fitzgerald vs shatter

Note: please refrain from any defamation or character abuse. if you have anything to say, whether praise or criticism, please share here.

what do you think of fitzgerald compared to shatter? shatter was known for being immigrant himself, so he helped immigrants to gain rights through easy access to citizenship. fitzgerald is from same party, however, shes an original irish by roots, so do you think that shes a bit harder when it comes to naturalising immigrants? please share your opinion and experience..

All I observed recently is there is a major change going on with citizenship approval. If it will be in immigrants favour or or not time will tell. The process is kind of slow and uptight.I heard from a local politician that they are reducing staff members which could mean longer processing time.

I noticed something myself.. the time between submission of the application and acknowledgment time increased from a week (max) into 3 weeks (min).. and I thought its something to do with summer holidays or so.. seems they are not happy processing applications anymore!

what major changes you noticed? apart from reducing staff numbers

I have got my passport last year (In Shatter's time) but still an active member on the forum. If we look on the number of ceremonies held by Fitzgerald, they are not reduced, the same amount of ceremonies and applicants were held in Shatter's time.

A bit of delay could be due to summer hols, as we see in every other department/company. so i would say not to worry and hope for the best.

Shatter of course. everything is messed up since the new Minister of Children took place as Minister of Justice! i dont get how someone who cares for children and babies becomes a person who gives order to imprison people and in some countries to execute them!!!!!

Shatter is not an immigrant! not becoz he is Jewish that it means he is an immigrant! he was born in Dublin.

There is delay in replying to emails and sometimes you don'tget a reply back not until you send another. It doesn't give me a major concern but with the shuffling of new minister Fitzgerald may also want to organise things a little different from shatter.well maybe its good changes or not time will tell.let's just be positive

Bebo, nobody is talking about religion here! (Im sure boards members come from different religions too!). Shatter roots are certainly not irish (even if he born in dublin, his parents are immigrants - see wikipedia) so thats why IMHO he has sympathy and empathy for us!

if anyone mentioned anything about religions it is you not me this is what is written on wikipedia Born in Dublin to a Jewish family, Shatter is the son of Elaine and Reuben Shatter, an English couple who met by chance when they were both on holidays in Ireland in 1948.
from which part did you get that he is an immigrant? except from the part where it says to a Jewish family? i am sorry someone who's parents are english is not an immigrant. if you are talking about England, it is 79 Kms far from Ireland, if you are talking about the United Kingdom, it is actually on the island of Ireland. I do not see any signs of "immigration" in his history unless you are talking about his religion. which yes is a little strange to Ireland as Ireland is Catholic but that doesnt make him an immigrant.

Not because he was a good Minister and a good person that he should be necessarily an immigrant with sympathy towards immigrants. USA, Australia are made from immigrants, are they any easier towards immigration?

@ Bebo,ur definition of an immigrant is someone who isn't from United Kingdom. Also,any1 born in ireland is an Irish,so these people shouldn't be reffered to as children of an immigrant right?

@Bebo.. can you show me where I mentioned his religion? I did not and never mentioned that, the post above proves the YOU who mentioned it as if it was a hard bite to swallow! (gentle reminder, you said: Shatter is not an immigrant! not becoz he is Jewish that it means he is an immigrant! he was born in Dublin. ) - NOW, can you show me where I mentioned his religion? pls, pls, pretty pls

any non irish IS immigrant, whether yesterday or 200 years ago.. and that is not a shameful thing, its actually showing how immigrants can be successful wherever they land!

one important note: if you consider british people to be the land owners (by simply implying that english people are not immigrants in ireland) then you defo do not deserve irish citizenship just for forgetting or unknowing the irish history, roots and politics.. and you better move to england if you still believe its british land, whether originally, or nowadays

Edit: Alan was a US (Alien) immigrant so he tasted the feel of restrictions etc hence he wanted to help us easying the pain.. I like this man, and its unfortunate that my application time was not at his time.. hence was hoping that Fitzgerald would have same or hopefully better outlook toward us!

again same question to you janet where did you get from that shatter is an immigrant? wikipedia says his family were visiting ireland and gave birth to him here. no no to me when u receive your cert of naturalisation in 2 weeks you are called an Irish citizen. it is not my place to call u immigrant or not. so it is definitely not appropriate to call a previous minister of Justice an immigrant. i did say my opinion about them ministers and that shatter is not an immigrant. i am sorry i will not go into arguments again on this forum. clearly you guys come here to fight not to learn or seek advices, you are just making people leave this forum as i can see. no one is going to bother to register and post their experiences if people on here are just gonna be offensive towards each other! you are calling the minister of justice who gave thousands of people the irish citizenship an immigrant and you are asking me in an offensive way 'your definition of immigrant'!

banana07 wrote: any non irish IS immigrant, whether yesterday or 200 years ago.. and that is not a shameful thing, its actually showing how immigrants can be successful wherever they land!

Minister Alan Shatter is non Irish? Janet is not going to be Irish? your Irish passport does not make you Irish!!!??????
any admin here to read this please. thank you.

bebo1901 wrote:again same question to you janet where did you get from that shatter is an immigrant? wikipedia says his family were visiting ireland and gave birth to him here. no no to me when u receive your cert of naturalisation in 2 weeks you are called an Irish citizen. it is not my place to call u immigrant or not. so it is definitely not appropriate to call a previous minister of Justice an immigrant. i did say my opinion about them ministers and that shatter is not an immigrant. i am sorry i will not go into arguments again on this forum. clearly you guys come here to fight not to learn or seek advices, you are just making people leave this forum as i can see. no one is going to bother to register and post their experiences if people on here are just gonna be offensive towards each other! you are calling the minister of justice who gave thousands of people the irish citizenship an immigrant and you are asking me in an offensive way 'your definition of immigrant'!

His parents originally from poland and russia, and got naturalised by british - so they were immigrants (exactly like you) even to UK! then immigrants again in IE..
read about his colorful history: http://www.independent.ie/opinion/analy ... 54096.html

Ps I still like him

bebo1901 wrote:

banana07 wrote: any non irish IS immigrant, whether yesterday or 200 years ago.. and that is not a shameful thing, its actually showing how immigrants can be successful wherever they land!

Minister Alan Shatter is non Irish? Janet is not going to be Irish? your Irish passport does not make you Irish!!!??????
any admin here to read this please. thank you.

again.. another false statement by you.. i said any non irish is immigrant.. did i say Alan is non irish? fancy basic english courses?

dont try to escape the question - just show us where we mentioned his religion, then lets talk about english definitions of immigrants vs originals vs shatter etc

if you cant admit that it was only you who mentioned his religion, and non of us mentioned it, then there is no point discussing anything with you because you base your opinion of false statements - with all due respect

Ps how many ppl came on "holidays" (wink wink) and never returned and became naturalised?

Do not call any person who holds a passport based on his colour/sex/origin, non citizen of that country.
the reason why you had to dig about Shatter in the first place is the reason why you think he is not Irish. to me he is just Irish. you see the full stop there?

@Bebo, I understand where u're coming from,its of a noble stance,but we live in a world where only Aboriginals are regarded as indigen,hence the difference.U'll notice that prior to 2005,any1 born in ireland take up Irish citizenship automatically.This should be a model adopted with reasoning,but it has all changed and the child take his/her parent nationality unless they've been residing in ireland legally for a period of 3 yrs out of last 4. I'm gonna be Irish citizen in 2 weeks time,but I understand that I'm always gonna be seen as immigrant and none indigen,but a naturalised citizen. It is the way of the world my friend.But I understand ur anger towards such stupendous notion.

bebo1901 wrote:Do not call any person who holds a passport based on his colour/sex/origin, non citizen of that country.
the reason why you had to dig about Shatter in the first place is the reason why you think he is not Irish. to me he is just Irish. you see the full stop there?

You are 100% right in all your comments about shatter, shatter is an irish in respective of the view of his parents. If we go back to history of 500yrs back, then we will call most people living in the uk and ireland immigrants. Vickings, romans, saxons, etc. Many that invaded these island never left. They became kings, counts and royals ahd their children children's are still living here today. But you can never know bcus the invaders are white, married to locals and blend in after living many years on the island. By law, if you were born in the island of ireland at the time of shatter you are an irish, also a british on the island of ireland is not an immigrant by the view of law same to irish in the uk.

as for jew, anyone can become a jew just like anyone can become a muslim or christian. The present jews dont look anything like people living in the middle east, abraham is not alien from space, if he was born in middle east, he's decendant should have look like them people from middle east. Becoming a jew does not make you an immigrant, many of the crusaders children from Europe became jew after living many years in jerusalem before they were kicked out of the middle east hundreds of years ago.

shatter is just a good man, it got nothing to do with immigrant or religion.

U don't become Jew,u're born a Jew,perhaps u wanna refer to Judaism. Lol

http://www.beingjewish.com/conversion/b ... ewish.html

google how to become a Jew.

you can become a jew through judahism it is called convertion

May I ask, why religion came in in the first place if jew is not a religion. I am missing something here. Bebo mention jew not relligion but he was fired back by religion which he did not mention in the first place.

I can direct you to a Rabbi that can convert you to a jew through jadahism if you wish.

You are born an israelite not Jew lol.

janet0001 wrote:@Bebo, I understand where u're coming from,its of a noble stance,but we live in a world where only Aboriginals are regarded as indigen,hence the difference.U'll notice that prior to 2005,any1 born in ireland take up Irish citizenship automatically.This should be a model adopted with reasoning,but it has all changed and the child take his/her parent nationality unless they've been residing in ireland legally for a period of 3 yrs out of last 4. I'm gonna be Irish citizen in 2 weeks time,but I understand that I'm always gonna be seen as immigrant and none indigen,but a naturalised citizen. It is the way of the world my friend.But I understand ur anger towards such stupendous notion.

you shouldn't be seen as anything but irish after 22 of september, and if anyone told u otherwise, just put your passport in his face

Mnnnnn @ Rachellyn in the 80s the United States declare Jew as a race,fact! Even many Jews disagree with this affirmation. Half of all Jews living in United States does not believe in Judaism. Ed Miliband of Uk Labour Party is Jewish but an atheist. To be called a Jew does not denote a religious theis.

This is how its classified:
Who is a Jew?

A Jew is any person whose mother was a Jew or any person who has gone through the formal process of conversion to Judaism.

It is important to note that being a Jew has nothing to do with what you believe or what you do. A person born to non-Jewish parents who has not undergone the formal process of conversion but who believes everything that Orthodox Jews believe and observes every law and custom of Judaism is still a non-Jew, even in the eyes of the most liberal movements of Judaism, and a person born to a Jewish mother who is an atheist and never practices the Jewish religion is still a Jew, even in the eyes of the ultra-Orthodox. In this sense, Judaism is more like a nationality than like other religions, and being Jewish is like a citizenship. See What Is Judaism?

@Rachel - from where you got the idea on how to become jewish? Im jewish myself, and I certainly should refer to you as my new funky hakham - maybe this will silence you @bebo on me digging for our roots.

@Bebo - chill out, we all like Shatter, I can not find anyone on boards here had any criticism against him when it comes to natrulisation.

we are all EMIGRANTS,(at least until you bebo get your passport, then it will be a shame to say you are an xxx country emigrant who is fully irish now, then deny whatever you want.. this is normal thing in developing world)

We are here to see the differences between previous and current procedures implemented by MoJ, hence I said no character abuse or defamation. if you have productive thing, that contains zero accusation, please share here. if your understanding for http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emigration varies from what others think/believe, then keep it for you (exactly like the way we keep our religions and politics to ourselves)

all done now? lets just move into ACTUAL changes happening in the process of natrulisation..

guys, just take it easy

we know tht alan shatter has brought in major transformation into how the applications are being take care off,,,,speedyy!!!
i myslf applied for naturalization durng shatter's reign and got my passport durng fitzgerald's. i have been active on this forum for long time. i have read lot of posts on this forum. as per me evrythng is same. process time, reply time, etc. its like ying and yang. may b coz of summer holidays, some people mite have differential opinion. also, thr might be delays coz of ne discrepancy in applicants application/character/documents. we cannot rule out tht aspect as well.

i remeber in last ceremony on 4th july, minister fitzgerald announced tht in last 2 years ths govt (or mr shatter i shud say) has processed 72000 applications of naturalization and thy wud keep continue the saga of alan shatter, the transformation of speedy naturalization. tht's y in sept we again have around 3100 applicants attending the ceremony.

so just relax,people who have still not got thr invite for ths ceremony, i wud say its just not end. we r far much bettr in ireland, where thr is not test to be given for passport, like in germany, france, UK. just stay in ireland for 5 years and u become irish by default