can my thai wife apply for irish citizenship or residence ?

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can my thai wife apply for irish citizenship or residence ?

Postby dmax » Tue May 08, 2012 11:31 am

my thai wife is living with me in belfast, we have a baby girl of 3 years old who has a uk passport and was born in belfast. i myself have both uk and irish passports, dual citizenship. my wife is here in belfast under EEA rules and has a valid 5 year residence stamp which is due to expire in march 2013.

heres the question. can she now apply for an irish passport ? can she apply for irish resident permit.

if so please tell me as much info as possible . THANKYOU :P
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Re: can my thai wife apply for irish citizenship or residenc

Postby adlexy » Tue May 08, 2012 12:10 pm

dmax wrote:my thai wife is living with me in belfast, we have a baby girl of 3 years old who has a uk passport and was born in belfast. i myself have both uk and irish passports, dual citizenship. my wife is here in belfast under EEA rules and has a valid 5 year residence stamp which is due to expire in march 2013.

heres the question. can she now apply for an irish passport ? can she apply for irish resident permit.

if so please tell me as much info as possible . THANKYOU :P


The simple answer is NO.

Your wife lives in the UK and not in the Republic with you.

Your child can apply for Irish citizenship like you but not your wife.

As a matter of curiosity why is she not opting for the UK passport?

Hope that helps
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Re: can my thai wife apply for irish citizenship or residenc

Postby ca.funke » Tue May 08, 2012 12:41 pm

Hi dmax,

I´m not sure, but I would say the simple answer is "yes".

Reason for me to believe so is the fact that the Republic considers Northern Ireland as part of the Republic for citizenship purposes (diplomatically called "the Island of Ireland") as far as "birth" and "living together with an Irish citizen" is concerned.

But someone who really knows would have to confirm.

dmax wrote:...we have a baby girl of 3 years old who has a uk passport...

Your baby is definitely both Irish and British from birth, and possibly also Thai. See also >>nationality vs. passport<<. I would recommend getting her an Irish passport ASAP to prove her Irish nationality (which she already has!).

dmax wrote:i myself have both uk and irish passports, dual citizenship. my wife is here in belfast under EEA rules and has a valid 5 year residence stamp which is due to expire in march 2013.

heres the question. can she now apply for an irish passport ? can she apply for irish resident permit.


Irish nationality (+passport): maybe, see above.

Irish residence: no - because NorthernIreland is not under the control of the government of the Republic. However she can have another UK-issued residence-stamp, and if yee were to move to the Republic she would also be granted residency most easily.

UK nationality (+passport): should be easy - why not go for it? (you´d have to establish if Thailand allows dual nationality!)

Rgds, Christian
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Postby dmax » Tue May 08, 2012 1:09 pm

adlexy sorry but for someone giving advice in the ireland forum you seem to know very little because n,irland is a part of ireland.

cristian thanks for your advice and i think i will now get my daughter an irish passport ( she allready has uk passport ) though i dont understand what your saying ref to my thai wife, can she apply for irish residence ? i know she can apply for naturalisation but its a t least a 1 year waiting list and Euro 998.00. too expensive and too long a wait.

any easier option available to her ? basically she wants to go back to thailand for 3 years or so to care for her two twin 11 year old boys who have no one to look after them. she is afraid that if she leaves the uk now and her resident stamp runs out on 13 march 2013 then she will be refused entry back into uk because of this. thats why we want to try another route.

her boys are only 11 years old and alone in thailand, wifes father was sole carer but he passed away 5 months ago.
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Postby ca.funke » Tue May 08, 2012 3:03 pm

dmax wrote:though i dont understand what your saying ref to my thai wife, can she apply for irish residence ?

Irish residence is only applicable and issued, when living in the Republic.

She cannot apply for Irish residence, and she never had Irish residence, since she never lived in the Republic.

dmax wrote:i know she can apply for naturalisation but its a t least a 1 year waiting list and Euro 998.00. too expensive and too long a wait.

She can probably apply for UK nationality, based on the fact that she already stayed in the UK for a while, and as the spouse of a UK-citizen (you). This depends under which law she stayed with you (UK or EU law).

You can find out under which law she stayed by looking at her residence-permit. Does it say "spouse of EEA-national" anywhere and you´re under EU-law, otherwise it´s UK law. As far as I know UK-law is the faster track to UK-citizenship, allowing naturalisation after 3 years, otherwise it is 5 years - but I´m not sure about these details.

She might also be able to apply for Irish nationality, based on the fact that she lived "on the Island of Ireland" and together with an Irish citizen(you).

I don´t know any other/cheaper/faster options. It´ll all take a while.


dmax wrote:basically she wants to go back to thailand for 3 years or so to care for her two twin 11 year old boys who have no one to look after them. she is afraid that if she leaves the uk now and her resident stamp runs out on 13 march 2013 then she will be refused entry back into uk because of this.
(...)
her boys are only 11 years old and alone in thailand, wifes father was sole carer but he passed away 5 months ago.

While I understand, these grounds play no role in the naturalisation process.

I suggest you establish which naturalisation will work faster (UK/Irish), and then follow that path.

I just googled quickly, and I guess Thailand does not allow dual citizenship :!: If this is so, after naturalisation, your wife would have to apply for a visa to visit Thailand for longer periods :!:
Last edited by ca.funke on Tue May 08, 2012 3:10 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: can my thai wife apply for irish citizenship or residenc

Postby Malika » Tue May 08, 2012 3:03 pm

dmax wrote:my thai wife is living with me in belfast, we have a baby girl of 3 years old who has a uk passport and was born in belfast. i myself have both uk and irish passports, dual citizenship. my wife is here in belfast under EEA rules and has a valid 5 year residence stamp which is due to expire in march 2013.

heres the question. can she now apply for an irish passport ? can she apply for irish resident permit.

if so please tell me as much info as possible . THANKYOU :P



Have you been married for a minimum of 3 years? You will need to prove this. This is a quote from INIS
'are married to each other, have been married to each other for a period of not less than 3 years, and are living together, as attested to by affidavit submitted by the citizen to the Minister in the prescribed form'


There is this thread which is somehow similar to your situation.(difference is the person was resident in ROI but anyway it doesn't affect naturalisation for your wife because she is resident in the 'island of Ireland')
http://www.immigrationboards.com/viewtopic.php?t=97850

What I have gathered from this forum is that Long Term Residency is issued to people who have had a work permit and been resident in ROI for a number of years, minimum 5. I doubt your wife would qualify for this.

There are websites that you can get more information.

httphttp://inis.gov.ie/en/INIS/Pages/WP11000014:

Hope this helps but the main thing is residency and the length of marriage irregardless of whether the child is Irish born.
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Re: can my thai wife apply for irish citizenship or residenc

Postby walrusgumble » Tue May 08, 2012 3:39 pm

dmax wrote:my thai wife is living with me in belfast, we have a baby girl of 3 years old who has a uk passport and was born in belfast. i myself have both uk and irish passports, dual citizenship. my wife is here in belfast under EEA rules and has a valid 5 year residence stamp which is due to expire in march 2013.

heres the question. can she now apply for an irish passport ? can she apply for irish resident permit.

if so please tell me as much info as possible . THANKYOU :P


Yes to applying for Irish passport on the basis of being married to an Irish national and living in Ireland (island) for 3 years

No to residency, neither of ye reside in the 26 counties.

Even if you apply for passport today, you still have to renew your residency under the EEA rules - which should not be a problem
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Postby walrusgumble » Tue May 08, 2012 3:48 pm

dmax wrote:adlexy sorry but for someone giving advice in the ireland forum you seem to know very little because n,irland is a part of ireland.

cristian thanks for your advice and i think i will now get my daughter an irish passport ( she allready has uk passport ) though i dont understand what your saying ref to my thai wife, can she apply for irish residence ? i know she can apply for naturalisation but its a t least a 1 year waiting list and Euro 998.00. too expensive and too long a wait.

any easier option available to her ? basically she wants to go back to thailand for 3 years or so to care for her two twin 11 year old boys who have no one to look after them. she is afraid that if she leaves the uk now and her resident stamp runs out on 13 march 2013 then she will be refused entry back into uk because of this. thats why we want to try another route.

her boys are only 11 years old and alone in thailand, wifes father was sole carer but he passed away 5 months ago.


What is your problem?

The statement


"Reason for me to believe so is the fact that the Republic considers Northern Ireland as part of the Republic for citizenship purposes (diplomatically called "the Island of Ireland") as far as "birth" and "living together with an Irish citizen" is concerned. "

Is actually an accurate statement. In fact, the poster clearly was careful with his words for fear of offending you, depending on your political persuasion , thus the word "diplomatically". Not bad for a poster who probably is not from this island. The Irish Citizenship Acts 1956-2004 is pretty clear on this

Northern Ireland, politically is not part of the Republic of Ireland. Ask most outsiders around the world, "Ireland" is considered to be the 26 counties, much to the annoyance of Unionists.


With regard to the boys. Could you not bring them to the North ? You say that you live in the North, so I assume that you relied upon your Irish Passport in order to invoke EEA law.

If so, your wife has Family Reunification Rights under EU law the same as you.


However, it is a bit tricky, the McCarthy Case of 2011 suggests that in certain situations (possibly similar to this - it is similar if you have not traveled out of the 6 counties and the UK), the dual nationality matter can be ignored (including the tricky GFA issue), thus, EU law not applicable. UK immigration Law (if living in Northern Ireland) might help. You should look into that option, however.
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Re: can my thai wife apply for irish citizenship or residenc

Postby dmax » Tue May 08, 2012 5:57 pm

walrusgumble wrote:
dmax wrote:my thai wife is living with me in belfast, we have a baby girl of 3 years old who has a uk passport and was born in belfast. i myself have both uk and irish passports, dual citizenship. my wife is here in belfast under EEA rules and has a valid 5 year residence stamp which is due to expire in march 2013.

heres the question. can she now apply for an irish passport ? can she apply for irish resident permit.

if so please tell me as much info as possible . THANKYOU :P


Yes to applying for Irish passport on the basis of being married to an Irish national and living in Ireland (island) for 3 years

No to residency, neither of ye reside in the 26 counties.

Even if you apply for passport today, you still have to renew your residency under the EEA rules - which should not be a problem


THANKS,
so yes to applying for an irish passport, is this my wife your talking about ? its very confusing, i didnt think my wife would be allowed to apply for an irish passport just because she has been married to an irish national for 3 years or more.
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Postby ca.funke » Tue May 08, 2012 6:35 pm

walrusgumble wrote:...a poster who probably is not from this island...

I´m not from, but I´ve been to Ireland for quite some time (if six years count).

I will never forget the day I travelled down Divis Road in Belfast (if I remember correctly, the Irish side of the divide anyhow) in a Belgian car (white numberplate with red digits and blue "Euro"-zone). I was suddenly attacked by a group of 15-20 year old kids (~20 of them) who threw small stones at my car... I was stopped by a red traffic-light, but considering events I just ignored that and accelerated - straight into the group.

As I passed through them they tried to rip the door open, and (luckily) all of them jumped aside.

Quite a shock to me, and I can assure you I won´t forget.

I assume the red-white-blue combination of the numberplate must have made them think that I´m associated with the UK in some way... Had they only known that I lived in the Republic at that time, actually quite liking it...

walrusgumble wrote:...Ask most outsiders around the world, "Ireland" is considered to be the 26 counties, much to the annoyance of Unionists....

Much to the annoyance of Republicans, I also already heard "outsiders" say that "Ireland is a part of the UK, no?" and "They use the British Pound, no?"

So any combination of a lack of knowledge is possible. I only deem that bad if someone claims to know, but then reveals such a lack of knowledge... In all other cases I just find it amusing.

(Just as many people love to mix up Lebanon and Lybia, and/or the towns of Tripoli, which is the capital in Lybia, but also a "normal" town in Lebanon(of which the capital is Belfast - eerrgghh Beirut). Doesn´t make it easier...)

But I´m just talking about lots of towns that start with a "B" and have a little bit of "boom"... ;)
Last edited by ca.funke on Wed May 09, 2012 1:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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...

Postby ca.funke » Tue May 08, 2012 7:13 pm

dmax wrote:its very confusing, i didnt think my wife would be allowed to apply for an irish passport just because she has been married to an irish national for 3 years or more.

Your wife wasn´t "just" married to an Irish national for 3 years.

She was married to an Irish national and living on the (geographic) Island of Ireland!

Regards,
Christian
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Postby dmax » Wed May 09, 2012 5:58 am

thanks cristian,
so my wife can apply for ??????? surely there is no way she can apply for an irish passport, she,s thai, in order to apply for an irish passport you must be an irish citizen ???
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Re: can my thai wife apply for irish citizenship or residenc

Postby dmax » Wed May 09, 2012 6:02 am

walrusgumble wrote:
dmax wrote:my thai wife is living with me in belfast, we have a baby girl of 3 years old who has a uk passport and was born in belfast. i myself have both uk and irish passports, dual citizenship. my wife is here in belfast under EEA rules and has a valid 5 year residence stamp which is due to expire in march 2013.

heres the question. can she now apply for an irish passport ? can she apply for irish resident permit.

if so please tell me as much info as possible . THANKYOU :P


Yes to applying for Irish passport on the basis of being married to an Irish national and living in Ireland (island) for 3 years

No to residency, neither of ye reside in the 26 counties.

Even if you apply for passport today, you still have to renew your residency under the EEA rules - which should not be a problem


please dont be pissed at me lol im confused here, walrus you seem to know a lot about the immagration situation in ireland and im not questioning that for one minute but...my thai wife applying for irish passport based soley on the fact she was married to me and living on the island of ireland for 3 years or more. one answer will clear it up. yes / no

apologies from me , im the first to admit im thick as champ ;-) sorry
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Postby ca.funke » Wed May 09, 2012 8:12 am

dmax wrote:...surely there is no way she can apply for an irish passport, she,s thai, in order to apply for an irish passport you must be an irish citizen...

I hope I never wrote that she could apply for an Irish passport now :?: Because indeed only Irish citizens can do that :!: (just as per the link I gave above >>nationality vs. passport<<)

What I am suggesting though is something that I already wrote above, and thus I´ll just quote myself:
ca.funke wrote:She might also be able to apply for Irish nationality, based on the fact that she lived "on the Island of Ireland" and together with an Irish citizen(you).

You should inquire with the Irish authorities whether this might be possible.

And once she´s an Irish citizen, she´ll be able to get an Irish passport.

Biggest problem (I´ll also just quote myself)
ca.funke wrote:I just googled quickly, and I guess Thailand does not allow dual citizenship :!: If this is so, after naturalisation, your wife would have to apply for a visa to visit Thailand for longer periods :!:


If you find out, please post back!
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Re: can my thai wife apply for irish citizenship or residenc

Postby Malika » Wed May 09, 2012 4:17 pm

dmax wrote:
walrusgumble wrote:
dmax wrote:my thai wife is living with me in belfast, we have a baby girl of 3 years old who has a uk passport and was born in belfast. i myself have both uk and irish passports, dual citizenship. my wife is here in belfast under EEA rules and has a valid 5 year residence stamp which is due to expire in march 2013.

heres the question. can she now apply for an irish passport ? can she apply for irish resident permit.

if so please tell me as much info as possible . THANKYOU :P


Yes to applying for Irish passport on the basis of being married to an Irish national and living in Ireland (island) for 3 years

No to residency, neither of ye reside in the 26 counties.

Even if you apply for passport today, you still have to renew your residency under the EEA rules - which should not be a problem


please dont be pissed at me lol im confused here, walrus you seem to know a lot about the immagration situation in ireland and im not questioning that for one minute but...my thai wife applying for irish passport based soley on the fact she was married to me and living on the island of ireland for 3 years or more. one answer will clear it up. yes / no

apologies from me , im the first to admit im thick as champ ;-) sorry


To simplify what has already been said:-
No your wife cannot apply for Irish passport until she is naturalised as an Irish Citizen. bear in mind that the Department that deals with the process and issues the Naturalisation certificate is different from the one that issues passports.

Hope this clarifies!
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Postby EUsmileWEallsmile » Wed May 09, 2012 8:07 pm

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Postby craftynick » Wed May 23, 2012 3:12 pm

I have been trying to find out more or less the same info too.

I live in Belfast with my husband, I am an Irish passport holder, he is Nigerian but on 5 year UK residency permit issued under EU law. We have been married for 4 years so meet that qualification. We would like now to see about applying for an Irish passport for him (I am also pregnant & as my baby will have Irish passport i would rather he does too rather than British).

My question is, i know you have to be living in the Isle of Ireland for 3 years but when does this get counted from in the North as obviously we dont register with the Guarda. My husband arrived here in March 2010 (we lived in Spain before this) on a EU family permit & has not left the country since. Would the 3 years be counted since then or from December 2010 when his UK residency as spouse of EU National was issued?

Any help greatly appreciated.
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Postby walrusgumble » Fri May 25, 2012 10:52 am

ca.funke wrote:
walrusgumble wrote:...a poster who probably is not from this island...

I´m not from, but I´ve been to Ireland for quite some time (if six years count).

I will never forget the day I travelled down Divis Road in Belfast (if I remember correctly, the Irish side of the divide anyhow) in a Belgian car (white numberplate with red digits and blue "Euro"-zone). I was suddenly attacked by a group of 15-20 year old kids (~20 of them) who threw small stones at my car... I was stopped by a red traffic-light, but considering events I just ignored that and accelerated - straight into the group.


Heaven for bid it might have been more a case of delinquent teenagers getting their kicks. Report this to the police or are you imagining it?


ca.funke wrote:I assume the red-white-blue combination of the numberplate must have made them think that I´m associated with the UK in some way... Had they only known that I lived in the Republic at that time, actually quite liking it...


No guarantee. Our Nordie Breathen can be just as bitter with the customary chip on their shoulders, towards the "Free State"

ca.funke wrote:Much to the annoyance of Republicans


Annoyed because there is no United Ireland you mean? Time will change that.

ca.funke wrote:, I also already heard "outsiders" say that "Ireland is a part of the UK, no?" and "They use the British Pound, no?"


Ireland is no longer part of the United Kingdom. It is an independent , sovereignty (snigger) Nation and State, unless your friends in Brussels continue with the notion of Federalism of the Union. Northern Ireland is not Ireland as the rest of the World knows it.

Anyone suggesting otherwise is taking the piss.
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Re: can my thai wife apply for irish citizenship or residenc

Postby walrusgumble » Fri May 25, 2012 10:55 am

Malika wrote:
To simplify what has already been said:-
No your wife cannot apply for Irish passport until she is naturalised as an Irish Citizen. bear in mind that the Department that deals with the process and issues the Naturalisation certificate is different from the one that issues passports.

Hope this clarifies!


Actually, good spot! I see where my post looked confusing.
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Postby ca.funke » Fri May 25, 2012 12:58 pm

walrusgumble wrote:Ireland is no longer part of the United Kingdom. It is an independent , sovereignty (snigger) Nation and State, unless your friends in Brussels continue with the notion of Federalism of the Union.

My "friends in Brussels" are not my friends. While I like the underlying idea of the union, the last years of ragged management in Brussels turned me into a veritable opposer of the current system.

walrusgumble wrote:Northern Ireland is not Ireland as the rest of the World knows it.

Anyone suggesting otherwise is taking the piss.

Totally different pair of shoes indeed. Whoever does not (want to) see the difference must be blind.
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