Divorce??

Just a question out of curiosity...*knock on wood!*

If a marriage between an Irish citizen and a non-Irish citizen breaks down, what are the options for the person who was originally from outside the country? will they be asked to leave? does anyone know what the procedure is in regards to what immigration will ask of the non-EU person?
I have a few friends who have married Irish people here and we were talking about it a few days ago. Any info would be a help!

I don't know for sure, but it would make sense to me that this person won't be able to renew his/her current residence card which in effect means that he/she will have the leave the country upon expiry.
If the person already has a permanent residence card they can't take this away anymore, but you can only apply for permanent residence (naturalisation) after you've resided legally in Ireland for a minimum period of 5 years.

Dimy77 wrote: If the person already has a permanent residence card they can't take this away anymore, but you can only apply for permanent residence (naturalisation) after you've resided legally in Ireland for a minimum period of 5 years.

Permanent residence and naturalisation are two different things.

Right... but that makes no difference in regards to the question of the topic starter. Unless the non-EU ex-husband/wife, has been granted permanent residence or "naturalised" this person won't be able to stay in Ireland when the current permit expires (or remarries another Irish/Eu-citizen I suppose).

Is there anywhere that would have concrete information on this? I'm interested actually in HOW MEAN the system could be. I find it hard to believe that the DOJ would kick someone out of the country - seeing as they could have been here for a long time before the marriage ended.

I'm actually in this situation. I haven't talked to an immigration solicitor about it so I don't know the law either. I'm on a work permit after being here for seven years. My German national wife and I seperated two years ago. I have applied for LTR but still have to keep current work permits until I get that (if I ever do that is).
I remember reading a few years back that if you are married for two years then you can stay in the country but that is all i remember. Haven't heard anything like that recently.
Even in reference to the LTR the Immigrant Council told me a year or so ago that it's only granted to people that have been on consecutive work permits and not eu spouses. Don't know how accurate that it though.

sovtek wrote:I'm actually in this situation. I haven't talked to an immigration solicitor about it so I don't know the law either. I'm on a work permit after being here for seven years. My German national wife and I seperated two years ago. I have applied for LTR but still have to keep current work permits until I get that (if I ever do that is).
I remember reading a few years back that if you are married for two years then you can stay in the country but that is all i remember. Haven't heard anything like that recently.
Even in reference to the LTR the Immigrant Council told me a year or so ago that it's only granted to people that have been on consecutive work permits and not eu spouses. Don't know how accurate that it though.

you have status independent of the fact of your marriage? i.e you are the holder of a work permit and have done so for more than 5 years (60 months)? then you should be ok for ltr. it is better to have your status independent of the fact of marriage in case one is unfortunate to experience marriage break down

well there was an english case that once allowed a person stay after seperation (he got to stay in england on basis of marriage) reason for it was becasue of the length of time in the uk and because he was in a steady job, i dont think they had kids though (which would put him in a strong position so long as he is in contact) however, unforutnately that case was over ruled by court of appeal and house of lords. sorry cant think of case right now. european courts have yet to hear a case that invloved residency on basis of divorce.

however, in your case, you should rely on the fact that you have work permits and continue to do so. the length of reconkable residency should be 5 years residency AT TIME of making application. one should not mention fact of break down of marriage unless asked. but if some one is in a position similar to yours yo should be ok. just keep getting the permits and hold tight.

how long are you waiting for the ltr application to be processed. dept are only now processing applications received in mid 2006.

Considering that a Divorce in Ireland takes 5 years to get, I'm sure you'd have LTR by this stage (or could have at least applied).

walrusgumble wrote:

sovtek wrote:I'm actually in this situation. I haven't talked to an immigration solicitor about it so I don't know the law either. I'm on a work permit after being here for seven years. My German national wife and I seperated two years ago. I have applied for LTR but still have to keep current work permits until I get that (if I ever do that is).
I remember reading a few years back that if you are married for two years then you can stay in the country but that is all i remember. Haven't heard anything like that recently.
Even in reference to the LTR the Immigrant Council told me a year or so ago that it's only granted to people that have been on consecutive work permits and not eu spouses. Don't know how accurate that it though.

you have status independent of the fact of your marriage? i.e you are the holder of a work permit and have done so for more than 5 years (60 months)? then you should be ok for ltr. it is better to have your status independent of the fact of marriage in case one is unfortunate to experience marriage break down


however, in your case, you should rely on the fact that you have work permits and continue to do so. the length of reconkable residency should be 5 years residency AT TIME of making application. one should not mention fact of break down of marriage unless asked. but if some one is in a position similar to yours yo should be ok. just keep getting the permits and hold tight.

how long are you waiting for the ltr application to be processed. dept are only now processing applications received in mid 2006.

I applied in April 2007 for LTR. One year of the past 7 1/2 years I had a EU spouse stamp and one year was out of the country. Other than that had work permits. A couple of complications for myself are that I've been fired recently from my job although have serveral months left on my permit. I also might need to claim the dole if I don't get another job soon...which not having residency will make more difficult as I know some companies don't want to talk to you if you aren't EU national.
I could never state enough. This is so wrong for someone who has been in this country for so long and to still have this kind of insecurity. I'd love to meet McDowell, Lenihan...both Conor and Brian in a bar.

scrudu wrote:Considering that a Divorce in Ireland takes 5 years to get, I'm sure you'd have LTR by this stage (or could have at least applied).

I was married in her hometown of Cape Town SA for that very reason. My marriage does nothing for me now as she does not live in Ireland any more.

It doesn't matter what country you married in, it only matters what country you divorce in. So if you married in S.A. and wish to divorce in Ireland, you will have to wait the 5 years for the divorce to come through. You will be handled under Irish Law, not S.A. law.

The same is true for the opposite case. If you married in Ireland, and divorce in the U.K. for example, you will be treated under U.K. law which I believe grants divorce within months.

scrudu wrote:It doesn't matter what country you married in, it only matters what country you divorce in. So if you married in S.A. and wish to divorce in Ireland, you will have to wait the 5 years for the divorce to come through. You will be handled under Irish Law, not S.A. law.

The same is true for the opposite case. If you married in Ireland, and divorce in the U.K. for example, you will be treated under U.K. law which I believe grants divorce within months.

I don't think this is correct. The divorce is being handled in SA and the terms are under SA law. All the Irish government is concerned about is tax credits.

I'm not sure what you are talking about. My point is that the law under which your Divorce is examined/handled depends on wherever you file your divorce papers. So if you file your divorce in S.A, it will be handled under S.A. Law, even if you were married in Ireland. Similarly, is you marry in S.A. and seek a divorce in Ireland, as per Irish law, you will have to wait the 5 year period for your divorce to come through.

So If a couple who married in Ireland now live in Australia, they would not be expected to return to Ireland to divorce under Irish law. The would go through a much quicker divorce process in Australia, and then have to present papers showing the divorce was absolute to the officials in Ireland (if they wished to live there later).

scrudu wrote:I'm not sure what you are talking about. My point is that the law under which your Divorce is examined/handled depends on wherever you file your divorce papers. So if you file your divorce in S.A, it will be handled under S.A. Law, even if you were married in Ireland. Similarly, is you marry in S.A. and seek a divorce in Ireland, as per Irish law, you will have to wait the 5 year period for your divorce to come through.

So If a couple who married in Ireland now live in Australia, they would not be expected to return to Ireland to divorce under Irish law. The would go through a much quicker divorce process in Australia, and then have to present papers showing the divorce was absolute to the officials in Ireland (if they wished to live there later).

She is in SA and I am signing a paper giving a law firm power of attorney to represent me in a divorce in SA. It is being filed in SA by her attorney.

scrudu wrote:Considering that a Divorce in Ireland takes 5 years to get, I'm sure you'd have LTR by this stage (or could have at least applied).

yes that is true. but, if one is relying on staying here on the basis of marriage, they must prove (if asked) that the marriage is continuing. meaning lets say applicant accidently said they were seperated (they maybe married legally until a formal seperation procedure and then divorce) or if the dept found out that one was not leaving with spouse as a married couple then application can be refused. department policy

same goes for relying on parentage of children. however, even if seperated or divorced from wife/partner, they still might be allowed to stay if they can prove that they are still part of children's life eg have access to see children or have custody and or are guardians. letter from mother would help or just go to family law courts

walrusgumble wrote:

scrudu wrote:Considering that a Divorce in Ireland takes 5 years to get, I'm sure you'd have LTR by this stage (or could have at least applied).

yes that is true. but, if one is relying on staying here on the basis of marriage, they must prove (if asked) that the marriage is continuing. meaning lets say applicant accidently said they were seperated (they maybe married legally until a formal seperation procedure and then divorce) or if the dept found out that one was not leaving with spouse as a married couple then application can be refused. department policy

same goes for relying on parentage of children. however, even if seperated or divorced from wife/partner, they still might be allowed to stay if they can prove that they are still part of children's life eg have access to see children or have custody and or are guardians. letter from mother would help or just go to family law courts

I am not currently living based upon my marriage. I have the third work permit after coming back from one years stay in SA. The first work permit was for an EU spouse that is not living in Ireland but the stamp is the same as a normal work permit so I'm not sure that INIS even knows this exists...even people at entemp do not seem to be aware of it now that is no longer offered. I got that renewed once. Then the last permit I was told to apply as a work permit renewal. So not sure if the last two years will count against me or not.

http://www.inis.gov.ie/en/INIS/Pages/EU ... y%20Rights

I just noticed this section in the description of the Treaty Rights. I think this would apply to myself as well as the OP.

The death of the EU citizen, his/her departure from Ireland, divorce, annulment of marriage or termination of partnership will not affect the right of family members who are not nationals of a Member State to continue residing in Ireland, subject to certain conditions.