Required documents to show dependency of non eea national

Hi,

My guess was right. You started by asking about a visa application for your parent (as an eu citizen). You should be very specific about terminology in dealing with Eu cases.

Your parent want a EU FAMILY PERMIT to Ireland, not a visa. Also, the omission of lawful residence was not an accident but a decision of the ECJ metock case. So you need to directly seek the answer using these facts.

I see the officer have offered 2 apologies already. If you write to them categorically stating the above facts and asking if he still says it is invalid?

You may be well due for another apology.

Xbox

You should also give him link to the amended version of the SI 656 I gave you. Unlike in some visa applications, it is not the officers responsibilty to tell you your rights. It is up to you to find them, present them, and if refused you take legal action.

I'll say send the final letter asking for the name of the person giving you the information, and be specific.

Xbox

Hi xbox

could you please check following email before i can send it to embassy,

Dear Sir

Further to our last email Please let me reiterate my questions again and if you could simply answer my questions in simple yes or no. I need this information in order to make a complaint to solvit.

Application Type
Just to clarify, my mother wants an EU Family Permit as a qualifying family of EU citizen and not a visa. She is a non EEA national and is dependent on me. I am British (EU) citizen. This application is based on EU law (Directive 2004/38/EC).
Questions
1. Can she apply from London office while she is in UK on a Visitor Visa (C Type)? Please remember she would like to apply for EU Family Permit.
2. Omission of lawful residence
a. The omission of lawful residence was not an accident but a decision of ECJ Metock case. Link is http://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/Lex ... 27:EN:HTML
b. The residence requirement was removed by a statutory instrument SI No 310 of 2008. The source is http://www.inis.gov.ie/en/INIS/SI%20310 ... 202008.pdf
If you are still asking for lawful residence requirement aren’t you acting against SI No 310 of 2008 legislation mentioned above?

3. You mentioned that not all requirements are set down in legislation. I would like to know if this is your own impression of the EU legislation, or is it that of the Minister for Justice?

I hope I have presented my questions clearly.

I would be really grateful if you could answer my question as I need this information to make a formal complaint to solvit.

Regards

Looks nice. You may want to add that: can the response be followed by the name of the person attending to the email, so that You can be very specific with the source of the information.

Xbox360 wrote:Looks nice. You may want to add that: can the response be followed by the name of the person attending to the email, so that You can be very specific with the source of the information.

Thanks mate. I will add this sentence.

Will update you guys.

Xbox360 wrote:Looks nice. You may want to add that: can the response be followed by the name of the person attending to the email, so that You can be very specific with the source of the information.

Xbox360,

I MUST commend your deep knowledge and understanding of the EU directives and laws governing free movement of EU family members. I couldnt have done a better job myself!

I am always happy whenever I see good knowledge, rather than shallow suggestions made by some folks on this forum.

Once again, thank you

And jinkazama_11,

Do let us know as things progresses.

All the best of luck!

Hi,

Its nice to be able to be of help. Regarding Ireland, I see that there is no formal application form for EU Permit on its website. an Eu citizen should never allow their dependent family family member to apply for a VISA to Ireland. If you do this, they will claim that you chose to go by the immigration route since there is a policy that your family don't need a VISA to accompany you to Ireland.

See the statement in :

http://www.inis.gov.ie/en/INIS/SINo417. ... INo417.pdf

The statement 'non-nationals who are family members of a Union citizen and holders of a document called “Residence card of a family member of a Union citizen”, as referred to in Article 10 of the Directive of 2004',

was probably left complex to allow it to be interpreted differently by staff. however, it actually means a family member, with or without residence card should be allowed grammatically.

Notwithstanding this. It does not stop an applicant from applying specifically for an eu permit, With only the required documents. Best of all, if you can enter Ireland through Belfast, you will have a right to enter with your family member without eu permit.

However, it is still best to hear the officer respond to your written request with a yes or no answer after you have presented your full rights. By this way, its easy to claim compensation from them whenever you eventually win any court battles, and you can alert Eu authorities. Because few people actually come to Ireland these days, so they have not been challenged on their policy.

Xbox.

hi !

Just a correction to my last post as I got some facts mixed up. unfortunately, I am more aware of the process in the uk and some other eu countries than in Ireland. But the facts remain the same. This is what the directive says:

Right of entry
1. Without prejudice to the provisions on travel documents applicable to national border controls, Member States shall grant Union citizens leave to enter their territory with a valid identity card or passport and shall grant family members who are not nationals of a Member State leave to enter their terri- tory with a valid passport.
No entry visa or equivalent formality may be imposed on Union citizens.
2. Family members who are not nationals of a Member State shall only be required to have an entry visa in accordance with Regulation (EC) No 539/2001 or, where appropriate, with national law. For the purposes of this Directive, possession of the valid residence card referred to in Article 10 shall exempt such family members from the visa requirement.
Member States shall grant such persons every facility to obtain the necessary visas. Such visas shall be issued free of charge as soon as possible and on the basis of an accelerated procedure.....Source EU DIRETIVE ON FREE MOVEMENT.

My explaination:

Thus while a member state may still choose to call an Eu entry permission a 'Visa', it is not in the same terms as a visa for other non eu nationals. It is best called a visa under Eu law, to differentiate it from the national provisions. A cover letter explaining this have to follow any application of this type, to give it effect. Ireland has no such facility to accomodate eu entry permissions by a separate application form.

Also, any visa issued to eu family members may not be any worse than that obtained by national legislation. It has to comply with Eu exemptions such as no lawful residence, and only a proof of relationship as specified in Eu directive. It is best to always state this in a separate letter.

Thus it may be appropriate for Ireland to issue 3 months special visa under eu law, using eu terms( they have not however said that in their website, they don't have to, as it is your right).

I would say the letter written by J is still okay the way it is, and don't require any change. If the officer says our mum has NO right to apply, it is against EU Law. I anticipate he will apologise again, or may not respond for fear of complaint.

It's along time I studied these laws for certain countries and will have to review them again to ensure the information is as accurate as possible.

Xbox.

Lets see what sort of response I will get.
If he says she has no right to apply, what is the best way to challenge this? Do I just have to go to solvit website and complain using the online form.

I will use second option and will travel to Ireland through Belfast, but i wont do it straight away. I am collecting all the evidence that she is dependent on me in the UK and then travel to Ireland otherwise it would be difficult for me to prove the dependency in Ireland.

Finding a job would be another challenge.

Hi J,

To be more informed, you can read about this case:


http://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/Lex ... 59:en:HTML


Xbox.

update

xbox
First of all thank you so much for all your help.

I have received the response from Irish embassy and they have allowed me to submit my mother's application in London office.

Thank you so much for your help.
I will update you once I submit her application.

Hello mate,

Great news indeed!

I am also in the same boat so quite happy! Plz see my post below.

http://www.immigrationboards.com/viewto ... 332#886332

Do you think I should also correspond with them to get a pre-approval allowing me to make an application?

jinkazama_11 wrote:update

xbox
First of all thank you so much for all your help.

I have received the response from Irish embassy and they have allowed me to submit my mother's application in London office.

Thank you so much for your help.
I will update you once I submit her application.

nahmed wrote:Hello mate,

Great news indeed!

I am also in the same boat so quite happy! Plz see my post below.

http://www.immigrationboards.com/viewto ... 332#886332

Do you think I should also correspond with them to get a pre-approval allowing me to make an application?

jinkazama_11 wrote:update

xbox
First of all thank you so much for all your help.

I have received the response from Irish embassy and they have allowed me to submit my mother's application in London office.

Thank you so much for your help.
I will update you once I submit her application.

I think you should ask them once your mother is with you in the UK. Also mention that your mother is dependant on you because of medical reasons and unable to go back to Pakistan to apply from there.

Could you please give me some tips on job hunting. I think you manage to find a job already in Ireland. any tips would be helpful to me.

Thanks

Job hunt aint that easy anywhere these days man. What is your field of expertise and experience?

jinkazama_11 wrote:

nahmed wrote:Hello mate,

Great news indeed!

I am also in the same boat so quite happy! Plz see my post below.

http://www.immigrationboards.com/viewto ... 332#886332

Do you think I should also correspond with them to get a pre-approval allowing me to make an application?

jinkazama_11 wrote:update

xbox
First of all thank you so much for all your help.

I have received the response from Irish embassy and they have allowed me to submit my mother's application in London office.

Thank you so much for your help.
I will update you once I submit her application.

I think you should ask them once your mother is with you in the UK. Also mention that your mother is dependant on you because of medical reasons and unable to go back to Pakistan to apply from there.

Could you please give me some tips on job hunting. I think you manage to find a job already in Ireland. any tips would be helpful to me.

Thanks

nahmed wrote:Job hunt aint that easy anywhere these days man. What is your field of expertise and experience?

jinkazama_11 wrote:

nahmed wrote:Hello mate,

Great news indeed!

I am also in the same boat so quite happy! Plz see my post below.

http://www.immigrationboards.com/viewto ... 332#886332

Do you think I should also correspond with them to get a pre-approval allowing me to make an application?

jinkazama_11 wrote:update

xbox
First of all thank you so much for all your help.

I have received the response from Irish embassy and they have allowed me to submit my mother's application in London office.

Thank you so much for your help.
I will update you once I submit her application.

I think you should ask them once your mother is with you in the UK. Also mention that your mother is dependant on you because of medical reasons and unable to go back to Pakistan to apply from there.

Could you please give me some tips on job hunting. I think you manage to find a job already in Ireland. any tips would be helpful to me.

Thanks

IT - Data warehouse and BI developement using SQL Server 2008 R2/SSIS/SSRS

Hi J,

I'm glad it worked. I do take a lot of interest in straight forward cases like yours.

Congrats.

Xbox

Yours is a specialist field my friend and I am sure you will be alright to find something pretty soon. Depending on how long you wish to stay in Ireland, a suggestion might be for you to target the contracting market which is relatively easier to find than a permanent/employed position. Register with recruitment agencies asap obviously, which you could even start now while you are still in the UK.

Paperwork wise, contracting might not be ideal as compared to a permanent/temporary employed job. However, you could perhaps use the services of an umbrella company or even ask the agency to put you through their payroll. Both these options will prepare you via the employed route as compared to self-employed route where paperwork is relatively harder to prepare.

jinkazama_11 wrote:

nahmed wrote:Job hunt aint that easy anywhere these days man. What is your field of expertise and experience?

jinkazama_11 wrote:

nahmed wrote:Hello mate,

Great news indeed!

I am also in the same boat so quite happy! Plz see my post below.

http://www.immigrationboards.com/viewto ... 332#886332

Do you think I should also correspond with them to get a pre-approval allowing me to make an application?

I think you should ask them once your mother is with you in the UK. Also mention that your mother is dependant on you because of medical reasons and unable to go back to Pakistan to apply from there.

Could you please give me some tips on job hunting. I think you manage to find a job already in Ireland. any tips would be helpful to me.

Thanks

IT - Data warehouse and BI developement using SQL Server 2008 R2/SSIS/SSRS

xbos - Thank you very much mate, its all coz of your guidance. I will apply as
soon as I get my documents from Pakistan.

nahmed - I am looking for both contract and permanent positions. My notice period for current job in the UK is 2 months making it hard for me to get a contract position asap.
I hope my mom will get a visa and I can find something while I am in the Ireland.

Hi J,

What type of visa did you apply for your mother to get into Ireland please?

Thanks