together .... and don't read those IND instructions to its staff!

john, thanks for your kind wishes.
i guess if her city hall says its ok and the british embassy says it's ok and then turns around after this and says otherwise then at least we will have some come back, perhaps not so useful after the event granted but i dont see who else we should be expected to check with. the foreign office in england have just been ignoring my emails and trying to get hold of these bureaucrats on the phone is a joke.

it is a sad world in which we live where what should be a completely enjoyable time of planning the wedding is turned into such a stressful nightmare because of such vague bureaucratic rules. The irony is that if she had been a member of relatively poor country such as greece or poland getting her a visa to work would have been so much easier. Sadly even though she's a citizen of the world's second richest country we still have these problems.

having said that i guess if it comes to any divorce it'd prolly be me that benefits from such a claim as you described.... only joking, this one's forever i'm sure

Zippy, it is even worse than that, in the sense that as regards :-

The irony is that if she had been a member of relatively poor country such as Greece or Poland getting her a visa to work would have been so much easier.

-: if she had been Greek then as an EU Citizen she could just move here to the UK and live and work with no problem ... no visa required. Same if she had been Polish, except for the first year, if she is working, she would need to register under the Workers Registration Scheme.

having said that i guess if it comes to any divorce it'd prolly be me that benefits from such a claim as you described

Exactly, but as you say, this is totally theoretical!

Have a long and happy life together.