EU non national married to NZ/UK national denied visa in Ire

I married my husband on the 18/10/06,he is a NZ national but he is UK citizen too.
I am US national born in Israel so have dual nationalship. Shortly after our marriage in New Zealand we decided to move to Ireland, I have friends there and I came to Ireland in November 06. At that time I had secured work in Ireland as I am a UK holder of the BHSAI riding instructor cert and qualified RDA instructor too. My husband arrived in Ireland about 2 weeks after me and neither of us had any problems in getting a PPS number. In May 07 I had to leave Ireland due to family circumstances in Israel, my husband remained in Ireland and was working.

I came back to Ireland on the 17th Nov 2007 when my family circumstances in Israel allowed and on the 20th Nov 2007 in Co.Louth my passport at the gardai office was stamped 20/11/07 till 17/05/08
to stay in ireland on conditions that the holder does not enter employment, does not engage in any business or pro. and does not remain later then 17/05/08
So I got an extended 6 month visa without permission to work and in 2008 we decided it seemed to be to much hassle to get a work permit as they insisted I would have had to been resident in EU country for a specific number of years before entering Ireland in order to get residency or work permit.
So I had to leave Ireland in May and returned on June 27th 08 on another 3 mths tourist visa and I left 3 mths later in Sept 08, leaving my husband in Ireland. I dont know how to go about coming back to Ireland seen as I cant seem to get a permanent resident visa and work permit.

This is unbearable for my marriage, my husband has since got work overseas and although based in Ireland - we seem to be stuck in limbo as I can only seem to enter Ireland on 3 mth visa or 6 mth visa but then I have to prove I have lived in EU country for certain amount of time which I haven't. This is tearing our marriage apart - he has to travel to Islamic countries and he has frequent passport stamps from Israel which makes it difficult for him to enter these states and I cant stay in Ireland.

We would like to buy a house in Ireland but if I cant live there permanently - what is the point. We both want to live in Ireland but at the moment that seems impossible.

Could anybody help and advice on how to get about this - we have read about EU judgement but no embassies seem too aware of this.
Thank you

Thankfully, Ireland's interpretation of EU rules has changed for the better. As a US citizen you don't need a visa to enter Ireland, so all you have to do is enter the country, file a EU1 application (http://www.inis.gov.ie/en/INIS/FormEU1. ... ormEU1.pdf) with all supportive documents required, and once you get your documents and the acknowledgement letter back go to GNIB on Burgh Quay in Dublin or your local Garda station elsewhere to get a Stamp 4 valid for 6 months. After your EU1 application is approved, which in my wife's case took 5 months, you get a GNIB card and a new Stamp 4 valid for 5 years or until your passport expires, whichever is less.

In case you're not aware linus65, the Stamp 4 will allow you rights to reside and work for any employer. You should also get a Re-entry stamp (free) which will allow you to exit and re-enter the country. Best of luck!

As I understand, you are the spouse of an EU citizen (UK) who is working in Ireland. As such, you can live and work in Ireland. You do not need to leave if you are already there, and you can go there as soon as you want without a visa. When entering Ireland it is best that you carry a photocopy of your marriage certificate and your EU spouse’s passport, and if travelling alone have your EU spouse meet you at the airport.

Once in Ireland, apply using the form EU1 for what is known as a stamp 4EUFam (otherwise known as a Residence Card). Once you have submitted your application, you can also get permission to start working (if you want) while the Residence Card application is being slowly considered.

Hi linus65,

To echo what cantaro and scrudu have said:

Your husband, a UK national, has the right to live in Ireland, for a period longer than 3 months, if he is working, self-employed, studying or financially self-sufficient. As his spouse, your rights in Ireland are equal to your husband's.

People with a right to reside in Ireland, such as yourself, cannot overstay. You are not restricted to three months residence, after which you must leave the country.

You mention that you left Ireland in September 2008. For seven months, therefore, you have lived separately from your husband, in another country? What a sorry state.

linus65 - as a person with a right to reside in Ireland (as the family member of an EEA national, who is exercising Treaty Rights in Ireland), there is nothing to stop you getting on a plane today.

It may help you when travelling if, in addition to your own passport(s), you are in possession of your marriage certificate and a photocopy of your husband's passport. It may also help if your husband meets you at the airport.

Once in Ireland, you can work immediately. Your right to work derives from your relationship with your husband. This right does not have to be applied for - it already exists.

To obtain a "Residence Card of a family member of a Union citizen", known in Ireland as "Stamp 4 EUFam", submit form EU1 to the address below, when you are in Ireland. This Residence Card confirms the rights which you already hold, which is helpful for many purposes.

EU Treaty Rights Section,
Irish Naturalisation and Immigration Service,
Department of Justice, Equality and Law Reform,
13/14 Burgh Quay,
Dublin 2.

Don't forget to let us know how you get on!

Directive/2004/38/EC wrote:Once you have submitted your application, you can also get permission to start working (if you want) while the Residence Card application is being slowly considered.

Permission is not required to exercise a right which already exists. But I know what you mean.

The processing of the EU1 application takes 6 months. During this time - even though your right to reside and to work already exists - you can get a Stamp 4 registration card, valid for the 6 months, from your local GNIB office. This card is good evidence, for employers unfamiliar with the EEA regulations, that you have the right to work.

Hi all,

Sorry for delay in reply.

I want to thank you all for your kind, helpful and prompt replies.
It's been reassuring to receive your useful advice.

I'll be sure to update on any changes within progress

Thanks again!!!

Admittedly, I'm still uncertain regarding my rights as non EU spouse of EU national. It appears that my previous post is deficient and I hope to fill in the gaps as to further questions that hamper my understanding on treaty rights and regulations.

The situation being thus:
My husband (UK national) and I (US national) are married for nearly 3 years. We moved to Ireland late 2006. The officer at the GNIB, extended my stay for 6 months (in which we were to apply for residency - EU1 form) with the prohibition to take on employment. He also emphasized that in order to be approved to reside in Ireland with my spouse we will need to provide evidence of previous residency in EU member state (a requirement we could not supply since we hadn't lived in any EU state previous our arrival in Ireland). Reluctantly, we made the decision to leave Ireland. My husband taking on employment in Dubai while I stayed with family in Israel.

Coming across the European Court of Justice judgment dated 25th July 2008 has re-triggered the spark of hope and longing to reside in Ireland.
And so began my investigation...

In our case, we will have to start all over again seen we are no longer in the State. Also, my husband is working in Dubai I suspect that's not considered as him 'practicing' his 'treaty rights'.

Will he have to give up his job in order to reside in Ireland?

Can anyone please recommend what documents we need to file with the EU1 application from? and is it necessary to send original passports and documentations? or will copies do?

Thank you for reading this far, your reply is most appreciated

Hi Linus,

Ireland was doing a lot of wrong things, prior to the Metock judgement of 25th July 2008. Happily, the situation has now vastly improved, and things are usually, mostly, reasonably, in line with the Directive.

Basically, if your husband resides in Ireland, while exercising a Treaty right (employment, self-employment, studying, self-sufficiency), you have the right to reside with him. While resident, you each have the same rights as an Irish citizen.

However, if your husband does not reside in Ireland, you have no right to reside in Ireland.

Hi benifa,
Thanks again for your prompt reply.

In other words, as long as my husband is working overseas we cannot reside in Ireland?

[While resident, you each have the same rights as an Irish citizen.]

I'm not sure that's quite accurate. Citizens rights are more extensive than resident's rights. [/quote]

linus65 wrote:Hi benifa,
Thanks again for your prompt reply.

In other words, as long as my husband is working overseas we cannot reside in Ireland?

He can work overseas, but he must reside in Ireland in order for you to have the right to reside in Ireland. In this case, he would be considered self-sufficient.

linus65 wrote:

benifa wrote:While resident, you each have the same rights as an Irish citizen.

I'm not sure that's quite accurate. Citizens rights are more extensive than resident's rights.

You're right. I was simplifying things. Your rights are equal to Irish citizens within the scope of the Treaty:

Directive 2004/38/EC, Article 24 wrote:Equal treatment
1. Subject to such specific provisions as are expressly provided for in the Treaty and secondary
law, all Union citizens residing on the basis of this Directive in the territory of the host Member
State shall enjoy equal treatment with the nationals of that Member State within the scope of the
Treaty. The benefit of this right shall be extended to family members who are not nationals of a
Member State and who have the right of residence or permanent residence.

He can work overseas, but he must reside in Ireland in order for you to have the right to reside in Ireland. In this case, he would be considered self-sufficient

in what shape/way/form should 'self sufficient' evidence be provided? bank statement? Employer's details?

I think there is some confusing language being used in some of these postings.

If your husband wishes to live and work in any EU country (except the UK, because your husband is from there), then you can both move there and begin living and working immediately. You have the same free movement rights as your husband as long as you are doing it together.

So if you want to move together to Ireland, you can do that today without the permission of anyone (since you have a US passport). Or to Italy. Or to Denmark. The old situation where some countries were trying to require “prior residency in an EU stateâ€

Directive/2004/38/EC wrote:I think there is some confusing language being used in some of these postings.

In what way are you confused?

It is perfectly simple:

The OP's husband, a UK national, has a right to reside in Ireland if he is employed in Ireland. Alternatively, he has a right to reside in Ireland if he works in Dubai *but* returns to Ireland regularly enough to maintain residency in Ireland, on a self-suffient basis.

The OP has a derived right to reside in Ireland, as the spouse of an EEA national who has the right to reside.

linus65 wrote:In other words, as long as my husband is working overseas we cannot reside in Ireland?

Unless your husband is constantly flying back and forth and entertaining a household in Ireland, which would be rather expensive, he would not be considered resident in Ireland, thus not exercising any treaty rights he could pass on to you. If, on the other hand, he lived in Ireland and worked for a company overseas over the internet, the situation would be entirely different.

linus65 wrote:In our case, we will have to start all over again seen we are no longer in the State. Also, my husband is working in Dubai I suspect that's not considered as him 'practicing' his 'treaty rights'.

What do you mean when you say “start all overâ€

Hello again,

I do not live in Dubai. My husband's job enables him to travel or reside elsewhere. We both love Ireland but a 'prior residency in an EU state' was a set back for us in 2006.

[quote="Directive/2004/38/EC"] What do you mean when you say “start all overâ€

linus65 wrote:He'll be commuting, I'm afraid. Just as he's been doing now.

I had understood that you were both in Dubai. But you say that he is commuting now???

Please be very clear or it is very difficult to suggest things to you...

True. I don't want to live in Dubai and it's a job he did not want to turn down.
In between contracts he joins me in Israel.

Hi Linus65
why don't you go to uk with your husband?
According to the length of your marriage you can apply for ILT in uk(which you would be granted straight away) and then you can easily be able to join your husband in Ireland, i know it sounds like taking a long road but maybe it's the fastest one.

Hi matinuk2,
Thanks for joining this post.

I'm not sure what ILT is ... and if it's in the uk I would assume it's irrelevat to Ireland (?) I would think anyone with the permit to reside in one country does not have an automatic permit to reside in another country.

linus65

I can't help but thinking that it is a bit unclear (to me) what you and your husband want to do and where you want to do it.

I understand he is working in Dubai. Do you both want to have a home base and be resident in Ireland, and he commutes from there to Dubai? How do you want to configure this?

Once you know that, then it is a pretty straight forward thing to arrange (except for living in the UK).

Hello Directive/2004/38/EC,

Directive/2004/38/EC wrote:linus65


I understand he is working in Dubai. Do you both want to have a home base and be resident in Ireland, and he commutes from there to Dubai?

That was going to be the case, however everything is at hold at the moment.