ESC

Click the "allow" button if you want to receive important news and updates from immigrationboards.com


Immigrationboards.com: Immigration, work visa and work permit discussion board

Welcome to immigrationboards.com!

Login Register Do not show

ILR PEO success after losing at court of appeal

Only for queries regarding Indefinite Leave to Remain (ILR). Please use the EU Settlement Scheme forum for queries about settled status under Appendix EU

Moderators: Casa, push, JAJ, ca.funke, Amber, zimba, vinny, Obie, EUsmileWEallsmile, batleykhan, meself2, geriatrix, John, ChetanOjha, archigabe

gaya
Newly Registered
Posts: 13
Joined: Mon Jan 21, 2013 3:02 pm

ILR PEO success after losing at court of appeal

Post by gaya » Mon Jan 21, 2013 3:21 pm

Hi all,

I applied for ILR in June 2011 (WP holder), it got rejected in Nov 2011 (drink and driving offence in Dec 2007 - driving ban and fine). I had not mentioned this on the application (my mistake - i did not know this was a criminal offense and i'm not lying here). Came to know about this criminal offense, rehabilitation period etc at a later stage

Dec 2011 - Appeal (First-tier tribunal)
Jan 2012 - Rejected after hearing (on paper)
Feb 2012 - Requested for an appeal (Upper Tribunal)
May 2012 - Oral Hearing and rejected (Home office rep. accepted that it was not a deliberate attempt to deceive and was simply an error)
June 2012 - Applied - Court of Appeal

I have now received a letter informing me of the hearing date (in March 2013).

My query here - is there any chance for me to get through this? I'm going thru a solicitor, he's currently out of country and returning only mid-Feb. I'm a bit anxious.

I was going through this forum yesterday and came across this - changes to the criminality -- that was made in December 2012. Will this have any impact on my case? Please help. Thank you..
Last edited by gaya on Tue Mar 12, 2013 4:50 am, edited 1 time in total.

gaya
Newly Registered
Posts: 13
Joined: Mon Jan 21, 2013 3:02 pm

ILR PEO success after court of appeal refusal

Post by gaya » Tue Mar 12, 2013 4:49 am

Hi all,

We were granted ILR on 11th march - Solihull PEO. This is after losing our court of appeal case on the 1st of march. And after I (as a dependant) received a removal letter from the home office. We live in Surrey and purposely avoided croydon PEO

After making our 1st application on 21st June 2011 and after many many failures, we were approved today. We did not go with any consultant or solicitor - all by ourselves. Infact, over the last 4 weeks, we met 7 consultants including solicitors, shelling out over a thousand pounds just for consultation, just to be politely refused - because they were doubtful we'd get thru. I finally made my mind and went ahead - had a tough time convincing my hubby. I received the removal letter on 7th march and my hubby did not :-(

I was pretty confident we'd make it - had a proper covering letter and more than enough documents. Prepared my husband thoroughly. This might help ppl under similar circumstances.

The dates are as below, on the 1st of march, we were refused permission to appeal at the court of appeal.

We went in at 11.15. Ticket given at 11.45. Called in to meet caseworker at 1.15 pm. Not a very polite lady but very professional. She asked for our passports and application. Even before she could ask us, we told her that we are applying as overstayers. One weird look. The visa expiry date was 21 June 2011. She was checking something on the system. We told her we were covered under section 3C until 1st of march and applying now within 28 days of overstaying. She asked us 'what evidence have you got to prove that you had valid remain until 1st of march'. We had not received any formal notification from court of appeal or homeoffice citing refusal but had taken printouts from the tracker list on court of appeal website. We told her we were covered under 3C as:
1. Our 1st ILR app was made before the expiry of leave
2. Decision was made after expiry
3. Right of appeal given and we made appeal at the right time
4. We had 2 out of time appeals - but this is allowed if tribunals accept
And under section 3C, we have valid leave until our case is finally determined. She said she'll be back in few mins and came back after 20 to 25 mins. Terribly nervous period. She came back, did not say a word, asked for docs one by one - Work permit, employer letter, life in uk, bank statements, Cohab docs - she asked for just council tax, nhs cards, polling card docs. That's it - she asked us to go to payment counter n then wait for biometrics. We asked her if we can take it as accepted. She told us she's satisfied with the application. We were too scared to be excited. We came out at 2.30, other formalities done and approval letters were given at 4.45 pm.

Always be optimistic, never ever give up, do some ground work, better to do things on your own - and of all, never lie to your wife. I did not know of my hubby's conviction till we got our first refusals - this was a love marriage. I could not apply for a good job, was working in a bank as a project manager in India before coming to uk. Wherever I went for interviews, I was asked for the visa, they were not willing to take me on board without a visa confirmation. After a point, we were financially so down that I went for a restaurant job, the first day of work, I had tears in my eyes when I was cleaning the tables. Not because I found it a demeaning job but looking at my condition. I'm so relieved now.. Wish you guys luck.. Thanks to this forum.

Mayan12
Newbie
Posts: 37
Joined: Tue Apr 13, 2010 3:41 pm

Post by Mayan12 » Tue Mar 12, 2013 7:07 am

Congrats Gaya, Although I don't understand much of the technicalities involved, I can tell one thing that is crystal clear - Your husband is very very lucky to have you as his wife

-Mayan

Bildor
Junior Member
Posts: 58
Joined: Wed Dec 22, 2010 3:52 pm

Post by Bildor » Tue Mar 12, 2013 8:01 am

Wow, well done Gaya.
I'm glad ur effort and research paid off.
And I totally agree with u that doing ur groundwork properly pays off
Congrats

shahid2000
Member of Standing
Posts: 293
Joined: Tue Sep 11, 2012 1:20 pm

Post by shahid2000 » Tue Mar 12, 2013 9:15 am

well done gaya, congrats on your ILR.

ryan2020
- thin ice -
Posts: 439
Joined: Mon Jul 16, 2012 1:13 pm
Location: England
Pakistan

Post by ryan2020 » Tue Mar 12, 2013 11:33 am

one thing i dont understand that you were given hearing date in court of appeal ?

have you attendend the hearing ??

on what grounds they approve your application . please share . its not clear in your post.

thanks

jojybaba
Member
Posts: 163
Joined: Wed Dec 23, 2009 2:31 pm

Re: ILR PEO success after court of appeal refusal

Post by jojybaba » Tue Mar 12, 2013 11:48 am

Could you please tell us what was the first refusal reason?

gaya wrote:Hi all,

We were granted ILR on 11th march - Solihull PEO. This is after losing our court of appeal case on the 1st of march. And after I (as a dependant) received a removal letter from the home office. We live in Surrey and purposely avoided croydon PEO

After making our 1st application on 21st June 2011 and after many many failures, we were approved today. We did not go with any consultant or solicitor - all by ourselves. Infact, over the last 4 weeks, we met 7 consultants including solicitors, shelling out over a thousand pounds just for consultation, just to be politely refused - because they were doubtful we'd get thru. I finally made my mind and went ahead - had a tough time convincing my hubby. I received the removal letter on 7th march and my hubby did not :-(

I was pretty confident we'd make it - had a proper covering letter and more than enough documents. Prepared my husband thoroughly. This might help ppl under similar circumstances.

The dates are as below, on the 1st of march, we were refused permission to appeal at the court of appeal.

We went in at 11.15. Ticket given at 11.45. Called in to meet caseworker at 1.15 pm. Not a very polite lady but very professional. She asked for our passports and application. Even before she could ask us, we told her that we are applying as overstayers. One weird look. The visa expiry date was 21 June 2011. She was checking something on the system. We told her we were covered under section 3C until 1st of march and applying now within 28 days of overstaying. She asked us 'what evidence have you got to prove that you had valid remain until 1st of march'. We had not received any formal notification from court of appeal or homeoffice citing refusal but had taken printouts from the tracker list on court of appeal website. We told her we were covered under 3C as:
1. Our 1st ILR app was made before the expiry of leave
2. Decision was made after expiry
3. Right of appeal given and we made appeal at the right time
4. We had 2 out of time appeals - but this is allowed if tribunals accept
And under section 3C, we have valid leave until our case is finally determined. She said she'll be back in few mins and came back after 20 to 25 mins. Terribly nervous period. She came back, did not say a word, asked for docs one by one - Work permit, employer letter, life in uk, bank statements, Cohab docs - she asked for just council tax, nhs cards, polling card docs. That's it - she asked us to go to payment counter n then wait for biometrics. We asked her if we can take it as accepted. She told us she's satisfied with the application. We were too scared to be excited. We came out at 2.30, other formalities done and approval letters were given at 4.45 pm.

Always be optimistic, never ever give up, do some ground work, better to do things on your own - and of all, never lie to your wife. I did not know of my hubby's conviction till we got our first refusals - this was a love marriage. I could not apply for a good job, was working in a bank as a project manager in India before coming to uk. Wherever I went for interviews, I was asked for the visa, they were not willing to take me on board without a visa confirmation. After a point, we were financially so down that I went for a restaurant job, the first day of work, I had tears in my eyes when I was cleaning the tables. Not because I found it a demeaning job but looking at my condition. I'm so relieved now.. Wish you guys luck.. Thanks to this forum.

Kevin24
Diamond Member
Posts: 1728
Joined: Mon Dec 03, 2012 4:17 pm

Re: ILR PEO success after court of appeal refusal

Post by Kevin24 » Tue Mar 12, 2013 12:47 pm

gaya wrote:Hi all,

We were granted ILR on 11th march - Solihull PEO. This is after losing our court of appeal case on the 1st of march. And after I (as a dependant) received a removal letter from the home office. We live in Surrey and purposely avoided croydon PEO

After making our 1st application on 21st June 2011 and after many many failures, we were approved today. We did not go with any consultant or solicitor - all by ourselves. Infact, over the last 4 weeks, we met 7 consultants including solicitors, shelling out over a thousand pounds just for consultation, just to be politely refused - because they were doubtful we'd get thru. I finally made my mind and went ahead - had a tough time convincing my hubby. I received the removal letter on 7th march and my hubby did not :-(

I was pretty confident we'd make it - had a proper covering letter and more than enough documents. Prepared my husband thoroughly. This might help ppl under similar circumstances.

The dates are as below, on the 1st of march, we were refused permission to appeal at the court of appeal.

We went in at 11.15. Ticket given at 11.45. Called in to meet caseworker at 1.15 pm. Not a very polite lady but very professional. She asked for our passports and application. Even before she could ask us, we told her that we are applying as overstayers. One weird look. The visa expiry date was 21 June 2011. She was checking something on the system. We told her we were covered under section 3C until 1st of march and applying now within 28 days of overstaying. She asked us 'what evidence have you got to prove that you had valid remain until 1st of march'. We had not received any formal notification from court of appeal or homeoffice citing refusal but had taken printouts from the tracker list on court of appeal website. We told her we were covered under 3C as:
1. Our 1st ILR app was made before the expiry of leave
2. Decision was made after expiry
3. Right of appeal given and we made appeal at the right time
4. We had 2 out of time appeals - but this is allowed if tribunals accept
And under section 3C, we have valid leave until our case is finally determined. She said she'll be back in few mins and came back after 20 to 25 mins. Terribly nervous period. She came back, did not say a word, asked for docs one by one - Work permit, employer letter, life in uk, bank statements, Cohab docs - she asked for just council tax, nhs cards, polling card docs. That's it - she asked us to go to payment counter n then wait for biometrics. We asked her if we can take it as accepted. She told us she's satisfied with the application. We were too scared to be excited. We came out at 2.30, other formalities done and approval letters were given at 4.45 pm.

Always be optimistic, never ever give up, do some ground work, better to do things on your own - and of all, never lie to your wife. I did not know of my hubby's conviction till we got our first refusals - this was a love marriage. I could not apply for a good job, was working in a bank as a project manager in India before coming to uk. Wherever I went for interviews, I was asked for the visa, they were not willing to take me on board without a visa confirmation. After a point, we were financially so down that I went for a restaurant job, the first day of work, I had tears in my eyes when I was cleaning the tables. Not because I found it a demeaning job but looking at my condition. I'm so relieved now.. Wish you guys luck.. Thanks to this forum.
Well done Gaya. Congratulations. All your hard work has paid off in the end.

uksettlement
Senior Member
Posts: 734
Joined: Sun Mar 04, 2012 7:07 pm
Location: London
Contact:
India

Post by uksettlement » Tue Mar 12, 2013 1:18 pm

Congrats Gaya!
Thanks!

Disclaimer: I am no immigration lawyer nor am I OISC qualified. Suggestions given by me are based on personal experience of dealing with UKBA. Don't treat my advice as a substitute for legal opinion.

alanwong
Member
Posts: 248
Joined: Thu Dec 27, 2012 1:41 pm

Post by alanwong » Tue Mar 12, 2013 5:53 pm

Congratulations, Gaya! Well done!

Kevin24
Diamond Member
Posts: 1728
Joined: Mon Dec 03, 2012 4:17 pm

Post by Kevin24 » Tue Mar 12, 2013 5:54 pm

Hi! Gaya, I just read your Experience in full You are a great woman,single handedly to face all the tough situations and gone through difficult times. I hope it was worth it,the moment you got your ILR. Good luck in your future.

ryan2020
- thin ice -
Posts: 439
Joined: Mon Jul 16, 2012 1:13 pm
Location: England
Pakistan

Post by ryan2020 » Tue Mar 12, 2013 6:56 pm

hi gaya...

i'm waiting for your reply.

gaya
Newly Registered
Posts: 13
Joined: Mon Jan 21, 2013 3:02 pm

Post by gaya » Tue Mar 12, 2013 7:35 pm

Hi Ryan,

Sorry, I just came home from work, the dates are as below

09-Nov-2011 - ILR application refused - drink n drive offense – given Right of Appeal
06-Jan-2012 - First-Tier Tribunal appeal hearing on papers
18-Jan-2012 - First-Tier Tribunal Appeal Refused
17-Feb-2012 - FTT accepts Out of Time appeal permission to Upper Tribunal
08-May-2012 - Upper Tribunal hearing
16-May-2012 - Upper Tribunal Appeal Refused
29-Jun-2012 - UT accepts Out of time application for permission to appeal at the Court of Appeal
18-Sep-2012 - UT refuses permission to appeal at the Court of Appeal
01-Oct-2012 - Application for permission to appeal at the Court of Appeal made
28-Dec-2012 - Application for permission to appeal refused on papers
03-Jan-2013 - Case renewed to Oral Hearing
01-Mar-2013 - Application for permission to appeal at the court of appeal refused - Final determination (we attended this hearing)

This was the sequence.

Our application was approved based on section 3C. The Work Permit leave extended from 22 June 2011 to 1st March 2013.

Section 3C comes into force when:
1. an application is made before expiry of leave
2. decision is made after expiry of leave
3. Right of appeal given and appeal made at the right time.

By section 3C, your leave extends until your in-country appeal is pending and Out of time appeal is accepted if tribunal permits.

Now, our leave expired on 1st of March when court of appeal refused permission to make a further appeal. From 2nd of March we were overstaying. According to recent change (refer to guidance ILR calculating continuous period - page 12), 28 day of overstaying is calculated from the end of leave extended by section 3C/3D and this 28 day overstaying will be disregarded by the Home Office.

Ryan, let me know in case of further queries. Send me a pm and we can talk over the phone if required.

ban.s
Moderator
Posts: 1981
Joined: Sat Jan 14, 2012 9:21 pm
Location: The Big Smoke

Post by ban.s » Tue Mar 12, 2013 8:15 pm

Congratulations on your success especially defending 3C.

As the drink driving offence occurred in Dec 2007, so as per old rules of criminality threshold, it would have been spent by Dec 2012.

As per new rules, non custodial sentences will be disregarded if they occured 24 months prior to the application.

So without knowing other specifics of your case, in my opinion, a fresh application on/after 13th Dec 2012 or 5 years after Dec 2007 conviction date (which ever was earlier) would have been successful.

db83
Member
Posts: 184
Joined: Thu May 05, 2011 9:18 am
Location: Mars

Post by db83 » Tue Mar 12, 2013 9:33 pm

Light at the end of the tunnel !!
Good luck for your future...
I'm just trying to help !

ryan2020
- thin ice -
Posts: 439
Joined: Mon Jul 16, 2012 1:13 pm
Location: England
Pakistan

Post by ryan2020 » Tue Mar 12, 2013 10:51 pm

ban.s wrote:Congratulations on your success especially defending 3C.

As the drink driving offence occurred in Dec 2007, so as per old rules of criminality threshold, it would have been spent by Dec 2012.

As per new rules, non custodial sentences will be disregarded if they occured 24 months prior to the application.

So without knowing other specifics of your case, in my opinion, a fresh application on/after 13th Dec 2012 or 5 years after Dec 2007 conviction date (which ever was earlier) would have been successful.
i really appreciate your reply gaya.... as ban.s said... offence was spent by 2012. so this was the ground for your success. is that true ?

if yes then you were eligible after december 2012. ami right ? if yes then why you didn't apply in january 2013. why march 2013 ?

please clarify. i'm asking this because may be any bro/sis/friend had same problem can be of any help.

we all memebers are happy for you. have a great life ahead.

gaya
Newly Registered
Posts: 13
Joined: Mon Jan 21, 2013 3:02 pm

Post by gaya » Tue Mar 12, 2013 11:03 pm

I'd say so, yes the offence was spent in December 2012.

But then again, by section 3C, one cannot make an application while an appeal is pending. And, because my appeal was determined and refusef on 1st March, we became overstayers from the very next day and so applied within 28 days of overstaying.

Thanks :-)

FMB22
Newbie
Posts: 48
Joined: Sat Feb 16, 2013 1:20 pm

Post by FMB22 » Tue Mar 12, 2013 11:31 pm

Many congratulations gaya.
i sent pm pl reply.

ban.s
Moderator
Posts: 1981
Joined: Sat Jan 14, 2012 9:21 pm
Location: The Big Smoke

Post by ban.s » Tue Mar 12, 2013 11:36 pm

but you also could have applied after 28th Dec 12 (after the application for permission to appeal refused on papers), couldn't you?

gaya
Newly Registered
Posts: 13
Joined: Mon Jan 21, 2013 3:02 pm

Post by gaya » Wed Mar 13, 2013 7:14 am

I guess I could have, but then, I wanted to exhaust my appeal rights and this was renewed to oral hearing very quickly before I could even react. Of all, I was informed by my solicitor only on the 30th december that it was refused.

I needed a bit of guts and like I told you, nobody really gave me a positive idea and every single person I met, even during that stage was very doubtful. My own barrister, I should not say so, never ever spoke about 3C.

As you said, theoretically speaking, I guess I could have made an application.

FMB22
Newbie
Posts: 48
Joined: Sat Feb 16, 2013 1:20 pm

Post by FMB22 » Wed Mar 13, 2013 10:02 am

gaya i have query regarding 3c leave caz you got benifit thats y you can explain better.

I was on work permit and I made fresh application in 2010 for further leave to remain when i was on 3c leave caz my appeal was dissmissed. After dissmisle i reapplied and extension was granted.
process time wss 33 days. i want to know, is this period (33days) will be dissregarded for ILR which i am going to apply in nov 2013?
Regards

gaya
Newly Registered
Posts: 13
Joined: Mon Jan 21, 2013 3:02 pm

Post by gaya » Wed Mar 13, 2013 7:07 pm

Hiya,

Your processing time 33 days, I think, need not be taken into consideration. The date you made your application is what is taken into account, in which case you have overstayed by just one day. Check this statement below. You should be fine..

Check page number 13 of "Guidance - ILR - calculating continuous period in the UK v7.0"

"If the continuous residence period includes period of overstaying before further leave being granted before 1 October 2012, these periods may be disregarded for ILR provided the period does not exceed 28 days. Any period spent in the consideration of applications for leave to remain where the application was made no more than 28 days after the expiry of leave may be disregarded for ILR.

Thanks..

sh1981
Member of Standing
Posts: 290
Joined: Sun Nov 18, 2012 9:50 pm

Post by sh1981 » Wed Mar 13, 2013 8:47 pm

FMB22 wrote:gaya i have query regarding 3c leave caz you got benifit thats y you can explain better.

I was on work permit and I made fresh application in 2010 for further leave to remain when i was on 3c leave caz my appeal was dissmissed. After dissmisle i reapplied and extension was granted.
process time wss 33 days. i want to know, is this period (33days) will be dissregarded for ILR which i am going to apply in nov 2013?
Regards
were you still in uk during this time
---
ILR Submit: 05/12/2012
Spouse Visa Exp: 09/12/2012
Ack Rec'd: 12/12/2012
Bio Rec'd: 10/01/2013
Bio Done: 10/01/2013
ILR Approval letter: 05/03/2013
Bio RP Rec'd: 06/03/2013
Current Stat: Settled
My Blog: uk-spouse-visa.blogspot.com

FMB22
Newbie
Posts: 48
Joined: Sat Feb 16, 2013 1:20 pm

Post by FMB22 » Wed Mar 13, 2013 10:38 pm

Thanks gaya and sh1981for your reply.
Sh1981 yes I was in UK this time and was working
with same employer.
I am Tier2 migrant and still working with same employer who sponsered in 2008.

FMB22
Newbie
Posts: 48
Joined: Sat Feb 16, 2013 1:20 pm

Post by FMB22 » Wed Mar 13, 2013 10:58 pm

Dear Gaya and sh1981 and other members.

My application for leave to remain was refused caz employer was waiting for licence and he could,t issue cos but after one week of refusal he got licence and issued cos which was forwarded to ukba and tribunal as appeal was loged.
while hearing ukba representative mentioned that ukba has not objection since appeallant has cos but inspite of that judge dissmissed appeal mentioning appeallant had not cos at the time of application.
As ukba representative indicated while hearing that ukba has not objection thats why i reapplied on the day which was last day to apply for upper tribunal but i preffered to reapply rather than to go upper tribinal. My second application was postal thats why ukba took 33 days to process.
These 33 days are over staying period or spent under consideration?
and need to explain when apply for ILR?[/list]

Locked
cron