Marriage to failed asylum seeker in ireland - please help

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Marriage to failed asylum seeker in ireland - please help

Postby anna1 » Fri Sep 23, 2011 9:06 pm

Hi all, bit of a complicated situation but I am hoping someone on here may be able to help us.

My partner is Algerian, I am Irish. We have been together for two years, married in religious law and want to get married in civil law.

He gained entry to the UK on a 6 month student visa, which expired in 2009. After spending a few weeks in the UK, he travelled via boat to Ireland, where he made an asylum seeker application. He was in Ireland for 6 or 7 months, his application was unsucessful. His temporary asylum visa was out of date at this stage, the police came into the hostel he was staying in, and he was then detained in prison and deported back to the UK.

He has been in the UK since July 2010 (i.e since deportation from Ireland). UK Immigration know he is in the country, but have not issued any deportation notice yet.

He is a good, honest person, he has never committed any crimes other than breaking immigration laws.

How do we even go about trying to get married? Do we try in Ireland or in the UK or a different european country? We are desperate to get married legally, we love each other deeply and I cant imagine what would happen if he was to be deported. How do we go about the process? It has to be possible. There must be some way that we can legalise our marriage, and therefore legalise his presence in europe too. His track record being deported etc. is going to make it far harder but there has to be a way around it..

Please.. any advice/help is welcome and really needed. Does anyone know a good organisation we can contact that would give free legal advise in this area? Neither of us have slept properly for months with the worry of it all.

Thankyou,
Anna
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Postby Baumbass » Sat Sep 24, 2011 7:56 am

First and foremost, your potential husband or husband was transfer to Great Britain Under Dublin Convention on the basis of European Immigration protocol Which made it mandamus that, any asylum seeker Or refugee with temporary resident certificate card running From danger Or otherwise must seek such protect from the first country He/she landed, So your husband was not ''Deported''.

However, if he's recognize by the border agency of Britain per his Presence, you can book a marriage in Britain by seeking permission from The secretary of state home office, and if you're lucky the marriage Licence Will be granted, and if refuse their is always room for judicial Review Anyway, if you have the money and energy.

But the most stress free of all like, is to go back to your husband country And do it, but alternatively, you did mentioned aforesaid that, you have Done a religion marriage and if so, and if you have procure a certificate to Authenticate that, or evidence that, the exclusion of other's has taken Place you could file for his re-unification at INIS, Which form part of your Legitimate expectations, under European law as a spouse, which if he has A passport you can exercise that right immediately without ambiguity, Which is the best option of all, hope these few explanation help, i don't Want to start quoting what section or subsection of the law apply but that's Just a standard view, so there're many options available for you to usurp. :D
Don't give up the fight.
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Postby jambalap » Sat Sep 24, 2011 8:32 am

Baumbass wrote:First and foremost, your potential husband or husband was transfer to Great Britain Under Dublin Convention on the basis of European Immigration protocol Which made it mandamus that, any asylum seeker Or refugee with temporary resident certificate card running From danger Or otherwise must seek such protect from the first country He/she landed, So your husband was not ''Deported''.

However, if he's recognize by the border agency of Britain per his Presence, you can book a marriage in Britain by seeking permission from The secretary of state home office, and if you're lucky the marriage Licence Will be granted, and if refuse their is always room for judicial Review Anyway, if you have the money and energy.

But the most stress free of all like, is to go back to your husband country And do it, but alternatively, you did mentioned aforesaid that, you have Done a religion marriage and if so, and if you have procure a certificate to Authenticate that, or evidence that, the exclusion of other's has taken Place you could file for his re-unification at INIS, Which form part of your Legitimate expectations, under European law as a spouse, which if he has A passport you can exercise that right immediately without ambiguity, Which is the best option of all, hope these few explanation help, i don't Want to start quoting what section or subsection of the law apply but that's Just a standard view, so there're many options available for you to usurp. :D


Baumbass You have nailed it. That's the best advice you can get from this forum I think
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Postby Monifé » Sat Sep 24, 2011 12:33 pm

Baumbass wrote:First and foremost, your potential husband or husband was transfer to Great Britain Under Dublin Convention on the basis of European Immigration protocol Which made it mandamus that, any asylum seeker Or refugee with temporary resident certificate card running From danger Or otherwise must seek such protect from the first country He/she landed, So your husband was not ''Deported''.

However, if he's recognize by the border agency of Britain per his Presence, you can book a marriage in Britain by seeking permission from The secretary of state home office, and if you're lucky the marriage Licence Will be granted, and if refuse their is always room for judicial Review Anyway, if you have the money and energy.

But the most stress free of all like, is to go back to your husband country And do it, but alternatively, you did mentioned aforesaid that, you have Done a religion marriage and if so, and if you have procure a certificate to Authenticate that, or evidence that, the exclusion of other's has taken Place you could file for his re-unification at INIS, Which form part of your Legitimate expectations, under European law as a spouse, which if he has A passport you can exercise that right immediately without ambiguity, Which is the best option of all, hope these few explanation help, i don't Want to start quoting what section or subsection of the law apply but that's Just a standard view, so there're many options available for you to usurp. :D


You do not need to get permission from the UK home office to marry. COA was abolished in May of this year. Travel over to the UK, book an appointment with the registrar and get married. UKBA immigration officials may come to the wedding and interview both of you but they cannot stop you from marrying, bar arresting your husband and detaining him. But once you are in the UK, you are in Irish national exercising your right of free movement. You and your husband have an unconditional right to stay in the UK for the first 3 months with no conditions under EU law. After you are married, you will apply for a residence card on the basis of your marriage. After the first 3 months of you being in the UK, you will need to exercise your treaty rights. You can do this by getting a job, studying (with private health insurance and sufficient funds for both of you) or by being self-employed. You could remain in the UK or you could apply for a visa for your husband to enter Ireland.

If you stay in the UK working, for a period of no less than 6 months, you can then return to Ireland using the Surinder Singh case. With this, you will be able to return to Ireland under EU law (which is much more favorable than Irish national law) and would be entitled to have your husband with you.
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Postby Baumbass » Sat Sep 24, 2011 9:53 pm

Monifé wrote:
Baumbass wrote:First and foremost, your potential husband or husband was transfer to Great Britain Under Dublin Convention on the basis of European Immigration protocol Which made it mandamus that, any asylum seeker Or refugee with temporary resident certificate card running From danger Or otherwise must seek such protect from the first country He/she landed, So your husband was not ''Deported''.

However, if he's recognize by the border agency of Britain per his Presence, you can book a marriage in Britain by seeking permission from The secretary of state home office, and if you're lucky the marriage Licence Will be granted, and if refuse their is always room for judicial Review Anyway, if you have the money and energy.

But the most stress free of all like, is to go back to your husband country And do it, but alternatively, you did mentioned aforesaid that, you have Done a religion marriage and if so, and if you have procure a certificate to Authenticate that, or evidence that, the exclusion of other's has taken Place you could file for his re-unification at INIS, Which form part of your Legitimate expectations, under European law as a spouse, which if he has A passport you can exercise that right immediately without ambiguity, Which is the best option of all, hope these few explanation help, i don't Want to start quoting what section or subsection of the law apply but that's Just a standard view, so there're many options available for you to usurp. :D


You do not need to get permission from the UK home office to marry. COA was abolished in May of this year. Travel over to the UK, book an appointment with the registrar and get married. UKBA immigration officials may come to the wedding and interview both of you but they cannot stop you from marrying, bar arresting your husband and detaining him. But once you are in the UK, you are in Irish national exercising your right of free movement. You and your husband have an unconditional right to stay in the UK for the first 3 months with no conditions under EU law. After you are married, you will apply for a residence card on the basis of your marriage. After the first 3 months of you being in the UK, you will need to exercise your treaty rights. You can do this by getting a job, studying (with private health insurance and sufficient funds for both of you) or by being self-employed. You could remain in the UK or you could apply for a visa for your husband to enter Ireland.

If you stay in the UK working, for a period of no less than 6 months, you can then return to Ireland using the Surinder Singh case. With this, you will be able to return to Ireland under EU law (which is much more favorable than Irish national law) and would be entitled to have your husband with you.


I have explained there're many option available but they've already married in religous ways so your advise per opening up a new marriage is ultra-vires in nature, following or since the internationale Handelsgesellschaft case in the European court of human right which has been indicated that EU fundamental right law is to be interpreted according to an authonomous reasoning with the meaning of particular rights determined in the light of ''border union objective''. :D
Don't give up the fight.
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Postby Monifé » Sat Sep 24, 2011 10:36 pm

Baumbass wrote:
Monifé wrote:
Baumbass wrote:First and foremost, your potential husband or husband was transfer to Great Britain Under Dublin Convention on the basis of European Immigration protocol Which made it mandamus that, any asylum seeker Or refugee with temporary resident certificate card running From danger Or otherwise must seek such protect from the first country He/she landed, So your husband was not ''Deported''.

However, if he's recognize by the border agency of Britain per his Presence, you can book a marriage in Britain by seeking permission from The secretary of state home office, and if you're lucky the marriage Licence Will be granted, and if refuse their is always room for judicial Review Anyway, if you have the money and energy.

But the most stress free of all like, is to go back to your husband country And do it, but alternatively, you did mentioned aforesaid that, you have Done a religion marriage and if so, and if you have procure a certificate to Authenticate that, or evidence that, the exclusion of other's has taken Place you could file for his re-unification at INIS, Which form part of your Legitimate expectations, under European law as a spouse, which if he has A passport you can exercise that right immediately without ambiguity, Which is the best option of all, hope these few explanation help, i don't Want to start quoting what section or subsection of the law apply but that's Just a standard view, so there're many options available for you to usurp. :D


You do not need to get permission from the UK home office to marry. COA was abolished in May of this year. Travel over to the UK, book an appointment with the registrar and get married. UKBA immigration officials may come to the wedding and interview both of you but they cannot stop you from marrying, bar arresting your husband and detaining him. But once you are in the UK, you are in Irish national exercising your right of free movement. You and your husband have an unconditional right to stay in the UK for the first 3 months with no conditions under EU law. After you are married, you will apply for a residence card on the basis of your marriage. After the first 3 months of you being in the UK, you will need to exercise your treaty rights. You can do this by getting a job, studying (with private health insurance and sufficient funds for both of you) or by being self-employed. You could remain in the UK or you could apply for a visa for your husband to enter Ireland.

If you stay in the UK working, for a period of no less than 6 months, you can then return to Ireland using the Surinder Singh case. With this, you will be able to return to Ireland under EU law (which is much more favorable than Irish national law) and would be entitled to have your husband with you.


I have explained there're many option available but they've already married in religous ways so your advise per opening up a new marriage is ultra-vires in nature, following or since the internationale Handelsgesellschaft case in the European court of human right which has been indicated that EU fundamental right law is to be interpreted according to an authonomous reasoning with the meaning of particular rights determined in the light of ''border union objective''. :D


Oh angelcountry, how we have missed you. You are talking absolute cr*p. They are only married in a religious way, they still need to marry in a civil way for it to be recognised.

OP, disregard anything "baumbass" says. It is not correct nor helpful advice.
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Postby Baumbass » Sat Sep 24, 2011 10:55 pm

Monifé wrote:
Baumbass wrote:
Monifé wrote:
Baumbass wrote:First and foremost, your potential husband or husband was transfer to Great Britain Under Dublin Convention on the basis of European Immigration protocol Which made it mandamus that, any asylum seeker Or refugee with temporary resident certificate card running From danger Or otherwise must seek such protect from the first country He/she landed, So your husband was not ''Deported''.

However, if he's recognize by the border agency of Britain per his Presence, you can book a marriage in Britain by seeking permission from The secretary of state home office, and if you're lucky the marriage Licence Will be granted, and if refuse their is always room for judicial Review Anyway, if you have the money and energy.

But the most stress free of all like, is to go back to your husband country And do it, but alternatively, you did mentioned aforesaid that, you have Done a religion marriage and if so, and if you have procure a certificate to Authenticate that, or evidence that, the exclusion of other's has taken Place you could file for his re-unification at INIS, Which form part of your Legitimate expectations, under European law as a spouse, which if he has A passport you can exercise that right immediately without ambiguity, Which is the best option of all, hope these few explanation help, i don't Want to start quoting what section or subsection of the law apply but that's Just a standard view, so there're many options available for you to usurp. :D


You do not need to get permission from the UK home office to marry. COA was abolished in May of this year. Travel over to the UK, book an appointment with the registrar and get married. UKBA immigration officials may come to the wedding and interview both of you but they cannot stop you from marrying, bar arresting your husband and detaining him. But once you are in the UK, you are in Irish national exercising your right of free movement. You and your husband have an unconditional right to stay in the UK for the first 3 months with no conditions under EU law. After you are married, you will apply for a residence card on the basis of your marriage. After the first 3 months of you being in the UK, you will need to exercise your treaty rights. You can do this by getting a job, studying (with private health insurance and sufficient funds for both of you) or by being self-employed. You could remain in the UK or you could apply for a visa for your husband to enter Ireland.

If you stay in the UK working, for a period of no less than 6 months, you can then return to Ireland using the Surinder Singh case. With this, you will be able to return to Ireland under EU law (which is much more favorable than Irish national law) and would be entitled to have your husband with you.


I have explained there're many option available but they've already married in religous ways so your advise per opening up a new marriage is ultra-vires in nature, following or since the internationale Handelsgesellschaft case in the European court of human right which has been indicated that EU fundamental right law is to be interpreted according to an authonomous reasoning with the meaning of particular rights determined in the light of ''border union objective''. :D


Oh angelcountry, how we have missed you. You are talking absolute cr*p. They are only married in a religious way, they still need to marry in a civil way for it to be recognised.

OP, disregard anything "baumbass" says. It is not correct nor helpful advice.


I have evidence of a person that got married in brixton masjid and is now even a British citizen with any court or civil marriage to that effect.
However, what about people getting married in catholic churches and usurping immigration status with it, any defense or counter claims ?
Is best you don't give and advise of what you feel and not what the law, procedure or the system takes. hope that help a bit. :lol:
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Postby Monifé » Sat Sep 24, 2011 11:25 pm

Baumbass wrote:I have evidence of a person that got married in brixton masjid and is now even a British citizen with any court or civil marriage to that effect.
However, what about people getting married in catholic churches and usurping immigration status with it, any defense or counter claims ?
Is best you don't give and advise of what you feel and not what the law, procedure or the system takes. hope that help a bit. :lol:


People who get married in Irish Catholic churches, still have to have civil registration, otherwise the marriage is not recognised by law. You obviously have little knowledge of Irish law, or any law for that matter. You just spout random legal words, which you probably got online or from a dictionary, to make it sound like you know what you are talking about. But instead, you actually make yourself look more and more idiotic the more you go on.
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Postby IQU » Sat Sep 24, 2011 11:58 pm

so far my knowledge,if you are religious married it is fine.marriage is marriage end of the day.but for legally purpuse you have to register you marriage with civil aurthroties.my friend got marriage in his own country.but marriage certificate from churuch/mosque/temple is not only valid.you have to register your marriage with civil authroty?so far my knowedlge monife is right.
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Postby Baumbass » Sun Sep 25, 2011 12:27 am

Monifé wrote:
Baumbass wrote:I have evidence of a person that got married in brixton masjid and is now even a British citizen with any court or civil marriage to that effect.
However, what about people getting married in catholic churches and usurping immigration status with it, any defense or counter claims ?
Is best you don't give and advise of what you feel and not what the law, procedure or the system takes. hope that help a bit. :lol:


People who get married in Irish Catholic churches, still have to have civil registration, otherwise the marriage is not recognised by law. You obviously have little knowledge of Irish law, or any law for that matter. You just spout random legal words, which you probably got online or from a dictionary, to make it sound like you know what you are talking about. But instead, you actually make yourself look more and more idiotic the more you go on.


It shows how ignorant you are, and how quick you can get agitating when you're challenged, that person seeks an advise and i gave her what i know, then you started coming on me because of your dominant attitudes, which lack the ability of retrocessions, when i quote, you must know it's from case law and when i wrote, it's from law book, so figure the rest out for yourself and stop being self-centered and dominant for what ?
Having said all that, i said they're already married, now who are the authority to registers their religion marriage with as Muslims ?
It's the INIS, no more no less, please let go off me, and don't try to dominate this site is based on collective responsibility. Hope that will help you to adjust your ways on this website.
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Postby anna1 » Sun Sep 25, 2011 1:22 am

Firstly, thank you for your replies, I very much appreciate it.

just a few more questions:
I am studying here in ireland with 4 more years of a 5 year degree to do, which means there is no way i can go and live in the uk after marrying. We have been living together for the last 3 months in the uk, if that makes any difference?

My partner is living in scotland, it would be the most convienant place to marry legally - is there any risk after submitting our intention to marry notice that immigration would come and arrest him, as the form outlines full name, nationality, and address? He is working under a false identity, so does he leave occupation blank?

is there any way we can get married and apply for a residence card without me having to live in the uk? or any way of getting residence in ireland as husband and wife? Its simply impossible for me to be able to spend the 6 months in the uk to get into ireland together under the surrinder singh case?

thanks for all your help once again,
Anna
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Postby Monifé » Sun Sep 25, 2011 10:27 am

anna1 wrote:Firstly, thank you for your replies, I very much appreciate it.

just a few more questions:
I am studying here in ireland with 4 more years of a 5 year degree to do, which means there is no way i can go and live in the uk after marrying. We have been living together for the last 3 months in the uk, if that makes any difference?

My partner is living in scotland, it would be the most convienant place to marry legally - is there any risk after submitting our intention to marry notice that immigration would come and arrest him, as the form outlines full name, nationality, and address? He is working under a false identity, so does he leave occupation blank?

is there any way we can get married and apply for a residence card without me having to live in the uk? or any way of getting residence in ireland as husband and wife? Its simply impossible for me to be able to spend the 6 months in the uk to get into ireland together under the surrinder singh case?

thanks for all your help once again,
Anna


While you have been living in UK for the last 3 months, your partner is legal in the country under EU law on the basis of his partnership to you. After the 3 months, you need to be either studying in UK or registered as a jobseeker for him to remain legal under EU law. You can submit your notification to marry but there is a risk immigration officers will show to the wedding. It is just a risk that you will have to take unless you want to return to his home country and marry there.

He should leave the occupation blank.

The only option open to you if you cannot live in the UK working for 6 months, is to get married and then apply for a spouse visa to Ireland from the Irish Embassy in the UK. You will need extensive evidence that your relationship is genuine and it is still not a sure fire way of getting him to Ireland as you will be under the scope of Irish National law and marriage to an Irish national does not confer automatic rights to live in Ireland. It is at the discretion of the minister.
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Postby Monifé » Sun Sep 25, 2011 10:29 am

Also, you will need to have sufficient funds to support both of you and not to be a burden on the State. If the Minister for Justice believes you will need to rely on social welfare or public funds to support both of you, he will refuse the application.
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Postby anna1 » Sun Sep 25, 2011 6:17 pm

Thankyou again for your information, monife - if he travells to ireland and we apply from here and get married here (dublin), would it make things any easier?

Anna
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Postby Monifé » Sun Sep 25, 2011 7:18 pm

anna1 wrote:Thankyou again for your information, monife - if he travells to ireland and we apply from here and get married here (dublin), would it make things any easier?

Anna


No, it certainly will not make things easier. It might actually make things harder since he was deported from Ireland. I just married my husband a bit less than a month ago, and he too is a failed asylum seeker. We tried to go through the EU treaty rights process last year as partners because I am entitled to British citizenship too (you can only avail of EU law if you are an EU national in a country other than that of which you are a national) but it failed because I am an Irish citizen and have never lived in any other EU country, and we went through a judicial review process but had to withdraw from that case due to developments in a similar case to ours.

I am going off the point now, but anyway, an immigration officer showed up to our wedding. Because my partner was still in the asylum process (has applied for humanitarian leave to remain), he was not detained but his passport was confiscated.

I think the best option open to you, is to apply to marry in the UK. If in the unfortunate event, that an immigration officer shows up and detains your husband and deports him to his own country (this may not happen at all), you could fly to his country and marry him there. Then return to Ireland and get him to apply for a spouse visa to Ireland from the Irish embassy in his country. Also, once married, you can apply to have the deportation order revoked (due to your marriage). This should be done before you apply for the spouse visa. That will then lift the immigration ban.

I would recommend seeing a solicitor (as your case is a bit complex), even if it is just for a consultation which is approximately €100. You could also contact the Immigrant Council in Ireland.
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Postby ImmigrationLawyer » Mon Sep 26, 2011 8:55 am

Monife's advice is correct, imo. However I think she had particularly bad luck with the Marriage Registrar - many other people int his situation manage to marry without the registrar objecting. OP - marriage in UK then Irish visa application is probably the most practical route forward. Bear in mind you will have to carefully prove with documentary evidence your whole relationship history.
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Postby Van Da Loos » Mon Sep 26, 2011 9:13 am

But you said in the first question that, you have already married in muslim ways with certificate, i dont think you can opened up another marriage again rather than file for the family re-unification by present your islamic marriage with a form by ringing the family re-unification section of INIS, and wait for your faith, hope that helps, coz i don't see more substances up on all the advise than longing your desires to be with your husband, the only advise more elaborated was from baumbass.

And i hope you will be with your husband very soon, all the best. :lol:
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Postby ImmigrationLawyer » Mon Sep 26, 2011 9:22 am

The OP has not legally married, she has only performed a religious ceremony which is not legally binding. She can try to apply for a join spouse visa with the religious marriage only but a civil marriage will be much stronger. "Family reunification" in Ireland is only available for those granted refugee status or subsidiary protection.
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Postby fatty patty » Mon Sep 26, 2011 10:35 am

Problem with religious marriages is that they have to be registered with the Registrar of Birth/Death/Marriages. For e.g. Catholic marriages, muslim marriages, jewish marriages etc (unlike the marriages done in registry office b/w interfaith and others). In Ireland religious marriages are acceptable but only if it is done by registered person in the OP's case. But the problem is that if it is just a religious wedding where there was no HSE authorized priest/scholar then registering is futile. If you are married at the major mosques in dublin/cork then you have chance of registering that marriage with the registrar. Also the problem is the failed asylum case of the person which will make it more difficult. To be honest best suggestions you have here are from monife, immlawyer. But i personally suggest you consult immigration solicitor for more clarification on all the above matter and also to Islamic Council here speaking about legalizing/registering that marriage yous have and other avenues mentioned here.
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Postby Monifé » Mon Sep 26, 2011 3:11 pm

ImmigrationLawyer wrote:Monife's advice is correct, imo. However I think she had particularly bad luck with the Marriage Registrar - many other people int his situation manage to marry without the registrar objecting. OP - marriage in UK then Irish visa application is probably the most practical route forward. Bear in mind you will have to carefully prove with documentary evidence your whole relationship history.


Bad luck should be my middle name :D Although the Immigration Officer did say that he shows up to all non-EU marriages and that we were not specifically targetted. Whether that is true or not, I don't know. The marriage registrar was actually really nice and was helping us and afterwards said that it was terrible for him to show up on our wedding day. Hopefully my good luck starts from now :)
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