ESC

Click the "allow" button if you want to receive important news and updates from immigrationboards.com


Immigrationboards.com: Immigration, work visa and work permit discussion board

Welcome to immigrationboards.com!

Login Register Do not show

cheapes-quickest self suffiency resident card in EU

Forum to discuss all things Blarney | Ireland immigration

Moderators: Casa, push, JAJ, ca.funke, Amber, zimba, vinny, Obie, EUsmileWEallsmile, batleykhan, meself2, geriatrix, John, ChetanOjha, archigabe, Administrator

jul1
Member
Posts: 224
Joined: Sat May 14, 2016 8:32 am
Mood:
Ireland

Re: cheapes-quickest self suffiency resident card in EU

Post by jul1 » Sat Sep 03, 2016 1:52 pm

Our irish EUTR visa is still running, should we cancel it before my wife leaves on a Schengen visa?
If we try to go to UK at Calais i dont want them to see we have a running visa to Ireland, i think that would raise the chance of refusal, if we cancel it would it show up still in their system as cancelled by applicant?

Honestly i think eventually it would be unlawfully declined anyway so why would we leave it run?

jul1
Member
Posts: 224
Joined: Sat May 14, 2016 8:32 am
Mood:
Ireland

Re: cheapes-quickest self suffiency resident card in EU

Post by jul1 » Tue Dec 20, 2016 1:02 am

update to our story:

we canceled the eutr Irish visa after waiting for 6 months, my wife got the Schengen visa very quick, no hassle in 1 week to my county (visa is solely based on freedom of movement, 1 year validity), right away we applied for the resident card in my country based on local rules (so this is not article 10 card), we got it less than 2.5 months (5 years validity), i was able to claim self-sufficiency with 8k eur proven for the last 3 months in the local bank account, as i was told by my embassy where she got the schengen visa that we can apply for the RC even if im still working in Ireland, we did that so, immigration came to check on us randomly 2 weeks later (i wasnt there), they made pictures about our living circumstances (moved back to family) , was a small interview, and later in another interview (not too deep questions) asked us why we want the local card for my wife if im habitually reside in Ireland, we said we want to live in my country and they had no problem with this.

So we got the RC without me actually moving home, im writing this cause in this forum before i was advised here that RC is not possible without actually living in my home country, indeed it is possible, though in general i would not advise anyone to build on that.

As i mentioned before we are going this way cause we cannot prove that we lived together before, so right away going to UK only on a Schengen visa claiming freedom of movement was not really an option for us. (in theory they have to let us trough until UK is still in the EU but if the couple doesnt have hard proof that they were living together for years the have very slim chances)

As i expected the Irish EU treaty rights visas are practically killed off totally, even though there was a high court decision this year October that they should issue those visas in 6 weeks they are still not doing it and they wont.

Our next move is very likely to move to Spain to get the article 10 RC based on self-suffiency, in theory we will get it in 3 months, though at this moment i was thinking again maybe we could try UK cause she has a 5 years validity RC, maybe we could go trough, what is still against this the risk if she is declined, than she will get a declined stamp in her passport and will be recorded in the system as well that she was declined, after that we had to go anyway for the article 10 card, and going to Spain with that stamp im not happy with, so likely move is the article 10 card.

I dont care about quitting my job and moving countries, i just had enough that we are separated for so long.

Hopefully in about 4 months we will be back in Ireland and i will update the forum again.

noajthan
Moderator
Posts: 14911
Joined: Sat Oct 25, 2014 11:31 am
Location: UK

Re: cheapes-quickest self suffiency resident card in EU

Post by noajthan » Tue Dec 20, 2016 9:56 am

Whatever domestic RC you acquired does not seem to be an EU one. Or however it was issued it does not seem to have followed EU procedures.

You could not get an Article 10 card for a.n.other EU state if not resident there. The clue is in the name.

You cannot enter UK on a Schengen visa; UK is not in Schengen zone.

Anyway all credit to your pioneering spirit and persistence.
Good luck.
All that is gold does not glitter; Not all those who wander are lost. E&OE.

jul1
Member
Posts: 224
Joined: Sat May 14, 2016 8:32 am
Mood:
Ireland

Re: cheapes-quickest self suffiency resident card in EU

Post by jul1 » Fri Dec 23, 2016 6:50 pm

Yes the card is a domestic one, not based on EU treaty rights directly, its just a weird situation where my country extended the freedom of movement rights to their own citizens, so the requirements to get this card were the same as for the article 10 card, but legally its just a local one, valid only in the Schengen-zone.

Going to UK on a Schengen visa i meant based on freedom of movement directive if we travel together with my wife, still an option, though likely we wont go for that.

We are ready for Spain, but i want to try to exchange her drivers license for the car, hopefully possible here, cause in Ireland it is not accepted for sure, i checked it, she could only use it for 1 year, and im not sure she can get the Irish license within 1 year (get the PPS number is maybe 4 months + license 7-10 months), but she could easily exchange it to an Irish one from another EU country.

And of course we will open a shared bank account and try to put some bills on her name, so we are not gonna be short if proof of living together will be required.

jul1
Member
Posts: 224
Joined: Sat May 14, 2016 8:32 am
Mood:
Ireland

Re: cheapes-quickest self suffiency resident card in EU

Post by jul1 » Fri Dec 23, 2016 7:07 pm

Ohh..and when INIS EU treaty rights sections says they are overloaded and that is why it takes min. 10 months to issue the article 10 card...i just got my Irish permanent RC as EU citizen (EU2 form), took them 9 days only to accept the application.

User avatar
Casa
Moderator
Posts: 25651
Joined: Wed Jul 23, 2008 2:32 pm

Re: cheapes-quickest self suffiency resident card in EU

Post by Casa » Sat Dec 24, 2016 12:50 pm

Are you still under the misconception that your wife will be able to enter the UK on a Schengen visa :?:
(Casa, not CR001)
Please don't send me PMs asking for immigration advice on posts that are on the open forum. If I haven't responded there, it's because I don't have the answer. I'm a moderator, not a legal professional.

jul1
Member
Posts: 224
Joined: Sat May 14, 2016 8:32 am
Mood:
Ireland

Re: cheapes-quickest self suffiency resident card in EU

Post by jul1 » Sun Dec 25, 2016 12:50 pm

Casa wrote:Are you still under the misconception that your wife will be able to enter the UK on a Schengen visa :?:

I feel a bit confused that you dont get what i meant, she cannot go to UK on a Schengen visa directly , but if we are traveling together under EU freedom of movement rules they should issue a visa right on the port, from Calais or Brussels to UK that is possible (as you can meet UK immigration officers before you enter UK, but coming to Ireland from mainland Europe the same is not possible, there is no Irish IO in France or any other country when you enter the ferry from that country), and i found people who confirmed this (they entered UK on a Schenged visa, got code1a or EEA dependent ink stamp), but many was declined for no good reasons, which will be registered in the system and you get a declined stamp in your passport too, and this is why im not 100% comfortable to risk that.

MRAX vs Kingdom of Belgium

https://eumovement.wordpress.com/2010/0 ... to-travel/


Even when i started the topic i was advised here why not jump on a ferry to UK and than to Ireland, and why do i want to go to Spain just to get article 10 card...

vanjam
Newly Registered
Posts: 15
Joined: Sun Jan 01, 2017 10:07 am

Re: cheapes-quickest self suffiency resident card in EU

Post by vanjam » Sun Jan 01, 2017 8:41 pm

I am not sure why you are complicating. If you are EU citizen working in Ireland and your wife is non-EU citizen, she just needs to apply for Short Stay one entry C visa (she will get in 4 weeks maximum) and she can come to Ireland and then apply for stamp 4.

fsa
Junior Member
Posts: 54
Joined: Thu May 14, 2015 6:55 pm

Re: cheapes-quickest self suffiency resident card in EU

Post by fsa » Mon Jan 02, 2017 12:32 am

vanjam wrote:I am not sure why you are complicating. If you are EU citizen working in Ireland and your wife is non-EU citizen, she just needs to apply for Short Stay one entry C visa (she will get in 4 weeks maximum) and she can come to Ireland and then apply for stamp 4.
4 weeks max isnt realistic. we applied in may 2015 and have yet not had an outcome same as 7000+ people

jul1
Member
Posts: 224
Joined: Sat May 14, 2016 8:32 am
Mood:
Ireland

Re: cheapes-quickest self suffiency resident card in EU

Post by jul1 » Mon Jan 02, 2017 7:13 pm

vanjam wrote:I am not sure why you are complicating. If you are EU citizen working in Ireland and your wife is non-EU citizen, she just needs to apply for Short Stay one entry C visa (she will get in 4 weeks maximum) and she can come to Ireland and then apply for stamp 4.
Ohh my, you are absolutely not following what is going on in Ireland
I would be surprised if you got that visa c in less than 3 years

vanjam
Newly Registered
Posts: 15
Joined: Sun Jan 01, 2017 10:07 am

Re: cheapes-quickest self suffiency resident card in EU

Post by vanjam » Mon Jan 02, 2017 8:42 pm

jul1 wrote:
vanjam wrote:I am not sure why you are complicating. If you are EU citizen working in Ireland and your wife is non-EU citizen, she just needs to apply for Short Stay one entry C visa (she will get in 4 weeks maximum) and she can come to Ireland and then apply for stamp 4.
Ohh my, you are absolutely not following what is going on in Ireland
I would be surprised if you got that visa c in less than 3 years
The first C short stay, one entry visa I got in November 2015. I waited 7 days to get C visa. When I came in Ireland, I applied for stamp 4. I left Ireland a few days before my visa expired and at that time I didn't have stamp 4; I was in process. I went on holiday to my country, and when I wanted to come back to Ireland I applied for C visa, short stay one entry again, and I waited two weeks. The second time was in April 2016.

I really don't know what is going on now. Could you explain me?

jul1
Member
Posts: 224
Joined: Sat May 14, 2016 8:32 am
Mood:
Ireland

Re: cheapes-quickest self suffiency resident card in EU

Post by jul1 » Mon Jan 02, 2017 10:56 pm

vanjam wrote:
jul1 wrote:
vanjam wrote:I am not sure why you are complicating. If you are EU citizen working in Ireland and your wife is non-EU citizen, she just needs to apply for Short Stay one entry C visa (she will get in 4 weeks maximum) and she can come to Ireland and then apply for stamp 4.
Ohh my, you are absolutely not following what is going on in Ireland
I would be surprised if you got that visa c in less than 3 years
The first C short stay, one entry visa I got in November 2015. I waited 7 days to get C visa. When I came in Ireland, I applied for stamp 4. I left Ireland a few days before my visa expired and at that time I didn't have stamp 4; I was in process. I went on holiday to my country, and when I wanted to come back to Ireland I applied for C visa, short stay one entry again, and I waited two weeks. The second time was in April 2016.

I really don't know what is going on now. Could you explain me?
We waited 6 months for the short stay visa and then we cancelled it cause we were not willing to wait more than that. u must be one of the very rare lucky one who got the Irish visa in time. I don't know if u applied solely based on freedom of movement or u applied as normal tourist including payslips and stuff normally required, also maybe u were married long time ago and have good travelling records, i don't know ur details, in our case we got recently married and the visa was based on eu freedom of movements only, maybe they did not like that, also there is about 10.000 eu treaty rights visa application not proceed since June 2015, many people even sued the visa office, the case went to Irish high court saying this visa should have been issued within 6 weeks though those people still did not get their visas yet. For some reasons the Irish visa office liked ur application and u got it quick but most of us just stuck in the system, visa office claims there was loads of fraud, marriage of convenience and risk of terrorism that is why they don't process this visa, one way around this what we are planning to do is get article 10 card in another eu country and that allows us for visa free travelling to aeu countries

vanjam
Newly Registered
Posts: 15
Joined: Sun Jan 01, 2017 10:07 am

Re: cheapes-quickest self suffiency resident card in EU

Post by vanjam » Tue Jan 03, 2017 8:56 am

jul1 wrote: We waited 6 months for the short stay visa and then we cancelled it cause we were not willing to wait more than that. u must be one of the very rare lucky one who got the Irish visa in time. I don't know if u applied solely based on freedom of movement or u applied as normal tourist including payslips and stuff normally required, also maybe u were married long time ago and have good travelling records, i don't know ur details, in our case we got recently married and the visa was based on eu freedom of movements only, maybe they did not like that, also there is about 10.000 eu treaty rights visa application not proceed since June 2015, many people even sued the visa office, the case went to Irish high court saying this visa should have been issued within 6 weeks though those people still did not get their visas yet. For some reasons the Irish visa office liked ur application and u got it quick but most of us just stuck in the system, visa office claims there was loads of fraud, marriage of convenience and risk of terrorism that is why they don't process this visa, one way around this what we are planning to do is get article 10 card in another eu country and that allows us for visa free travelling to aeu countries
I didn't know that. When I applied the first time we were married less than 3 months, and I applied under EU directive, and I didn't have to send them payslips. I applied to Irish Embassy in Slovenia, I don't know whether it makes any difference.

User avatar
CR001
Moderator
Posts: 86831
Joined: Thu Mar 08, 2012 10:55 pm
Location: London
Mood:
South Africa

Re: cheapes-quickest self suffiency resident card in EU

Post by CR001 » Tue Jan 03, 2017 9:45 am

vanjam wrote:I didn't know that. When I applied the first time we were married less than 3 months, and I applied under EU directive, and I didn't have to send them payslips. I applied to Irish Embassy in Slovenia, I don't know whether it makes any difference.
The delay in processing the 1000's of visa (join spouse or visitor) is mainly for applications from the Asian sub continent countries.
Char (CR001 not Casa)
In life you cannot press the Backspace button!!
Please DO NOT send me a PM for immigration advice. I reserve the right to ignore the PM and not respond.

jul1
Member
Posts: 224
Joined: Sat May 14, 2016 8:32 am
Mood:
Ireland

Re: cheapes-quickest self suffiency resident card in EU

Post by jul1 » Tue Jan 03, 2017 10:21 am

CR001 wrote:
vanjam wrote:I didn't know that. When I applied the first time we were married less than 3 months, and I applied under EU directive, and I didn't have to send them payslips. I applied to Irish Embassy in Slovenia, I don't know whether it makes any difference.
The delay in processing the 1000's of visa (join spouse or visitor) is mainly for applications from the Asian sub continent countries.
Yes, u applied from within the EU already, so it means u have a Slovenian resident card, or maybe a resident card from another EU country? If they are that fast maybe we apply as well as my wife is already on my eu Schengen country and she has now the local resident card for 5 years

vanjam
Newly Registered
Posts: 15
Joined: Sun Jan 01, 2017 10:07 am

Re: cheapes-quickest self suffiency resident card in EU

Post by vanjam » Tue Jan 03, 2017 4:42 pm

jul1 wrote:
CR001 wrote:
vanjam wrote:I didn't know that. When I applied the first time we were married less than 3 months, and I applied under EU directive, and I didn't have to send them payslips. I applied to Irish Embassy in Slovenia, I don't know whether it makes any difference.
The delay in processing the 1000's of visa (join spouse or visitor) is mainly for applications from the Asian sub continent countries.
Yes, u applied from within the EU already, so it means u have a Slovenian resident card, or maybe a resident card from another EU country? If they are that fast maybe we apply as well as my wife is already on my eu Schengen country and she has now the local resident card for 5 years
No, I lived in Bosnia at that time and I have Bosnian citizenship. Bosnia is not part of EU. But there is no Irish Embassy in Bosnia, so I had to send my application to Slovenia, but I have never been in Slovenia. I know that there is delay in join family visas, but they are very fast with short stay C visas. The easier way is to get C visa and then from Ireland apply for residence card with EU 1 form than to wait for join family visa.

jul1
Member
Posts: 224
Joined: Sat May 14, 2016 8:32 am
Mood:
Ireland

Re: cheapes-quickest self suffiency resident card in EU

Post by jul1 » Tue Jan 03, 2017 4:46 pm

I called the local Irish embassy here, they said they wont send the application to Dublin but make the decision here, they promised max 6 weeks, lets see, we will apply this week.

jul1
Member
Posts: 224
Joined: Sat May 14, 2016 8:32 am
Mood:
Ireland

Re: cheapes-quickest self suffiency resident card in EU

Post by jul1 » Fri Feb 03, 2017 9:12 pm

jul1 wrote:I called the local Irish embassy here, they said they wont send the application to Dublin but make the decision here, they promised max 6 weeks, lets see, we will apply this week.
And finally, my wife got the visa to Ireland.
She waited 6 months in Manila (EUTR visa) what we eventually canceled, then with a very quick Schengen visa she joined me in Hungary, i quit my job in Ireland to move home to be with her finally, in 3 months she got the local resident card (based on self-sufficiency) so she could apply for the Irish visa from Budapest, they promised that they wont send the application to Dublin and true it is, in 3 weeks they made the decision locally, and now the sticker is in her passport!

So we dont have to go for the article 10 card, that would be pretty expensive route.

The accepted visa number (accompany eu spouse) starting with 28... is not shown in the weekly visa decision published by INIS as it was a local decision, we were informed in email that we can collect it.

All of you who could not join your family yet im wishing you the strength in those times where you dont see the end of the tunnel!

zahmed05
- thin ice -
Posts: 300
Joined: Tue Jun 19, 2012 9:39 am
Pakistan

Re: cheapes-quickest self suffiency resident card in EU

Post by zahmed05 » Fri Feb 03, 2017 10:24 pm

well done!!! you did really well..

Solid23
Newly Registered
Posts: 8
Joined: Mon Feb 06, 2017 2:04 pm

Re: cheapes-quickest self suffiency resident card in EU

Post by Solid23 » Mon Feb 06, 2017 2:12 pm

hi Jul1
You said your wife's waited for 6 months for a visa in Manila, did they tell her the waiting time before and if they process it in Manila? I'm asking because my wife is waiting for a visa in Jakarta. They said they process it there and the waiting time is 2 weeks. Unfortunately she got refused a visa to Ireland before (study visa) so they had to reffer the application to Dublin. Which means weeks or months of waiting...
BTW your wife needed hungarian RC to apply for irish visa from Hungary? Is it really neccessary?

jul1
Member
Posts: 224
Joined: Sat May 14, 2016 8:32 am
Mood:
Ireland

Re: cheapes-quickest self suffiency resident card in EU

Post by jul1 » Sat Feb 11, 2017 9:48 pm

Solid23 wrote:hi Jul1
You said your wife's waited for 6 months for a visa in Manila, did they tell her the waiting time before and if they process it in Manila? I'm asking because my wife is waiting for a visa in Jakarta. They said they process it there and the waiting time is 2 weeks. Unfortunately she got refused a visa to Ireland before (study visa) so they had to reffer the application to Dublin. Which means weeks or months of waiting...
BTW your wife needed hungarian RC to apply for irish visa from Hungary? Is it really neccessary?

They did not say anything about process time in Manila but they said it will be sent to Dublin. If the decision is made locally it is only few weeks. I guess that is up to Ireland whether they let the embassy decide locally, but from "suspicious" countries i dont think they will let them decide locally.
It is really bad news for you, EUTR visa from Asia to Ireland is close to impossible, thousands still waiting for that visa for 1.5 years...

The Hungarian RC is extremely likely that you need it, normally you can apply for a visa from a country if you are a citizen of that country or you are habitually residing there. Though i heard some cases where one was allowed to apply for a visa while they were in that country on! a visa, that must be exceptional.

jul1
Member
Posts: 224
Joined: Sat May 14, 2016 8:32 am
Mood:
Ireland

Re: cheapes-quickest self suffiency resident card in EU

Post by jul1 » Thu Feb 23, 2017 9:39 pm

We are actually back to Ireland with my wife, though we had a pretty unpleasant experience with the immigration officer.
First question is the purpose of travel, i say we want to live here, than he goes ah-ah that is the wrong visa then, ha cannot let us enter, we have to make a u-turn, we dont have rights to be here.
I did not expect something like this, in Italy, Spain, Hungary immigration was kind and helpful, so i needed a minute to make my brain believe what he is saying.
He kept repeating that the Irish embassy gave us the wrong visa, i said even on the INIS website it clearly says that in our case we have to apply for visa c and here apply for RC on EU1 form, after that he was like ohh...
I said im a registered permanent resident under eu rules, he says such thing doenst exist, it is not possible, i showed him my cert, he goes, ohhh....
Than he checks my wifes hungarian resident card, and says, no, we dont have any right to be here cause it doesnt say family member of eu citizen, i say cause its not an article 10 card but a local one, that is why we got the visa.
Than he says we can try to apply on eu1 but we will fail cause we need a visa d, i said thx i will take my chances.
He was not only rude but denying our right to enter the country was really unprofessinal.
Than he goes, ok u have the permanent resident cert, my wife has a hungarian card we have a visa so we look ok and will let us in, after i claimed 2004/38, mentioned article 10 card and eu1 form, he saw that i know what im talking about, but trying to decline us that hard for 30 mins was something i did not expect...

jul1
Member
Posts: 224
Joined: Sat May 14, 2016 8:32 am
Mood:
Ireland

Re: cheapes-quickest self suffiency resident card in EU

Post by jul1 » Sun Feb 26, 2017 3:49 pm

We applied on EU1 form, i have a full time job, and all the paperwork.

Im a permanent resident here, doees that mean that even without working here, or in general using any of the treaty rights we could apply for the eu4fam card? Will that make the process faster?

I got my PR card (as an EU citizen, on EU2 form) accepted in 9 days, so EUTR section is not that busy as they say...

jul1
Member
Posts: 224
Joined: Sat May 14, 2016 8:32 am
Mood:
Ireland

Re: cheapes-quickest self suffiency resident card in EU

Post by jul1 » Thu Mar 23, 2017 12:40 am

pps number, bank account, rental contract, utility bills are all sorted for my wife, in 3 weeks.
The pps number was a bit tricky , we showed the rental contract with her name and my prtb reg, saying we need the pps for her prtb registration , they accepted it.

Adding her to electricity and internet was easy, after a reading of the electric meter we got the new bill in 1 day online, printout is accepted in bank and everywhere else.

Now we just wait for inis approval

jul1
Member
Posts: 224
Joined: Sat May 14, 2016 8:32 am
Mood:
Ireland

Re: cheapes-quickest self suffiency resident card in EU

Post by jul1 » Fri Mar 24, 2017 11:56 pm

In less than 4 weeks we got approval for temporary stamp 4, id like to think it is because im registered permanent resident here, making the process faster, though they still want to see my p60, payslips, so it looks there is no automatic rights for her without me actually exercising one of the eu treaty rights, but that is alright as i have a full time job.

The stamp 4 is good for 9 months from the date INIS got our application by registered post. Unfortunately till she gets the eu4fam card she has to apply for re-entry visa, but that could be done in post sending in the passport.

Interesting that she got the date, 6 months for the decision, but right away 9 months stamp 4, seems that officially they want to look like according to the book. Even their website states at least 10 months for decision, so im expecting the decision this year December or later.

Locked
cron