Logistical questions about bringing non-EU wife

I am British citizen and my wife to be (marrying in the first week of Feb) is Ethiopian. We intend to move to Dublin ASAP after marrying and live there together - not just as a stepping stone back to the UK under the Singh route but as a possible long term move in itself.

Can anyone answer these for me, I'm just trying to finally tie together all the information as our marriage draws nearer:

1. Accompanying versus. Joining - is it really just as easy in practice for us to turn up to the Irish embassy in her home city and ask for an EUTR visa to travel to Ireland together? Will the embassy ask for 'proof of genuine relationship (i.e. skype logs, letters and all the rest of it). I've also heard of this kind of visa being refused by one Irish embassy in the Middle East with the reason 'may breach the common travel area into the UK' being given. Is that a real possibility? The person it happened to did have a history of visa issues with the UK so that may have been the real reason.

If it is really easier for me to rent us a flat there first and apply for a 'join' visa I will do it, which brings me on to the next question...

2. If my wife flys independently to join me, she will have to pass through another country to get from Ethiopia to Dublin (UAE, Germany and UK are common ones) - will she have to obtain a visa for that country? Would this be problematic if that country was the UK?

3. If we get an ACCOMPANY visa as outlined in question one, is there a time limit or expiration? For example could we apply for this in February and then use it any time in 2013 (i.e. I come back to Ethiopia at a later date and then travel on with her)? I'm guessing 'no' on this one, but you never know...

What suits you better, travelling together or separately? Suggest you work out what's best for you, don't let the "visa tail wag the dog".

Joining - you may need to demonstrate that you are exercising treaty rights in Ireland if you've been resident more than three months.

Accompanying - you have three months before you must be a worker, self-sufficient or student.

EUsmileWEallsmile wrote:What suits you better, travelling together or separately? Suggest you work out what's best for you, don't let the "visa tail wag the dog".

Joining - you may need to demonstrate that you are exercising treaty rights in Ireland if you've been resident more than three months.

Accompanying - you have three months before you must be a worker, self-sufficient or student.

But we can reasonably assume three further months as a jobseeker if needed, provided no social welfare being claimed, let alone an 'unreasonable burden' on the welfare state right? I was under the impression the three months time limit was a bit of a non-issue provided you didn't actively take the mickey...

To be honest there are pros and cons to both the travel options (joining and accompanying) for us, that's why I'm just trying to work out the advantages and disadvantages of each in themselves, as processes.

But we can reasonably assume three further months as a jobseeker if needed, provided no social welfare being claimed, let alone an 'unreasonable burden' on the welfare state right? I was under the impression the three months time limit was a bit of a non-issue provided you didn't actively take the mickey...

You will have to prove that you are self-sufficient together with your spouse especially when registering for a Residence Card after those three months. As you know, there's an option of studying.

To be honest there are pros and cons to both the travel options (joining and accompanying) for us, that's why I'm just trying to work out the advantages and disadvantages of each in themselves, as processes.

Think of what best suits you (personally speaking as Non-Eu, I would much prefer if you travelled together)

Malika wrote:

But we can reasonably assume three further months as a jobseeker if needed, provided no social welfare being claimed, let alone an 'unreasonable burden' on the welfare state right? I was under the impression the three months time limit was a bit of a non-issue provided you didn't actively take the mickey...

You will have to prove that you are self-sufficient together with your spouse especially when registering for a Residence Card after those three months. As you know, there's an option of studying.

To be honest there are pros and cons to both the travel options (joining and accompanying) for us, that's why I'm just trying to work out the advantages and disadvantages of each in themselves, as processes.

Think of what best suits you (personally speaking as Non-Eu, I would much prefer if you travelled together)

Thanks, can you explain the reasoning there?

Also do you think there is a big difference (in terms of being preferable options) between us applying to travel there together before I have any kind of residence in Ireland, and applying to travel together after I already live there and have a rental contract? I mean are the Irish embassies more keen to grant the latter type of visa than the former?

Thanks, can you explain the reasoning there?

The reasoning behind it is to do with all the hassle with Immigration Officers considering that you will have to transit. Being in the company of someone you are married to, I think, prevents so many questions being asked.

Also do you think there is a big difference (in terms of being preferable options) between us applying to travel there together before I have any kind of residence in Ireland, and applying to travel together after I already live there and have a rental contract? I mean are the Irish embassies more keen to grant the latter type of visa than the former?

I really do not know which is preferable.

Malika wrote:

Thanks, can you explain the reasoning there?

The reasoning behind it is to do with all the hassle with Immigration Officers considering that you will have to transit. Being in the company of someone you are married to, I think, prevents so many questions being asked.

Also do you think there is a big difference (in terms of being preferable options) between us applying to travel there together before I have any kind of residence in Ireland, and applying to travel together after I already live there and have a rental contract? I mean are the Irish embassies more keen to grant the latter type of visa than the former?

I really do not know which is preferable.

Well the problem is that it's a waste of £700+ to take this option, so I really need to know it's essential before doing it. I can totally see your point however particularly as my partner tends to lose her English in 'pressure' situations.

Do you believe it would be wise to do the transit (changeover) through another EU country such as Germany if possible, rather than say UAE or Egypt? I would have assumed they would be more likely to recognise an EUTR visa and be familiar with the concept....

st pauli wrote:I mean are the Irish embassies more keen to grant the latter type of visa than the former?

The facility exists for those applicants accompanying a spouse. Evidence may need to be provided such as a letter from the EU spouse stating this fact.

The facility also exists for applicants joining an EU spouse. In this case, evidence that the EU national is living in accordance with the terms of the directive may be required (there is a three-month grace period).

In each case, the applicant will need to demonstrate the familal ties.

The embassy cannot give preference to either type of applicant.

EUsmileWEallsmile wrote:

st pauli wrote:I mean are the Irish embassies more keen to grant the latter type of visa than the former?

The facility exists for those applicants accompanying a spouse. Evidence may need to be provided such as a letter from the EU spouse stating this fact.

The facility also exists for applicants joining an EU spouse. In this case, evidence that the EU national is living in accordance with the terms of the directive may be required (there is a three-month grace period).

In each case, the applicant will need to demonstrate the familal ties.

The embassy cannot give preference to either type of applicant.

Thanks, when you say demonstrate the familial ties do you mean simply produce a marriage certificate?

st pauli wrote: Thanks, when you say demonstrate the familial ties do you mean simply produce a marriage certificate?

Yes, bear in mind that the marriage certificate may require to be translated and / legalised or apostilised depending on where it takes place.

st pauli wrote: Do you believe it would be wise to do the transit (changeover) through another EU country such as Germany if possible, rather than say UAE or Egypt? I would have assumed they would be more likely to recognise an EUTR visa and be familiar with the concept....

You can use this website to give you an idea as to what problems you might face (care, it is not always 100% accurate).

http://www.iatatravelcentre.com/

Thanks, the legalisation of the certificate shouldn't be a problem as the British Embassy in Ethiopia will do that for us (for a fee)

One question I do have....if I apply for the join spouse visa for her while I am in Ireland, I will have to submit her passport apparently, how can I do that if I am in Ireland and the passport is with her in Ethiopia - is she able to hand it in at the local Irish embassy, is that the idea?

st pauli wrote:Thanks, the legalisation of the certificate shouldn't be a problem as the British Embassy in Ethiopia will do that for us (for a fee)

One question I do have....if I apply for the join spouse visa for her while I am in Ireland, I will have to submit her passport apparently, how can I do that if I am in Ireland and the passport is with her in Ethiopia - is she able to hand it in at the local Irish embassy, is that the idea?

She would apply for the visa abroad and would submit her passport there (plus a copy of yours).

Malika wrote:

But we can reasonably assume three further months as a jobseeker if needed, provided no social welfare being claimed, let alone an 'unreasonable burden' on the welfare state right? I was under the impression the three months time limit was a bit of a non-issue provided you didn't actively take the mickey...

You will have to prove that you are self-sufficient together with your spouse especially when registering for a Residence Card after those three months. As you know, there's an option of studying.[quote

Hi there. I am pretty much in the same situation as you. Do you know where i can find more out about the above? E.g the self sufficient thing and if we are entitled to any benefit at all during the first 3 months (or after) as we have a 1 year old?

Thanks so much, sorry for jumping in on your thread OP

Well if you are self sufficient, that means you are supporting yourself without resources from the state, i.e. no social welfare payments. Plus you have to have medical insurance for the whole family, i.e Eu citizen, applicant and any children

So to re-visit perhaps the trickiest question of the thread....does anyone know if we could apply for the 'accompany spouse' visa for her and then not actually travel that time I am there but at another time when I am in Ethiopia at a later date...say 4-6 months later? Would the visa still be valid?

the visa will be issued with a certain validity dates. You have to enter during the dates that it is valid, even if it is the last day before its expiry. Because the visa is only for the entry and not in itself a permission to stay in the country. Permission to stay in the country will be given at the airport.
from my experience i noticed that when the visa is issued, it is valid kind of straight away and expires in lets say 3 months time. Unless you can request for a specific visa validity period to enter the country when it suits you. anyway, you can ask all that the visa section. they answer email queries.