Enforcement of European Union rights for Citizens in Ireland

Website from the European commission listing the various options available to someone whose rights as an European National have been violated by Ireland.

http://ec.europa.eu/youreurope/nav/en/c ... ex_en.html

http://ec.europa.eu/ireland/general_inf ... dex_en.htm

http://ec.europa.eu/commission_barroso/ ... _ec_en.pdf

Or you can try to complain to the Vice President in charge of Justice, Freedom and Security, Franco Frattini here.

http://ec.europa.eu/commission_barroso/ ... act_en.htm

http://ec.europa.eu/civil_service/about ... dex_en.htm

I met with a solicitor today and I was informed that it is important to raise the legal challenge within 3 months of the issue of refusal letter issued by the Department of Justice,otherwise it is not possible to appeal through the courts.
I am also writing a list of solicitors who deal with immigration law in Dublin. This list was given to me by the Immigrant Council,so I am not promoting anyone.

Immigration Solicitors in Dublin:

1. Kevin Brophy
Brophy Solicitors,
38 Parliament Street Temple Bar,
Dublin 2
01-6797930

2.Brendan Toale
MacGeehin,Toale and Nagle Solicitors
10 Prospect Road
Harts Corner
Glasnevi
Dublin 9
01 830 7799

3.Conor O'Brian
16 North King Street,
Dublin 7
Phone 01 8734201

4.Derek Stewart
Stewart and Co.
12 Parliament Street,
Dublin2
01 6775011

Archigabe,

Out of curiosity, does the denial letter state that on there?

No, that's what the solicitor I met told me.It's apparently something like the statute of limitations. The denial letter is just a standard letter saying that we are being denied residency because we didnt live in another E.U country. The one we received didnt say anything about asking us to leave the country, just that they might review the decision based on the court case.

The scary thing that I heard was that the Decision the supreme court makes based on the Kumar case might affect everyone who's in the High Court. So, it doesnt matter if every thing about you is different from the Kumar case, the decision will apply to you on the same basis as Kumar who was here illegally.

I'd like to encourage everyone not to lose heart or be disheartened. They might try to kick you out, but you will always have your spouse and you can always make a new life in another Country.The important thing is that you are together.

Contact Migrant Rights Center Ireland (www.mrci.ie) and Immigration Council Ireland (www.immigrantcouncil.ie) as well. They have helpful and concrete suggestions.

archigabe wrote:Website from the European commission listing the various options available to someone whose rights as an European National have been violated by Ireland.

http://ec.europa.eu/ireland/general_inf ... dex_en.htm

http://ec.europa.eu/commission_barroso/ ... _ec_en.pdf

Anyone tried filling a complaint through the SOLVIT system? I'm trying to fill it but having a bit of trouble with some of the info... anyone with experience on that system?

Hi
I am an Immigration Solicitor and a new member. The High Court will not accept Judicial Review in relation to EU refusals unless they are brought within 6 months from the date of the refusal letter.
Take care
Colm Stanley

Thanks for letting us know. I'd advice anyone before contacting a solicitor to get references from the immigrant council or the Migrant rights center. The main issue in our opinion is that the Irish 656 is discriminatory against E.U citizens compared to Irish citizens. It places an undue burden on E.U citizens which is not expected from Irish citizens to live in another E.U country...This is contrary to the spirit and letter of the E.U free movement laws whose aim is that Citizens from other E.U countries should have no disadvantage compared to local citizens. Unless you can get to strike down the Irish S.I 656 as unconstitutional, discriminatory and placing an undue burden on E.U citizen families I don't see much change happening.

Hi from Cork
It is still possible to distinguish other judicial review cases from Kumar.
The legal position in Ireland in relation to precedents is that one High Court judgement is not necessarily bound by a prior decision of the High Court.
Therefore it is possible to be granted Leave in a judicial review despite Kumar having lost his case in the High Court.
The real problem is that the High Court has upheld the legalityof the Irish regs and the Supreme Court has this to consider in the near future.
Colm Stanley

I believe there is a clear case for the misinterpretation by the Irish government of the power of their national legislation (S.I 656/2006) over E.U families

From Directive 2004/38/EC, it is clear that national legislation only applies to extended family members (in-laws,cousins) and not spouses. The fascists at DOJ have no right to use their national legislation to refuse E.U1 applications for spouses.
Here's the relevant part of the Directive 2004/38/EC.

http://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/Lex ... 048:EN:PDF

''(5)The right of all Union citizens to move and reside freely within the territory of the Member States should, if it is to be exercised under objective conditions of freedom and dignity, be also granted to their family members, irrespective of nationality. For the purposes of this Directive, the definition of ‘family member’ should also include the registered partner if the legislation of the host Member State treats registered partnership as equivalent to marriage.

(6)In order to maintain the unity of the family in a broader sense and without prejudice to the prohibition of discrimination on grounds of nationality, the situation of those persons who are not included in the definition of family members under this Directive, and who therefore do not enjoy an automatic right of entry and residence in the host Member State, should be examined by the host Member State on the basis of its own national legis-lation, in order to decide whether entry and residence could be granted to such persons, taking into consideration their relationship with the Union citizen or any other circumstances, such as their financial or physical dependence on the Union citizen.

Their rejection of E.U1 applications and their application of Irish S.I 656 on E.U families is completely illegal and I think we should be able to claim damages.

Damages have been sought in a number of recent judicial review "leave" cases where EU residency has been refused. It would be important in these cases to be able to show actual damages.

Lex wrote:Damages have been sought in a number of recent judicial review "leave" cases where EU residency has been refused. It would be important in these cases to be able to show actual damages.

Well, I think a year of inactivity is damage enough - No income produced means that we had to manage only with my own, which has been really bit tight in all honesty. She's a highly qualified professional just wasting away without being able to practice - you know how hard is to get in the loop after having so much time of inactivity? Most places won't take references that are more than two years old, and we're getting there.

Plus, and more importantly, this whole ordeal and uncertainty has made a number on my wife - she developed chronic general anxiety disorder to the point of having an internal lump on her throat and is under prescribed meds now. (Xanax, namely)

(For more info about general anxiety disorder follow this link)

I can evidence that easily, it was diagnosed by an Irish GP and have all the prescriptions - plus she didn't have any anxiety issues or history before moving to Ireland, which can be proved easily as well as we do happen to carry her medical history from the USA.

You know, your wife as an American citizen has a real power to change things here for E.U 1 spouses. She could send off some letters addressed to Bertie Ahern, the local T.D's, letters to Editor Metro Ireland,Irish times,'Irish Lobby for Immigration Reform' in the U.S that unless they change their policy in Ireland she is going actively lobby her congressman and senators in the U.S to encourage the I.C.E to pursue every illegal irish immigrant/asylum seeker in the U.S and their families to get them jailed or deported.

If they start getting deported, guess who's going to get the blame? Bertie Ahern and his cronies will be blamed for mishandling things here.

Revenge is not the best attitude to have, but we have to use every legal means we have to get our point across when the Government doesnt care or chooses to be unjust.

Irish Lobby for Immigration Reform USA
ILIR Headquarters
875 Avenue of the Americas,
Suite 2100, NY, NY 10001
Tel: 718 598 7530 | Fax: 212-244-3344

nyoffice@irishlobbyusa.org
http://www.irishlobbyusa.org/
http://www.irishvoices.blogspot.com/

http://www.nysun.com/article/28835

Hmmm, not a bad idea... although I'd probably take a different approach.

I'll try to compose a draft and see how it comes out.

She doesn't actually have to go through with it. The Irish American lobby seems to have Bertie Ahern's ear and if she wrote to them that she would do her best to get them arrested in the U.S unless they can convince Ahern to change his government's policy regarding her situation in Ireland.

archigabe wrote:She doesn't actually have to go through with it. The Irish American lobby seems to have Bertie Ahern's ear and if she wrote to them that she would do her best to get them arrested in the U.S unless they can convince Ahern to change his government's policy regarding her situation in Ireland.

Yeah, but it'd be bad if it hits the media and makes us look like complete asshats

Ark wrote:

archigabe wrote:She doesn't actually have to go through with it. The Irish American lobby seems to have Bertie Ahern's ear and if she wrote to them that she would do her best to get them arrested in the U.S unless they can convince Ahern to change his government's policy regarding her situation in Ireland.

Yeah, but it'd be bad if it hits the media and makes us look like complete asshats

Im surprised you are more worried about being unpopular than apply pressure on the Irish government.
Hope it works out for you both, and your wife gets well!

archigabe wrote:Im surprised you are more worried about being unpopular than apply pressure on the Irish government.
Hope it works out for you both, and your wife gets well!

If it comes to gathering public support, last thing I want to seem is someone just trying to get their own situation sorted by screwing others - Plus its not only about public image but a bit about moral standpoint.

There's ways of getting things sorted, or applying pressure, without becoming part of what's wrong to begin with.

She's getting a bit better though, thanks

The "fascists" at the DoJ are just run-of-the mill Irish nationalists, they repeatedly made it clear, like other Irish institutions, that the "lads" expect to have special rights in Europe while exploiting and abusing other Europeans.

This attitude is very common within the Irish political and administrative system, though it is never openly stated in public.

The best course of action for those who seek damages is to encourage the European Commission to take legal action against the RoI in the ECJ, for this and related issues.

... and he's back ... resurrecting old posts, with unhelpful angry rhetoric .... the absence was just too good to last i guess!

asartes: The "fascists" at the DoJ are just run-of-the mill Irish nationalists, they repeatedly made it clear, like other Irish institutions, that the "lads" expect to have special rights in Europe while exploiting and abusing other Europeans.

Do use your power to hold RoI institutions accountable. Ignore agents of influence who are being paid to whitewash the image of the RoI (a well-known technique used by Irish institutions). Most European institutions know about the dissimulation tactics being used, and are sick of them.

The only approach that works with mafiosi is appeal to a higher power. The recent decisions of the ECJ are only a beginning. Much stronger action is needed to address the vast high-level corruption and incompetence of the Irish justice, political and administrative systems.

astartes wrote:Do use your power to hold RoI institutions accountable. Ignore agents of influence who are being paid to whitewash the image of the RoI (a well-known technique used by Irish institutions). Most European institutions know about the dissimulation tactics being used, and are sick of them.

The only approach that works with mafiosi is appeal to a higher power. The recent decisions of the ECJ are only a beginning. Much stronger action is needed to address the vast high-level corruption and incompetence of the Irish justice, political and administrative systems.

and your country is prefect? where you from?

You do realise what you are saying is over generalising and deflamatory, with hints of absolute beloved. every one else is annoyed by the way they are treated but at least they can intelligently discuss their problems.

if people actually belived you, you would be on your way to inciting hatred which my dear boy is a punishable offence. last i saw europe have not being fining ireland.

i recommend that you check out european barometers, its funny casue the european union and transparency international consider ireland to be in the top table for least corrupt countries in the world.

you might need to note, that it was the irish courts who sent the cases to europe. it was the irish courts who have and will continue to have no problem ruling against ireland when its out of line

walrusgumble wrote:

astartes wrote:Do use your power to hold RoI institutions accountable. Ignore agents of influence who are being paid to whitewash the image of the RoI (a well-known technique used by Irish institutions). Most European institutions know about the dissimulation tactics being used, and are sick of them.

The only approach that works with mafiosi is appeal to a higher power. The recent decisions of the ECJ are only a beginning. Much stronger action is needed to address the vast high-level corruption and incompetence of the Irish justice, political and administrative systems.

and your country is prefect? where you from?

You do realise what you are saying is over generalising and deflamatory, with hints of absolute beloved. every one else is annoyed by the way they are treated but at least they can intelligently discuss their problems.

if people actually belived you, you would be on your way to inciting hatred which my dear boy is a punishable offence. last i saw europe have not being fining ireland.

i recommend that you check out european barometers, its funny casue the european union and transparency international consider ireland to be in the top table for least corrupt countries in the world.

you might need to note, that it was the irish courts who sent the cases to europe. it was the irish courts who have and will continue to have no problem ruling against ireland when its out of line

No way, the DOJ has handled this whole affair like what you would find in a third world country, the law is not about rolling a dice or guess work, you either agree with the directive that you signed or dont sign it. period. This whole affair smacks of incompetence and beloved, simple as

walrusgumble wrote:..last i saw europe have not being fining ireland..

Statutory Instrument 656 of 2006 contains many incorrect interpretations of Directive 2004/38/EC. Regulation 3(2) of SI 656 of 2006 has even been ruled unlawful by the ECJ.

Other sections of the Irish transposition of the European Directive have been flagged as "not in line with Community law" by the European Commission.

Ireland's entire interpretation of Directive 2004/38/EC is currently under scrutiny by the European Commission, who are finalising an overall examination of compliance of the Irish legislation with the Directive.

walrusgumble wrote: You do realise what you are saying is over generalising and deflamatory, with hints of absolute beloved. every one else is annoyed by the way they are treated but at least they can intelligently discuss their problems.

if people actually belived you, you would be on your way to inciting hatred which my dear boy is a punishable offence. last i saw europe have not being fining ireland.

i recommend that you check out european barometers, its funny casue the european union and transparency international consider ireland to be in the top table for least corrupt countries in the world.

you might need to note, that it was the irish courts who sent the cases to europe. it was the irish courts who have and will continue to have no problem ruling against ireland when its out of line

Actually walrusgrumble, you sound like someone who makes empty threats in an attempt to shut up criticism. Take it from an Irish American who now lives in the UK. Astartes has a right to free speech, and your attitude is undemocratic. Your attempts to threaten him because of his opinions are beyond ridiculous. Imagine the US trying to censor the rubbish "Team America" because it is "defamatory". Most Irish newspapers say much worse things about the US than what Astartes (rightly or wrongly) has been saying here about Ireland. Your excessive reaction does smack of low self-esteem.

Whatever you think of his opinions, you can't shut him down without addressing his arguments. Childish claims of "defamation" and equating criticism with crime put you in a bad light.

Your rants don't help the image of Ireland, and sadden me as an Irish American. I never imagined that Ireland would do to foreigners precisely what others did to Irish immigrants not that long ago. One always learns new things about human nature.

About corruption... Bertie Ahern is under investigation for multiple corruption cases. Transparency International doesn't measure corruption but the national perception of corruption -- it simply says that people in Ireland don't have much problem with their government being corrupt, i.e. they are used to it. It's like the famous fact that Nigerians have the highest happiness self-estimation despite the situation in their country. I know few Irishmen who don't complain continuously that their leaders receive brown envelopes.