EU1 5-Year Response, Anyone?

But you are an extended family member.

The legislation in the UK does not even makes provision under EU law for you, that carries it's own issue, although I believe you can win that.

However the Irish refusing to accept you were dependent or member of your sponsors household will lead to further difficulties.

So at the end what you will advice me to do for both ireland and uk.?

Tsdhot wrote:So at the end what you will advice me to do for both ireland and uk.?

I will strongly suggest you sort the Irish review first, and then proceed with the UK family permit, which will involve a lot of fight.

Hi Guys,

As informed before, I went to GNIB Dublin to get my mum's card on Friday. The queue is quite long however, they are processing it quite quickly. I got there for 4:30am and was about #60 in the queue. The activities start around 7:15 when the guys came to straighten up the queues and they finally start letting people in around 7:45. The queue then splits up between GNIB card and re-entry visas so I ended up getting token # 34. The numbers start going quite fast as compared to our last encounter around 7 months back and we were called nearly around 9 o clock.

We got to the desk, I presented the officer with the INIS letter, both our passports and my mums existing GNIB card. He checks everything through on the system. He kept her passport and GNIB card & returns the rest back. Goes all fine, please wait for the card so we sat back. So far so good till now.

Around 45 mins later announcements start happening with names to collect card/passport from counter 1. We went when her name was called. There was this Irish Lady Officer probably in her 50s at the counter. She seemed quite pissed off, I think she is one of the senior officers there. I said hello and she starts bombarding me with questions and comments which I didn't expect . Says to me are you gonna go back now, I said I am not decided yet. I am in contract at work and also at the house I am renting. She then goes how long have you been living in the UK, I said around 14 years. She says why didnt you just apply for her in the UK, I said they have virtually closed it for elderly relatives and in the last 4 years there has only been 1 reported successful applicant. She then starts moaning that this is too much for us and we are clamping down on all this now you know and kept on going blah blah. I kept quiet ignoring to get into conversation about it. She then says you know this card is only valid in Ireland, you cant be using this to live anywhere else in europe. I said Yes, I know. She then says if you leave Ireland to go back to UK, you have to re-apply there and I am gonna keep an eye on it and you cant be using this card if you go back etc etc. I said Yes, I know. She then started to note down my mums EUTR reference. She finishes and absolutely gutted puts the card and passport in the tray for us to pick up. I took them. She then suddenly asks if my mom can speak English? I thot if I say yes she may start speaking to her so I said No, she cant. She then rather evilly raised her eyebrows & commented what good can she be for the Irish society. I got fuming but didn't bother responding to her. You could tell she is absolutely gutted at passing us the docs and would have stopped it somehow if it was in her hands. I just said are we good to go? She looks plainly at me. I took my mum out from the counter and left. So this was my 1st bad experience yet living in Ireland since December last year. Anyways, had the GNIB card issued up to her passport expiry date now, although the last encounter wasn't very pleasant.

In UK now to collate all the paperwork for the review.

Such behaviour merits a complaint I will say.

Back in UK now getting all the docs collated for my brother's review. Guys please advise how best to respond/prepare for the review. As I mentioned, no specifics given, don't mention what's missing. Just says:

"You have failed to submit satisfactory evidence of dependence on the EU citizen including prior to residing in the State as requested in our letter of 11/03/2015. You have failed to submit satisfactory evidence that you are a family member of an EU citizen in accordance with Regulation 2(1) of the Regulations."

Our case was both under dependency and under household membership. The letter of 11/03/2015 that they refer to is the acknowledgement letter they sent along with the Temp Stamp letter saying that we have received your application and the complete list of documents that they received as attached. In the end, there was a paragraph as below asking for further info:
"
Evidence of relationship with the EU citizen

For other family members:

- Evidence of dependence on the EU citizen, including dependence prior to residing in the State AND / OR evidence of membership of the EU citizen's household prior to residing in the State OR medical evidence, including a medical report from a physician, hospital etc., that you require the personal care of the EU citizen for health reasons

Other evidence of residence may be considered if deemed satisfactory. If you are not renting or a homeowner then the person you are living with should provide the above documents with a written declaration of your residence from the landlord or homeowner in addition to any other evidence of your residence.

Please submit the requested documents within 15 working days. A decision on your application is due by 09/09/2015 and will be made on the basis of the documentation on file at that time.
"
We couldn't understand why they are asking the same things again whilst the evidence in detail for each category is already provided and also acknowledged by them as received on the same letter. The request for evidence seemed quite generic as if it gets copied to all EFM application replies. Anyways, as per advice from the advisor via whom we sent the application through that we must respond within 15 days. So we responded with a detailed letter re-emphasizing that you have asked for this this info and then we listed the whole lot 1 by 1 that this this this evidence has been provided to you under each heading. If you require any further specific evidence please let us know what and we will try our best to provide.

They then responded to our letter acknowledging thanking for our letter and that we have received your response. A decision on your application is due by 09/09/2015 and will be made on the basis of the documentation on file at that time.

I would really appreciate some guidance on this review process. If you can interpret their 1 para refusal response as to what they are trying to say and where we went wrong. And going forward how best to respond, attach evidence and proceed with the review.

As you may understand, a bit of distress in the house at the moment despite of my mum's successful application. We dont even know what is it that we should have provided and we didnt. As yet, from @Obie's earlier (very helpful) responses, I gathered (our mistakes) that we should have written a detailed and very exhaustive account of my brother's circumstances as to how and why he is dependent and then backed by attached extensive documentary evidence, instead of just the documentary evidence along with a summary of the circumstances. We had to have it opened completely to them the dependency as the department will not disect it out for us.
Re household membership, I still dont know what we missed and they also dont mention what.

Please advise as I must respond within a week. Their letter is dated for the 2nd Oct but didnt reach us till the 8th due to the postal strike. Your help will be highly appreciated.

Obie wrote:Such behaviour merits a complaint I will say.

How best you suggest to do that? Could it cause issues to us later on as she may take it rather personal. What do you think?

Well she was personal to you. If you asked if you mother can speak English, and when you said no, she said, what use can she be to Ireland, that is offensive and inappropriate. She has to be reported, so no one can face similar fate.

Advisers should not simply send documents, they are required to explain how a particular case fits the legal test.

You are right @ Obie.
How best to report the incident? Do I report it to Solvit or INIS or some other department? I dont even know her name man.

Could you also please shed some light on the refusal reasons quoted. Are they not supposed to explain why they are refusing, etc?

Any help guys?

@nahmed can u tell me your number so we can discuss bcoz we are in same position.() send me eamil plz

You can share personal details via private messaging. Not appropriate to do this on open forum.

My wifes response was due today on the 19th of october.

No call to employer or correspondence yet.

When does your stamp 4 expires?

Hi Obie,

Stamp expires a month later 19th november.

But the letter says decision pending date 19 october.

Hey alpha,
They will get back to you before the 19th of Nov. my husbands response came 2 weeks late but was still before the deadline.

They contacted my employer and issued my husbands letter on the same day. Don't worry

hi any one help me. actually my temp stamp 4 expire 23/10/2015 but no call to employer where my wife working. this happen before with anyone

nahmad

what further steps would you take now?

Hi,

I am in process of sending the review out this week.

For people who are waiting for their 5-year responses, it does come before the 7 months stamp 4 expires as "Adedayoh mentioned.

My response timeline was as follows:

10/03/2015, EU1 application reached INIS.
Application response deadline 09/09/2015
Temp given for 7 months expiring 09/10/2015.
29/09/2015, employer contact.
Response letter issued dated 02/10/2015.
Reached us on 08/10/2015 (few extra days delays possible due to AN Post strike). The letter is stamped the 06/10/2015 so may be they took couple of working days from response issued to the actaual posting.

So, we did receive the reply within the time frame, although on the last day.

Good luck guys

@Obie,
A quick question in relation to my brother's EU1 application and our initial travel into Ireland. Can our review application be legally refused merely on the point that he didn't take a family permit before entering Ireland, i.e, hence he entered illegally so they refuse his application?

My understanding was that legal residence requirements had been lifted following the Metock Judgement and as transposed into Irish Legislation by way of SI 310 of 2008. Does it not apply to him being an EFM?

Was that the basis of Refusal?

Your case seems complicating. Ireland and the Netherlands are the 2 countries that dont give EFM much difficulties.

Shocked how yours was refused.

If that it does not seem lawful, although metock was a Qualifying Family case, the rationale may apply to EFM.

Try and get the review done well , or the next stage will be the high court, which is more daunting.

Thanks Obie,

No, they haven't mentioned anything about legal/illegal entry as yet. The reason I asked is that they refused another member's review in a very similar case quoting that he was illegal in UK before entering IE via NI and that he entered IE illegally so we don't accept your dependency. My brother's entry and stay in UK was all legal or in appeals up to the point we entered IE, although without the FP.

Yes, I am trying my best to prepare all the paperwork. Have also hired services of an Immigration consultant (solicitor), although, in Ireland in my experience, as compared to UK, I don't find them of very much help other than handling the posts.

Nevertheless, I have incorporated your very helpful advice of explaining the whole position of dependency as they would not dissect it for us, the detailed reasons for it and that it was material and essential with folders full of genuine evidence.

Regarding household membership, again, followed your very helpful advice. Have started by proving the 2 addresses we stayed since 2010 were my households, with documentary evidence including property ownership documentation, home insurance, voters registration, tenancy agreements in my name, bank Stats & tons of other docs.

And then moved on to detailed explanation with proof that my brother was indeed part of my above households and have included tons of evidence from various different sources for it.

Honestly speaking Obie, I didn't think of our case being that complicated with him being genuinely dependent and also us living together for 5 years with all the paperwork covering the whole period. Its all there in the paperwork & I did think that he is genuine beneficiary of the directive only if I start exercising treaty rights in another state. However, they refused it as you know. The worst thing is that they don't even tell us what's missing or lacking. Aren't they supposed to justify the reasons for refusal? Simply says:

"You have failed to submit satisfactory evidence of dependence on the EU citizen including prior to residing in the State as requested in our letter of 11/03/2015. You have failed to submit satisfactory evidence that you are a family member of an EU citizen in accordance with Regulation 2(1) of the Regulations."

We did reply to that letter they are referring to and they even acknowledged receipt. Don't even know if this is a simple oversight from the case worker or do they actually think that the evidence submitted are not sufficient and hence they refused.

Have tried to cover both the oversight initially and then moved on with full-blown detailed review.

What can you make of the refusal @Obie? Any further help/pointers would be really appreciated.

Thanks in advance!

any one please help me. my temp stamp 4 going to expire tomorrow 23/10/2015 tell me what i do now. not contact to employer yet give me any advise please

james101958 wrote:any one please help me. my temp stamp 4 going to expire tomorrow 23/10/2015 tell me what i do now. not contact to employer yet give me any advise please

just go tp GARDA to extend another 6months

Thanks dublinhope for ur reply.
U have any idea anyone have done this before without immigration lette.please share ur experience.