Irish Visa... Class D

wiggsy · Post by **wiggsy** » Fri May 17, 2013 4:05 pm

Hi, firstly, Im sorry if this should of been posted in the Ireland forum, but since it relates to EEA...

We are currently applying for the Irish visa for my wife (no point making things more difficult then they need be).

However, we had to answer all the questions on the form online... it wouldnt allow us to proceed with the application without selecting an answer.

so the questions we have problems with:
1) Refused a visa to any other country.? - YES (UK)
2) required to leave, refused entry or deported from any other country? - NO - no removal instructions have been issued, despite the UKBA stating "you are expected to leave"
3) do you have right to return to the country where you are currently resident (UK)...

Now, i believe, that the answers could possibly cause problems... so i wrote the following letter in support of my wifes application...:

I am writing in reference to support my wife's application for a Class D visa to enter Ireland on the basis of accompanying myself and our children. I am a self employed photographer, and have a legitimate right to provide my services within the Republic of Ireland, due to Directive 2004/38/EC my wife is entitled to travel with myself.

My wife is the primary carer of two young British Children and therefore since the ruling of Case C-34/09 clarified TFEU Article 20 to read that a member state cannot remove, or deny a right of residence to the primary carer of a member-state child, my wife has a legal right to return to the UK on the basis of this ruling. Her right of entry is also clarified in my FOI request to UKBA which can be found online at the following address (note: it is clearly mentioned that an EEA Family Permit is not required, although it is advisable to avoid possible “obstacles”): https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/ ... ing-383585 (https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/ ... 026968.pdf - Attached)

My wife was originally refused a visa to remain in the United Kingdom as the partner of a settled person (myself). However, as Article 20 of the TFEU gives my wife the right to remain within the UK her residence within the UK remains legal. I also point out that regardless of this, case C-127/08 of the ECJ ~ Metock and Others ruled the following:

1. Directive 2004/38/EC of the European Parliament and of the Council of 29 April 2004 on the right of citizens of the Union and their family members to move and reside freely within the territory of the Member States amending Regulation (EEC) No 1612/68 and repealing Directives 64/221/EEC, 68/360/EEC, 72/194/EEC, 73/148/EEC, 75/34/EEC, 75/35/EEC, 90/364/EEC, 90/365/EEC and 93/96/EEC precludes legislation of a Member State which requires a national of a non-member country who is the spouse of a Union citizen residing in that Member State but not possessing its nationality to have previously been lawfully resident in another Member State before arriving in the host Member State, in order to benefit from the provisions of that directive.
2. Article 3(1) of Directive 2004/38 must be interpreted as meaning that a national of a non-member country who is the spouse of a Union citizen residing in a Member State whose nationality he does not possess and who accompanies or joins that Union citizen benefits from the provisions of that directive, irrespective of when and where their marriage took place and of how the national of a non-member country entered the host Member State.

I outline clearly that my wife will be travelling with myself and our children (British Citizens). We have at least a 3 month unrestricted right to entry into Ireland (not to mention our right to reside within Ireland due to the CTA agreement). I am also aware that no fee can be charged for my wife’s visa application. My wife's application includes the passport of our daughter, our marriage certificate, my wife's passport and a COPY of my passport. This is all of the documentation which is required to be supplied for a visa to the spouse of an EEA national who will be accompanying her spouse/dependants.

Yours,

Does anybody have anything additonal to add / or recommend removing anything? - i am only going to post a copy of my passport, as I intend to go to Ireland next week with my brother to look for work/place to live etc.. (and whilst i dont need my passport, it makes it a hell of a lot easier to prove ID to potential employers).

EUsmileWEallsmile · Post by **EUsmileWEallsmile** » Fri May 17, 2013 6:14 pm

I will move this to Ireland forum.

EUsmileWEallsmile · Post by **EUsmileWEallsmile** » Fri May 17, 2013 6:17 pm

Does your wife have any UK-issued residence documentation, if so what is it?

wiggsy · Post by **wiggsy** » Fri May 17, 2013 6:37 pm

EUsmileWEallsmile wrote:Does your wife have any UK-issued residence documentation, if so what is it?

All she has ATM is the IS96... She has an application for a Derivative Residence Card, but im pretty confident that it will fail... hence Ireland.

IntegratedMigrant · Post by **IntegratedMigrant** » Fri May 17, 2013 6:59 pm

Are you a British Citizen? If yes then I dont see your wife having any problems coming with you here in Ireland, given the fact that you are exercising your right as an EU Citizen.

If you're not a British or an EU Citizen, then its a different ball game.

Directive/2004/38/EC · Post by **Directive/2004/38/EC** » Fri May 17, 2013 11:23 pm

What citizenship do you have?
When do you want to go to Ireland?
On what basis is your wife presently in the UK?

wiggsy · Post by **wiggsy** » Wed May 22, 2013 1:03 am

sorry for the delay...

i am BC, as are my children.

My youngest doesnt have a passport, due to the CTA i didnt think it would be needed (however i read that you need photo id to prove nationality? - is it best to apply for his passport?

my daughter has a BC passport, which is to be sent off...

http://www.embassyofireland.co.uk/uploa ... 200109.pdf

states that i need to send my (*UK) original passport - will this still be needed - since sending our daughters (UK) passport?

we are thinking of going within a month. - the sooner we get there, the sooner we'll be back and all

the plan is to go over with me brother to sort place to live etc. register for PPS etc... then wife n kids come over afterwards. I will need to return to the UK to end tenancy etc (and thus help show the "legitimacy of our move" [in addition to saving the £700/month rent]).

I'll change all my addresses etc...

I plan to take my car etc... all our utilities are on a rolling contract, except my mobile - which ends in aug. so that'll get its address changed too. - been to my bank, and they confirmed that i can change my address to an irish address - but would need to provide proof of address [they confirmed an irish TV license will do - Barclays and Halifax])

my wife has no "formal" leave to remain - however, i have argued with UKBA that despite their interpretation, the fact that i have worked in the EU previously (before marriage - didnt live together) still entitles my wife to remain in the uk as my spouse - since upon return tot he uk i am the bearer of a seperate EEA state passport.

this in addition to the fact of her being the primary carer for our kids (i wouldnt be able to manage with two kids - i could just about scrape by myself

)

Brigid from Ireland · Post by **Brigid from Ireland** » Fri May 24, 2013 1:37 pm

Use the UK bank account to open a bank account in Ireland - you will need passport, proof of address and maybe a pps number.

The reason is that if you keep the UK bank account this is used to show that your move to Ireland is not permanent. I consider it a stupid rule, but sometimes people are basically looking for a reason to refuse stuff to immigrants, and I have seen this reason used.

If you are a self employed photographer, ring Revenue as soon as you get a PPS number (or e-mail) and inform them that you are self employed. Then you are a migrant worker, even if you can't get a job, because self employed people are covered by the ruling. Once revenue have been informed that you are self employed, you - the EU citizen - should apply for child benefit. Send off proof that your kids are enrolled in school in Ireland (or a letter from a doctor saying he has seen the kids if they are pre-school age) and that you have told Revenue you are self employed and that is the child benefit sorted out.

If you do want to get a job as an employee - take anything that is 20 or more hours per week - even minimum wage - as with kids this is enough to gain Family Income Supplement also, so you can live well if you get 20 hours work and have kids.

Make sure you have an original marriage cert and both passports in your possession when you travel to Ireland with your wife.

Your wife's visa refusal for the UK is not relevant as you are a UK citizen.

Is there any chance you have a parent born in Ireland? If yes your children can get an Irish passport. In this case I would get an Irish passport for the child who currently has no passport - this would be proof that your wife is mother to an Irish citizen child - a whole other range of rights to that of spouse to EU migrant worker.

wiggsy · Post by **wiggsy** » Fri May 24, 2013 2:39 pm

Brigid from Ireland wrote: Is there any chance you have a parent born in Ireland? If yes your children can get an Irish passport. In this case I would get an Irish passport for the child who currently has no passport - this would be proof that your wife is mother to an Irish citizen child - a whole other range of rights to that of spouse to EU migrant worker.

Shockingly, when we went to the Irish Embassy (not the visa office - we were by the embassy, walking past so popped in)... the lady in there started to tell us about this...

TBF, whilst benefits will sort us out to begin with, We dont wish to claim anything we don't NEED. - but this was my plan for the Child Benefit etc.

We are considering settling in Ireland... the only thing that stops us is my child from previous relationship and contact. (Benefits of my wife having Irish nationality would be amazing - supporting her parents to come to the UK for visits etc - instead of the "tour party" visas which cost thousands every time etc).

but not got irish in me (that i know of) - although we do have some scots in the family.

Brigid from Ireland wrote: If you do want to get a job as an employee - take anything that is 20 or more hours per week - even minimum wage - as with kids this is enough to gain Family Income Supplement also, so you can live well if you get 20 hours work and have kids.

I read that if im self employed you cant gain FIS? so it would mean that I would need to work the 20 hours? and "stop trading"?

Brigid from Ireland · Post by **Brigid from Ireland** » Sat May 25, 2013 12:04 pm

My understanding is open to correction, but this is what I have found.

If the only income is self employment, then no FIS.

If there is a job 20 hours/week or more, get FIS (if low income). If the income is too high, no FIS.

If there is a job 20 hours/week or more and self employment, you also get FIS, but the income from self employment is counted so it reduces the amount of FIS you get. So you don't need to 'stop trading' but the amount of FIS may be less.

If you plan to have another child, it may be more profitable for your wife to be self employed rather than you, as if she pays self employed tax/prsi she gets maternity benefit (about 7K). There is a waiting period for this so if she is currently pregnant it won't work.

In general if there is income from self employment in a household it is better to split the income in order to maximise benefits and reduce tax. Eg Farmer earns 60k, pays top rate of tax (approx 50%) on final 20K. Change this to say farmer earns 40K, wife earns 20K, then both pay low tax (say 20%). Change it to farmer earns 15K, wife earns 15K, three kids each earn 10K, pay almost no tax. Family income is still 60k, but tax saving and benefits gained are huge.

There is a considerable saving, also wife gets maternity benefit when pregnant, also wife gets old age pension in own right. Can mean hundreds of thousands extra to the family over a period of years.

The same applies if you have older children and are self employed - all kids go 'on the books' as soon as possible, as they all have tax free allowances and payment of salary to kids reduces parents income. I have seen some families reduce the parents income to a level where the kids are eligible for higher education grants, even though the income into the household is very high, it is mostly in the kids name, so they qualify for lots of stuff.

I won't even get started telling you about the people in well paid jobs (100K plus) who run a self employed business at a huge loss to reduce the tax on the income from employment. They avoid tax and acquire asset wealth stored in the business.

Edited to add: It is not clear how many children you have, or their living arrangements. If you have children with the current spouse, they get Irish child benefit, as the whole family is living and working in Ireland. If there is an additional older child living in UK with a previous spouse, then the previous spouse gets the UK rate of child benefit and you can apply for a 'top up' to the Irish rate of child benefit in respect of the child living with ex in UK. Hope that makes sense. If so, you need the birth cert for the older child also and get a pps number for that child when you get them for yourself, the current wife and children living in Ireland. I am not sure if the older child in this example can be added to your FIS claim - write a note with your application form and explain circumstances.

wiggsy · Post by **wiggsy** » Mon May 27, 2013 11:20 pm

Brigid from Ireland wrote:Edited to add: It is not clear how many children you have, or their living arrangements. If you have children with the current spouse, they get Irish child benefit, as the whole family is living and working in Ireland. If there is an additional older child living in UK with a previous spouse, then the previous spouse gets the UK rate of child benefit and you can apply for a 'top up' to the Irish rate of child benefit in respect of the child living with ex in UK. Hope that makes sense. If so, you need the birth cert for the older child also and get a pps number for that child when you get them for yourself, the current wife and children living in Ireland. I am not sure if the older child in this example can be added to your FIS claim - write a note with your application form and explain circumstances.

OK, my current living situation is:

Myself and Wife live with our (now) 10 month old baby boy and our 3 1/2 year old girl. My Son from prev relationship comes and stays with us every other weekend. (although before CSA involvement I did have twice weekly contact - but ex found out such regular contact reduced her CSA :@)

My Ex has not allowed me to be named on the Birth Certificate as his father (and as of yet, ive been unable to get it to court for a PR order to be filed). I do however have no end of letters from the CSA outlining my payments to the CSA etc. (would that be sufficient ? - or would I need to be named on his birth certificate as his father?).

In addition to this, my worry is that if/when we move to Ireland, his mother will stop our contact etc [although I'm fairly confident her father will do a lot to aid in keeping up contact - as he does have my sons best interests at heart (whether or not he likes me).]

My Ex gets £20.30 (i think?) in child benefit for my son (her only child). My wife and myself get 33.70 (paid in my name - been having problems trying to change it to my wifes name :@ - due to her status etc :S) - although this will stop as soon as we cease to be "Habitually resident" (-I feel confident that this should be the day we board the ferry, (Or I finally get my PPS and registered as self employed etc in Ireland if later) - so as not to affect our status in Ireland.

Don't suppose you know any cheap camp sites I could use as a "residential address" for a couple of weeks before we make our move? [or is that not possible to apply for PPS ETC - and setup before we uproot the kids etc].

( I hate to be a "benefit scrounger"... but after looking into it all.. Im wondering if maybe something simular to Section 17 of the UK childrens act exists in Ireland to help us "Set up"? )

As for another child. We dont currently plan to have any more kids. [all five seats in the car are full. dont fancy a 7 seater

- in addition to money, don't think it'd be a good idea

- although, we already plan to split the self employment income between ourselves]

Brigid from Ireland · Post by **Brigid from Ireland** » Thu May 30, 2013 10:29 pm

Proof of paying maintenance to the CSA is sufficient to show that you are the father maintaining the child. So that is perfect. You will need the birth cert but the fact that you are not named on it as father is not relevant, the mother has accepted you are the father by taking maintenance money from you. So use the birth cert and the record of paying CSA money to get a pps for this child.

Contact is not required for child benefit (not sure for FIS) - child benefit requires you to maintain the child (not required to see the child, paying is enough), so if you keep a record of paying maintenance you get the top up of child benefit as long as you pay maintenance. (This could delay your child benefit claim for the other two children, so it is a good idea to get pps number for the two children of the current wife, claim child benefit and once you have that payment secured get PPS for older child and attempt to add him to existing claim. Otherwise no payment for all three children until they decide state of oldest child. So you get benefit for two youngest, then apply for older child. )

I have never heard of section 17 of the UK Childrens Act?

Working 20hours and getting FIS is the easiest way to get additional money. FIS stops if the work stops.

Alternatively if either parent has been working as an employee in the UK, then working one day in Ireland as an employee can transfer benefit rights here - complicated rules - no point in going into these unless you were a worker (not self employed) in year 2011.

Some people stay in a cheap hostel for as long as it takes to get a PPS number.

There is also a little known facility for people who are employed or self employed and who fail to earn enough to lift above poverty line to claim some money from the community welfare officer. This is risky in your case as your wife is non-EU and it is considered 'relying on state funds'. So claiming every week is a bad idea, but claiming for ten weeks cos you are injured and can't do the self employed work is ok. It is seen as 'anyone can get sick, he usually works' so no problem. Some people do this for two ten week periods, and work the other 30 weeks of the year and generally no problem, as illness is not your fault.

Child benefit and FIS are not 'relying on state funds'.

Make sure that your wife is self employed in her own right (paying class S contributions herself) rather than paying another class of prsi like class M as a dependent wife helping you in the business.

wiggsy · Post by **wiggsy** » Fri May 31, 2013 6:22 pm

Brigid from Ireland wrote:Proof of paying maintenance to the CSA is sufficient to show that you are the father maintaining the child. So that is perfect. You will need the birth cert but the fact that you are not named on it as father is not relevant, the mother has accepted you are the father by taking maintenance money from you. So use the birth cert and the record of paying CSA money to get a pps for this child.

Contact is not required for child benefit (not sure for FIS) - child benefit requires you to maintain the child (not required to see the child, paying is enough), so if you keep a record of paying maintenance you get the top up of child benefit as long as you pay maintenance. (This could delay your child benefit claim for the other two children, so it is a good idea to get pps number for the two children of the current wife, claim child benefit and once you have that payment secured get PPS for older child and attempt to add him to existing claim. Otherwise no payment for all three children until they decide state of oldest child. So you get benefit for two youngest, then apply for older child. )

I have never heard of section 17 of the UK Childrens Act?

Working 20hours and getting FIS is the easiest way to get additional money. FIS stops if the work stops.

Alternatively if either parent has been working as an employee in the UK, then working one day in Ireland as an employee can transfer benefit rights here - complicated rules - no point in going into these unless you were a worker (not self employed) in year 2011.

Some people stay in a cheap hostel for as long as it takes to get a PPS number.

There is also a little known facility for people who are employed or self employed and who fail to earn enough to lift above poverty line to claim some money from the community welfare officer. This is risky in your case as your wife is non-EU and it is considered 'relying on state funds'. So claiming every week is a bad idea, but claiming for ten weeks cos you are injured and can't do the self employed work is ok. It is seen as 'anyone can get sick, he usually works' so no problem. Some people do this for two ten week periods, and work the other 30 weeks of the year and generally no problem, as illness is not your fault.

Child benefit and FIS are not 'relying on state funds'.

Make sure that your wife is self employed in her own right (paying class S contributions herself) rather than paying another class of prsi like class M as a dependent wife helping you in the business.

Thanks Bridged...

ATM we are uncertain about a perm move... but after so much looking etc, it doesnt seem so bad. and even though further away could help increase contact with my son once again.

Even though CSA are involved, we (wife and I) still spend a hell of a lot of money on clothes, toys etc for my son. the only problem with a long distance would be the extras would cut down to allow for travel costs. (ferry, petrol etc)

section 17 of the childrens act:
https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/ ... ing-392066

and as for tax for wife... looks more complicated than uk law?

Brigid from Ireland · Post by **Brigid from Ireland** » Fri May 31, 2013 8:21 pm

The tax for your wife is the same as for you, so long as she gets a stamp saying she has the right to work.

The point is that if a person earns a certain amount (I think 5 thousand euro/year) they can pay S prsi, thus gaining rights to the old age pension from Ireland.

So if you have a business and earn more than 10k, split it between you and your wife. So you both pay class S prsi.

For a married couple it is better if they both have income, tax wise. So if a husband here has a farm and a job, and is wife stays at home, the farm income is usually presented in her name - tax saving and pension gain.

The other option is you earn all the money - this has pension implications for her in old age.

PS Thanks for the link - I love it.

wiggsy · Post by **wiggsy** » Mon Jul 01, 2013 11:34 am

Brigid from Ireland wrote: PS Thanks for the link - I love it.

Have a look on my other FOI requests, quite a lot of info in regards to a child's rights (plan to use the documents in court upon appeal for refusal of DRC once the refusal comes through)...

However:

Still waiting on Irish visa...

Timeline:

3rd june 2013 (two weeks after appying):

From: "londonvisaoffice@dfa.ie" <londonvisaoffice@dfa.ie>
To: wifes email...
Sent: Monday, 3 June 2013, 15:33
Subject: Visa for Ireland *REF*

Dear Applicant

Your visa for Ireland cannot be processed because you did not submit your previous passport(s); you have stated on you application that you have been resident in the UK for 5 years, however, the passport submitted was issued in April, 2013. Please send these documents to:

The Visa Officer *REF*
The Embassy of Ireland
114A Cromwell Road
London SW7 4ES
The Visa Officer
London

so replied:

To: "londonvisaoffice@dfa.ie" <londonvisaoffice@dfa.ie>
Cc: "solvit@bis.gsi.gov.uk" <solvit@bis.gsi.gov.uk>
Sent: Monday, 3 June 2013, 22:22
Subject: Re: Visa for Ireland xxxxxx

Dear Sirs:
Ref: xxxxxxx

I am writing in connection with my wife's application for an entry clearance visa to Ireland (Mrs xxxxxx). My name is xxxxxxx. I am a Union Citizen from the United Kingdom. I am not a national of the Republic of Ireland.

I find it utterly unbelievable that your team has decided to fail to process my wifes application for a visa upon the grounds that she did not submit her previous passport.

Directive 2004/38/EC http://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/Lex ... 123:EN:PDF

Article 6 - Right of residence for up to three months

1. Union citizens shall have the right of residence on the territory of another Member State for a period of up to three months without any conditions or any formalities other than the requirement to hold a valid identity card or passport.

2. The provisions of paragraph 1 shall also apply to family members in possession of a valid passport who are not nationals of a Member State, accompanying or joining the Union citizen

Clearly my wife is under no obligation to submit her expired passport to yourselves. All that is required is that she can prove that she is the family member of a Union Citizen. We have provided documentary evidence that my wife is the family member of THREE BRITISH CITIZENS.

In addition to this, I also remind yourselves that I am a Selfemployed Photographer. I attach a copy of my Business card's (one for UK use, and one for International use) and also provide a link to my website (http://ourphotograph.co.uk/) outlining and emphasising this fact. Whilst I am not resident within Ireland currently, the reason for my wife's visa application is to enable us to move to Ireland and live there together within your territory (as is our legal right). I also make reference to my United Kingdom Unique Tax Reference as a self employed person (xxxxxxxxxx) - which is obviously different to my National Insurance Number (NINo - which is Simular to the Irish PPS Number).

Article 5 - Right of Entry

Member States shall grant such persons every facility to obtain the necessary visas. Such visas shall be issued free of charge as soon as possible and on the basis of an accelerated procedure.

My wife will submit her expired passport tomorrow morning via the post office. However, as a Union Citizen, I wish to raise a formal complaint into the processing of my wife's visa application not being in accordance with Directive 2004/38/EC.

My postal address is: xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx.

I am aware that only a copy of my passport was provided to yourselves with my wifes application. However, with my wife's application was evidence of her relationship to two other British Citizens. (xxxx and xxxx) - of which xxxx current UK Passport was submitted, in addition to Birth Certificates for xxxx and xxxxxx.

In addition to this. The fact that my wife has been resident in the United Kingdom for five years has no bearing on her application for a visa to Ireland. Please explain your reference to my wifes current residential status?
•There is no requirement that non-EU family members have previously been resident in the EU. An EU citizen and family members can move from outside the EU to an EU country (but not directly to the EU citizen’s home country!) on the basis of this Directive
•Family members must be travelling with or joining the EU citizen, in which case they have the same free movement rights as the EU citizen. They do not, in general, have an independent right of free movement to new places.

I clearly outlined in my supporting letter accompanying my wife's application that she will be travelling with myself AND our British children, as you can see from above - I have copied the Solvit team from the UK into this email - and as this response to my wifes valid application for a Visa to enter Ireland clearly hinders my rights under Directive 2004/38/EC I would expect that they process my formal greivance in accordance with policies laid out.

Whilst I am replying from my Wife's email address, I am doing so - so as to confirm the fact that I do infact have authorisation to act on behalf of my wife (and as my wife's rights stem from my own rights I am also aware that it is infact the EU citizen [myself and our children] who need to raise the grievance.

My own email address is either (work email) or (personal email).

Your's Sincerely,
me.

followed by reply:

From: "londonvisaoffice@dfa.ie" <londonvisaoffice@dfa.ie>
To: wifes email
Cc: solvit@bis.gsi.gov.uk
Sent: Tuesday, June 4, 2013 9:48 AM
Subject: RE: Visa for Ireland *ref*

Dear Mr. P,

Please allow me to clarify.

Your wife's visa application has not been refused. We cannot process it as the application is incomplete; all required documents have not been submitted, that is why we have requested that your wife kindly submit her previous passports(s). This is a standard request for all visa applications, regardless of category.

We have not asked for evidence of your wife's residence. In the application form submitted by your wife it was stated that she has lived in the UK for 5 years and her passport was issued 2 months ago, your wife also disclosed that this passport was not her first passport and no further details,(as required), of any previous passports have been submitted. Please be aware that a passport is a travel document, not a residency document.

My apologies for any confusion caused by the previous correspondence you received from this office.

Kind regards,
The Visa Officer
Embassy of Ireland
London

To which I replied:

From: Wifes Email
To: "londonvisaoffice@dfa.ie" <londonvisaoffice@dfa.ie>
Cc: "solvit@bis.gsi.gov.uk" <solvit@bis.gsi.gov.uk>; "my email"
Sent: Tuesday, 18 June 2013, 14:25
Subject: Re: Visa for Ireland *ref*

Visa Officer,

Re: Visa for Ireland *ref*

As I highlighted in my previous message. Directive 2004/38/EC is quite clear. All that my wife is required to submit for a COMPLETE APPLICATION is Proof of ID and Proof of Relationship to an EU citizen who intends to excersise treaty rights. Treaty rights even includes travel for up to three months even as a simple visitor.

As you state that the only document that was missing to process my wifes application was her passport (which as I reitterate was not required under EU legislation) when can we expect her visa to be supplied. I would state that the time between her application for a visa, and now has far exceeded a burdon on an EU citizens rights to excersise his treaty rights... wouldn't you? It's nearing a month already.

My wifes passport was provided to yourselves via recorded delivery on 4th june. Still no response. Wouldn't you say that your delay is infact breaching Directive 2004/38/EC...

Underlining two sets of words is irrelevant. You do not disagree that my wifes application has met the terms of Directive 2004//38/EC, even if not meeting your own terms. All that my wife was required to submit was her proof of ID, proof of relationship and then she is to be granted the same rights and freedoms as the eu citizen she intends to travel with.

for your information also, the recorded delivery barcode for the passport is: KFxxxxxxxGB

the attached signature of alan's, along with the information from royal mail's track and trace makes it clear that the passport has arrived with yourselves on the 5th june.

http://www.royalmail.com/track-trace

Delivered
Your item with reference KFxxxxxxxxGB was delivered from our SOUTH KENSINGTON Delivery Office on 05/06/13 .

Thank you for using this service.

Therefore, please explain, as an EU citizen, who has raised a formal greivance - in writing - with your offices in relation to direct breach of EU legislation... what is happening?

Your's

Mr WP

to which no response has came, so I have:

Subject: Re: Visa for Ireland *ref*
From: my mail
To: wifes mail; londonvisaoffice@dfa.ie;
Cc: solvit@bis.gsi.gov.uk;
Date: Friday, 21 June 2013, 12:03

Visa Officer...

Ref: *ref*

I am writing in relation to the application for a visa for my wife, Mrs M P.

I wrote to you previously on the 18th June (below). Please can you indicate when we shall receive the visa applied for. You indicated that the only issue with her application was lack of her expired passport (an issue I have raised a formal compalint about).

With all other required documents being submitted, and the requested passport being sent in the beginning of June (arriving on the 5th). I am well aware the application must be processed in an ACCELLERATED PROCESS. Therefore, when will the application be processed, and visa be issued to my wife?

I reitterate that holding up the process is hindering my rights to excersise my treaty rights - along with our British children's rights.

Your's

Mr WP

wiggsy · Post by **wiggsy** » Mon Jul 01, 2013 11:40 am

Also, im not sure how effective solvit will be:

Subject: RE: Visa for Ireland *irish ref* - Complaint
From: Korcz Christine (ETID) (Chris.Korcz@bis.gsi.gov.uk)
To: my email;
Date: Wednesday, 19 June 2013, 12:57

Good afternoon Mr Pearsall

SOLVIT has a deadline of between ten and fourteen weeks in which to obtain a response to a complaint. My understanding from the communication I have received is that the expired passport was submitted at the beginning of June and from this date the Irish Authorities should make a decision within 15 days although this deadline can be extended where there are concerns that need investigation. I am not able to take forward a complaint that the deadline has passed or about unreasonable delays until an unreasonable period of time has passed.

If you do not receive a response within a few weeks, we will accept the complaint but you should be aware that we are not able to undertake to try to obtain a response earlier than the SOLVIT deadline of ten weeks.

Regards
Christine Korcz
UK SOLVIT Centre
Direct line: 020 7215 2833

I have however just emailed:

Christine,

Further to your message below, As it has been longer than the 15 days, and there are clearly no concerns to consider (my wife has a valid passport, and is obviously not trying to circumvent the Irish immigration process, as I am an EU citizen...)

Does this mean you are willing to write to them on our behalf, and get the ball moving?

Your's

Mr W P

wiggsy · Post by **wiggsy** » Thu Jul 04, 2013 12:34 pm

Looking positive...?

From: "londonvisaoffice@dfa.ie" <londonvisaoffice@dfa.ie>
To: *Wife*; *Myself*
Sent: Thursday, July 4, 2013 1:03 PM
Subject: RE: Visa for Ireland *REF*

Dear Meliana/Wayne,

Your application will be approved, printed and posted tomorrow evening.

In accordance with current policy the visa granted will be a single entry short stay visa and once you move to Ireland you will be required to apply for

a Residence Card of a family member of an EU Citizen to the EU Treaty Right Section, 13-14 Burgh Quay, Dublin 2.

Warm regards

David

Visa Office
Embassy of Ireland
London

dalebutt · Post by **dalebutt** » Thu Jul 04, 2013 12:39 pm

Congratulations wiggsy!

wiggsy · Post by **wiggsy** » Thu Jul 04, 2013 1:05 pm

dalebutt wrote:Congratulations wiggsy!

The only problem being... not certain will be using the visa yet... But at least we know *(and its confirmed)* that she CAN get the visa...

wiggsy · Post by **wiggsy** » Sat Jul 06, 2013 1:40 pm

FYI...

Despite applying for a Class D long term multiple entry visa. The embassy have infact only issued a Class C visa (as stated in the email above).

This visa is endorsed:
*VISA APPLICATION REF* *DOB OF WIFE*
*COUNTRY OF PASSPORT (not nationality)*
"VISIT - Acc EU Spouse B/O"

The visa is valid from 05 Jul 2013 until 04 Oct 2013 (3 months).
Number of Entries: 01
Duration of Stay: XX

So we have three months to enter ("hassle" free) - and my wife can travel over without me at a later date if needed.

The embassy did not return my passport photocopy or my letter of support [including copies of law, and FOI responses from The Home Office) (I assume this has been kept for a specific reason?)

acme4242 · Post by **acme4242** » Sun Jul 07, 2013 5:42 am

The Irish Embassy in London has a negative history, resulting in numerous
petitions and complaints.

Here is one successful petition that is perhaps of interest to you,
especially the official Government reply, that says the visa should be a multi-journey class D.
Even class D or class C makes no difference for EU family members.

Official reply from Bobby McDonagh
http://acme424.wordpress.com/2009/04/15 ... rish-perm/
and here

Letter to Irish perm Bobby McDonagh
http://acme424.wordpress.com/2009/04/15 ... sh-perm-0/
and here

Petition by Mr Semmig against the Irish Embassy in London
http://acme424.wordpress.com/2009/04/16/petitions/
and here

Directive/2004/38/EC · Post by **Directive/2004/38/EC** » Sun Jul 07, 2013 9:16 am

They should only require you to have a short term visa, the equivalent of a tourist visa.

And most embassies are totally random about returning supporting documentation (other than the marriage certificate and passport)

Brigid from Ireland · Post by **Brigid from Ireland** » Sun Jul 07, 2013 8:22 pm

Hi Wiggsy,

Are you planning to travel to Ireland within the three months?

If not, have you checked to see if your wife can get another Irish visa if she does not use this one?

If she can only get one Irish visa then she needs to decide for or against Ireland within the three months and make the move to Ireland if necessary.

wiggsy · Post by **wiggsy** » Thu Aug 01, 2013 12:07 am

Brigid from Ireland wrote:Hi Wiggsy,

Are you planning to travel to Ireland within the three months?

If not, have you checked to see if your wife can get another Irish visa if she does not use this one?

If she can only get one Irish visa then she needs to decide for or against Ireland within the three months and make the move to Ireland if necessary.

Hey Bridged, I only just noticed this. - There is no restriction that if she doesn't use a visa she cannot get another visa, is there?

When/if we actually move (we are appealing the refusal decision - and hopefully its a possitive

) I don't see that they can refuse another visa, and if they do, we will just come over any way... - Directive 2004/38/EC allows it

Immigrationboards.com: Immigration, work visa and work permit discussion board

Irish Visa... Class D

Irish Visa... Class D