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Extended Family Members Application (Brother) Refused

Forum to discuss all things Blarney | Ireland immigration

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malik0543
Member
Posts: 128
Joined: Thu Nov 27, 2014 2:48 pm

Extended Family Members Application (Brother) Refused

Post by malik0543 » Thu Nov 27, 2014 3:42 pm

Dear Members

I have applied for my dependent brother as an extended family member of an EU National, i am exercising my EU treaty right in state, but INIS refused my brother application

its state as below.

it has been noted that you have provided limited documents showing the EU citizen transferred funds to you in 2010 and 2011. However, you have failed to submit satisfactory evidence of dependency on the EU citizen including dependency prior to residing in the state.

it has also been noted that you have provide documentation showing you previously reside at the same address as the EU citizen in the UK, however you have failed to satisfy submit evidence that you were a member of the EU citizen's household in compliance with the Regulations.

As such you have failed to submit satisfactory evidence that you are a family member of an EU Citizen in accordance with Regulation 2(1) of the Regulations as requested in our previous letter.



Previous Letter from INIS ( documents required)

For other family members:
• Original birth certificates or other evidence of relationship with the EU citizen
• Evidence of dependence on the EU citizen, including dependence prior to residing in the State AND/OR evidence of
membership of the EU citizen's household prior to residing in the State OR medical evidence, including a medical report from
a physician, hospital etc., that you require the personal care of the EU citizen for health reason




documents which were submitted

[*]Original Birth Certificate of Both ( EU citizen & Dependent)
[*]Bank statement from UK showing bank transfers into dependent account from an EU citizen account 2010 - 2011
[*]Bank statement ( Ireland) showing regular deposit money from EU citizen account to applicant account. [*]
[*]Utility bills in joint name ( EU citizen & Applicant)
[*]Other supporting documents which confirms the same address / same household member of the EU citizen. ( e.g. Voter register Card, Letter from different banks, credits card statements, motor tax letters, life insurance etc 2010, 2011, 2012, 2013.

I would be thankful if you please advice me how to manage this, they have given us 15 days to file review.


Thank you

Malik

webbym
Newly Registered
Posts: 25
Joined: Mon Mar 22, 2010 2:13 pm

Re: Extended Family Members Application (Brother) Refused

Post by webbym » Thu Nov 27, 2014 7:44 pm

Is this the first time you applied ? did your brother not apply for a type-C visa to join/accompany you as dependent ?

Have you submitted any evidence showing your brother NEEDS the money e.g. spending receipts, his bank statements showing the funds you sent were used for his personal expenses etc ?

It may also be difficult to prove dependency if your brother is of working age and capable of working as in that case you
may need some confirmation that your brother is not working or receiving state help/jobseeker's allowance etc. Did your
brother include a letter explaining his circumstances and how/why he is dependent upon you ?

For extended family members it could be tricky to prove dependency especially if they are of working age (18-65)

malik0543
Member
Posts: 128
Joined: Thu Nov 27, 2014 2:48 pm

Re: Extended Family Members Application (Brother) Refused

Post by malik0543 » Fri Nov 28, 2014 2:54 pm

HI webbym

thanks for your reply, no i didn't provide receipts of expense we do on our daily life nor any explanation letter, however i have provide my brother (applicant) bank statement, which clearly shows that i have transfer funds into his account and he is spending all his daily expense from it.

Now please tell me what we need to do ?


Thanks

ch123
Junior Member
Posts: 60
Joined: Wed Nov 12, 2014 7:11 pm

Re: Extended Family Members Application (Brother) Refused

Post by ch123 » Sat Nov 29, 2014 12:13 pm

malik0543 wrote:Dear Members

I have applied for my dependent brother as an extended family member of an EU National, i am exercising my EU treaty right in state, but INIS refused my brother application

its state as below.

it has been noted that you have provided limited documents showing the EU citizen transferred funds to you in 2010 and 2011. However, you have failed to submit satisfactory evidence of dependency on the EU citizen including dependency prior to residing in the state.

it has also been noted that you have provide documentation showing you previously reside at the same address as the EU citizen in the UK, however you have failed to satisfy submit evidence that you were a member of the EU citizen's household in compliance with the Regulations.

As such you have failed to submit satisfactory evidence that you are a family member of an EU Citizen in accordance with Regulation 2(1) of the Regulations as requested in our previous letter.



Previous Letter from INIS ( documents required)

For other family members:
• Original birth certificates or other evidence of relationship with the EU citizen
• Evidence of dependence on the EU citizen, including dependence prior to residing in the State AND/OR evidence of
membership of the EU citizen's household prior to residing in the State OR medical evidence, including a medical report from
a physician, hospital etc., that you require the personal care of the EU citizen for health reason




documents which were submitted

[*]Original Birth Certificate of Both ( EU citizen & Dependent)
[*]Bank statement from UK showing bank transfers into dependent account from an EU citizen account 2010 - 2011
[*]Bank statement ( Ireland) showing regular deposit money from EU citizen account to applicant account. [*]
[*]Utility bills in joint name ( EU citizen & Applicant)
[*]Other supporting documents which confirms the same address / same household member of the EU citizen. ( e.g. Voter register Card, Letter from different banks, credits card statements, motor tax letters, life insurance etc 2010, 2011, 2012, 2013.

I would be thankful if you please advice me how to manage this, they have given us 15 days to file review.


Thank you

Malik

Hi Malik,
Did you apply through a solicitor? and also how old is your brother? It is very important to prove how your siblings/parents are dependent on you. You should include documentation showing that it is not possible for him survive without your help. I think being financially dependent on someone doesn't sum up to a good reason.

Lucapooka
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Location: Brasil

Re: Extended Family Members Application (Brother) Refused

Post by Lucapooka » Sat Nov 29, 2014 12:28 pm

You said he applied and was refused but you gave no other information. It´s clear from the refusal notice that you did not provide evidence of his (your brother) dependence on your before you moved to the UK. That is what is required and that is what you have to provide.

malik0543
Member
Posts: 128
Joined: Thu Nov 27, 2014 2:48 pm

Re: Extended Family Members Application (Brother) Refused

Post by malik0543 » Sun Nov 30, 2014 9:55 am

Hi ch123 & Lucapooka

Thanks for reply

i have applied my self, my brother is 24 , single and he never work and i am paying all his expense and with live me in same house in UK for 3 years and i have send proves as well, like joint bills and bank statements etc ( Member of household of EU citizen)

Also i used to send money back home on my wife name as we live in one family, so she use to manage expense and support my brother there and i have very limited receipts of sending money to bother before moving to UK, after his arrival in UK, he start living with me from the day first till today and i bear all his expense, i have regular transfer in his account.

now my question is that what documents should i send them ?

what documents are required to prove "Member of household of EU citizen" ?

and shall i apply again EU1 or send it for review ?

also can i involve local TD or Solvit ?

Thanks for your help.

jeupsy
Senior Member
Posts: 622
Joined: Wed Nov 23, 2011 11:12 am

Re: Extended Family Members Application (Brother) Refused

Post by jeupsy » Fri Dec 05, 2014 1:39 pm

Is your brother studying or is there a specific reason why he is no working?

I think unless there is something preventing him from working it will be difficult ...

ch123
Junior Member
Posts: 60
Joined: Wed Nov 12, 2014 7:11 pm

Re: Extended Family Members Application (Brother) Refused

Post by ch123 » Fri Jan 02, 2015 3:41 pm

Hi,

Did you appeal and got stamp 4 for your brother? Could you please share the progress of your brother's application?

Regards.

malik0543
Member
Posts: 128
Joined: Thu Nov 27, 2014 2:48 pm

Re: Extended Family Members Application (Brother) Refused

Post by malik0543 » Mon Jan 05, 2015 1:38 pm

Hi

@jeupsy

He is studying English only, and he was student in Uk, so he was unable to work, but i don't understand if the law clearly stated that member of the same household of EU national can join them so whats wrong with it, he is living with him from last 4 years , and i am providing all food, clothing, accommodation etc

@ Ch123

i have filed appeal/review , no outcome yet, i think its gone be an other 6 month.

Please guide me if anyone have experience on sibling application in Ireland under EU law.


Thanks

ch123
Junior Member
Posts: 60
Joined: Wed Nov 12, 2014 7:11 pm

Re: Extended Family Members Application (Brother) Refused

Post by ch123 » Tue Jan 06, 2015 11:10 am

Hi Malik,

Thanks for your reply. I am applying residence cards for my brother and his family based on financial dependency. We will be filing the case soon.
Please keep us posted in respect of your brother's appeal.

Kind Regards,
Ch123

Malik6471
Newly Registered
Posts: 1
Joined: Tue Jan 27, 2015 10:11 pm

Re: Extended Family Members Application (Brother) Refused

Post by Malik6471 » Tue Jan 27, 2015 10:22 pm

Hi. Malik could you plz send me your No. if you dont mind. i am also interested to apply for my brother.need guidance plz.
Kinds regards.

malik0543
Member
Posts: 128
Joined: Thu Nov 27, 2014 2:48 pm

Re: Extended Family Members Application (Brother) Refused

Post by malik0543 » Sun Feb 01, 2015 3:19 am

HI

Just a quick update, i have applied for review in my brother case, and he got temp 6 months stamp, they required documents to prove that he is "Permitted Family Member" and evidence that EU National is exercising treaty rights in state e.g payslips etc

Also i contact with Solvit and got this reply from them.

I am responding to your complaint to SOLVIT about the decision of the Irish Authority to refuse to issue your brother with an EU residence card, on the basis of insufficient evidence of his entitlement.

In line with Article 3 of Directive 2004/38/EC, your brother does not have automatic rights as defined in Article 2 and it is therefore a matter for Ireland to consider, in line with their national legislation, whether the applicant meets their definition of ‘other family member’. We are not able to advise of how Ireland defines this relationship under its national legislation, but it would appear from the decision that has been issued that the problem involves a lack of evidence confirming that your brother was residing with you in the UK as a member of your household, rather than simply residing at the same address, and also before his arrival in the UK. SOLVIT is not able to demand that a residence card is issued where a decision refers to a lack of supporting evidence, or persuade an Authority that a citizen must be considered as eligible for EU rights. In line with the EU Visa Code, it is for the applicant to demonstrate the entitlement, through the supporting evidence. Your brother can make an appeal of the decision, or submit a new application with more evidence. You may also wish to seek advice on the Irish requirements, which are not defined at EU level in order that I can comment, in order that an appeal or new application is successful.

i am very much disappoint with this reply.


I would be grateful if someone could specially guide me what exact i need to send them ?

Thanks

ch123
Junior Member
Posts: 60
Joined: Wed Nov 12, 2014 7:11 pm

Re: Extended Family Members Application (Brother) Refused

Post by ch123 » Mon Feb 02, 2015 5:43 pm

Hey. I am confused. So did your brother receive temp stamp 4? and did they refuse his application after six months?
I thought they did not even issue him a temp stamp.

treefriend
Junior Member
Posts: 99
Joined: Wed Jun 23, 2010 11:28 am

Re: Extended Family Members Application (Brother) Refused

Post by treefriend » Tue Feb 03, 2015 1:13 am

malik0543 wrote:HI

Just a quick update, i have applied for review in my brother case, and he got temp 6 months stamp, they required documents to prove that he is "Permitted Family Member" and evidence that EU National is exercising treaty rights in state e.g payslips etc

Also i contact with Solvit and got this reply from them.

I am responding to your complaint to SOLVIT about the decision of the Irish Authority to refuse to issue your brother with an EU residence card, on the basis of insufficient evidence of his entitlement.

In line with Article 3 of Directive 2004/38/EC, your brother does not have automatic rights as defined in Article 2 and it is therefore a matter for Ireland to consider, in line with their national legislation, whether the applicant meets their definition of ‘other family member’. We are not able to advise of how Ireland defines this relationship under its national legislation, but it would appear from the decision that has been issued that the problem involves a lack of evidence confirming that your brother was residing with you in the UK as a member of your household, rather than simply residing at the same address, and also before his arrival in the UK. SOLVIT is not able to demand that a residence card is issued where a decision refers to a lack of supporting evidence, or persuade an Authority that a citizen must be considered as eligible for EU rights. In line with the EU Visa Code, it is for the applicant to demonstrate the entitlement, through the supporting evidence. Your brother can make an appeal of the decision, or submit a new application with more evidence. You may also wish to seek advice on the Irish requirements, which are not defined at EU level in order that I can comment, in order that an appeal or new application is successful.

i am very much disappoint with this reply.


I would be grateful if someone could specially guide me what exact i need to send them ?

Thanks
Hey Malik
I am in similar situation as yours. My brother moved to UK to live with me. However after staying for 3 months or so, he had to come back as he could not transfer his course credits. I then moved to Ireland in 2013 and living with him since then. Irish EU treaty department refused to accept his entitlement under EU directive. My brother (member of household in UK) review is going to end in March and his temp stamp is going to expire at the same time.

EU department initially did not accept my brother lived with me in UK. However after providing more evidences, they now questioning his purpose of stay with me in UK.

When I spoke to Solvit after my brother initial refusal initial refusal 7 months ago, I got the same reply as yours.

I will provide updates here if it may help someone. Please can you also keep us posted here.

Thanks

malik0543
Member
Posts: 128
Joined: Thu Nov 27, 2014 2:48 pm

Re: Extended Family Members Application (Brother) Refused

Post by malik0543 » Thu Feb 19, 2015 3:58 pm

Hi Treefriend

Thanks for sharing your experience, i have request FOI to department of Justice in regards to case worker guidance for "Other Family Member" cases under EU law, today i got response from them and they refused to provide me any details and they have send me a copy of judgment of the court in case of "C-83/11 SSHD Vc Muhammad Sazzadur Rehman & Others date 5th September 2012 ".

i have also written letter to Irish Office of the European Commission and they are also not clear about the Irish Immigration implementation plan in regards to OFM of EU Citizen, they are saying its is not clear what exact documents Department of Justice required to established a non eu family member dependent or Member of same household of the EU citizen.

Please keep posting if any information you want to share.

thanks

Nahmede
Newly Registered
Posts: 4
Joined: Tue Jun 09, 2015 10:18 pm

Re: Extended Family Members Application (Brother) Refused

Post by Nahmede » Tue Jun 16, 2015 11:52 pm

Hi Malik,

What was the outcome of your borther's Visa?

suvalike
Member of Standing
Posts: 255
Joined: Sun Nov 04, 2012 9:07 pm

Re: Extended Family Members Application (Brother) Refused

Post by suvalike » Mon Jun 22, 2015 1:25 pm

any update guys ?

malik0543
Member
Posts: 128
Joined: Thu Nov 27, 2014 2:48 pm

Re: Extended Family Members Application (Brother) Refused

Post by malik0543 » Mon Jun 22, 2015 7:46 pm

Hi Everyone

i was waiting for a decision as it was due in June but department send me letter that they are so busy and can not make decision now and they are extending the temporary stay for 4 months.

So don't know whats going on !!!

legalaid
Newbie
Posts: 42
Joined: Wed Jun 24, 2015 1:05 am

Re: Extended Family Members Application (Brother) Refused

Post by legalaid » Sat Jul 11, 2015 12:48 am

Hi Malik123

I am planning for the same route. could you please tell me if you have used any Solicitor. Please PM me if you can. Thanks

sanfon
Newly Registered
Posts: 17
Joined: Thu Aug 13, 2015 11:20 am

Re: Extended Family Members Application (Brother) Refused

Post by sanfon » Sun Oct 18, 2015 7:04 pm

malik0543 wrote:Hi Everyone

i was waiting for a decision as it was due in June but department send me letter that they are so busy and can not make decision now and they are extending the temporary stay for 4 months.

So don't know whats going on !!!

Hi malik0543
Any update on your case decision

malik0543
Member
Posts: 128
Joined: Thu Nov 27, 2014 2:48 pm

Re: Extended Family Members Application (Brother) Refused

Post by malik0543 » Sun Oct 18, 2015 10:50 pm

Hi

Application was refused in review as well and case in JR now.

Dont know how long will it TAKE .

i haven't seen any one in Ireland who got 5 year residence card in extended family member cases.

Obie
Moderator
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Location: UK/Ireland
Ireland

Re: Extended Family Members Application (Brother) Refused

Post by Obie » Sun Oct 18, 2015 11:22 pm

Why did they refuse the review, and what stage is the JR at now.

I have been on this forum for many years and i know of lots of permitted family members who were granted.
Smooth seas do not make skilful sailors

legalaid
Newbie
Posts: 42
Joined: Wed Jun 24, 2015 1:05 am

Re: Extended Family Members Application (Brother) Refused

Post by legalaid » Mon Oct 19, 2015 11:35 pm

Hi Malik,

Did they refuse on the basis of any missing documents or was there any other reason? you are right that its not easy to get res cards for extended family member but i have seen couple of people who had it though it was 1 and half year ago. It seems that they are not issuing it easily now a days.

n11000
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Posts: 33
Joined: Fri Oct 30, 2015 4:34 pm

Re: Extended Family Members Application (Brother) Refused

Post by n11000 » Mon Nov 16, 2015 9:40 pm

any update?

imrann89
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Re: Extended Family Members Application (Brother) Refused

Post by imrann89 » Wed Jan 06, 2016 7:25 pm

any update???????????????????? and first time you apply then how long does it take for the result ...I am doing that process mailk

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