Extension: Employing on 40h per week basis?

Hi everyone,

Tricky question.

There was recently a change for the extension applicants. Those who applied and were granted T1E before april 2014 (like myself) still qualify for previous extension rules and employment creation.

Now, this is the question:

I am looking to employ a 1st person on full time, based on 40h per week, for one year.
Policy states that 30h week is full time. So, that is 1,560ht a year? And, logically, 3,120 total hours needed for 2 people?
At 40h per week, we will get 2,080 hours a year.

Is that correct to count employment hours and not months or weeks for extension purposes?

Also, if I employ someone for 1 full year at 40h per year and then someone else to add up to 3,120 hours (1 person at 40h per week for 1/2 year which will exactly make another 1,040 needed hours), will it be correct for my situation?

In policy they give examples (for us earlier 2013 applicants) of mixture of employing part-timers, 4 people for 6 months each etc. to mix and match so to say.

Please advice what you think as it is very important at this time?

Many thanks

SR

@ sky_rise, the employment mixture is only applicable to duration and not hours as per your plan.

HO has stipulate 30hrs pw minimum for full-time employment, if you decide to employ a full-time staff 1 on 40hrs pw then the extra 10hrs pw for that particular staff 1 cannot be added to another part-time staff 2 weekly hours of say 15hrs.
You can simply employ another part-time staff 3 and give the extra 10hrs pw from staff 1 with another 5hrs pw to make 15hrs on part-time basis.

Olasunkanmi wrote:@ sky_rise, the employment mixture is only applicable to duration and not hours as per your plan.

HO has stipulate 30hrs pw minimum for full-time employment, if you decide to employ a full-time staff 1 on 40hrs pw then the extra 10hrs pw for that particular staff 1 cannot be added to another part-time staff 2 weekly hours of say 15hrs.
You can simply employ another part-time staff 3 and give the extra 10hrs pw from staff 1 with another 5hrs pw to make 15hrs on part-time basis.

Hi, many thanks for your opinion.

Actually, in the guidance they state that they would be calculating hours based on the salary that you pay and hours that you stated. There is no clear confirmation whether or not you should count total hours and not total months etc. Right?

@ sky_rise, I think the reason why they stated that they will be calculating hrs is to make sure applicants employ someone on at least 30hrs pw in order to qualify for full-time employment rather than someone just paying a particular amount to staff and then claiming it to be full-time when in-fact the per hr rate might be less than the minimum wage.

Olasunkanmi wrote:@ sky_rise, I think the reason why they stated that they will be calculating hrs is to make sure applicants employ someone on at least 30hrs pw in order to qualify for full-time employment rather than someone just paying a particular amount to staff and then claiming it to be full-time when in-fact the per hr rate might be less than the minimum wage.

I dis-agree, HO has only stated about the hours for previous applicants. As long as we are paying minimum wage, we should be fine I believe. I even spoke to a few solicitors and accountants regarding the same, and that's what they've confirmed.

That is precisely why, in the new guidance they state that part-time worker's hours cannot be added up.

To further proof:-

The extension application is available here ( https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/s ... _07-14.pdf )


I'd like to pull your attention to requirement 'R'... the most important word being 'AGGREGATE'.

Kindly provide some insight..

@sky_rise

I knew someone would eventually raise this point. Here is my 2p below.

Any extra time over 30 hours per SINGLE PERSON can not be counted towards the total time. As per your logic, if you employ a person for let's say 60 hours per week for 12 months, then that should suffice the total hours equivalent of employing 2 people working 30 hours per week for 12 months. BUT, according to UKBA the extra 30 hours will not be counted towards the extension UNLESS it is done by a second person.

Check point 49 on page 37 of 109 of Immigration Rules: Appendix A MASTER

49. A full time job is one involving at least 30 hours of work a week. Two or more part time jobs that add up to 30 hours a week will count as one full time job but one full time job of more than 30 hours work a week will not count as more than one full time job.

One should carefully read all the referenced documents listed in the guidance here and there. The guidance is too brief to cover all rules and regulations. If you base your understanding just on the guidance, you will suffer when you apply for extension.

Yes, you can still mix part-time workers, but the mixing is allowed as long as each individual's weekly contribution is less than 30 hours!

The entire reason / logic behind point 49 stated above is that the government wants two or more different persons to earn money to feed their families instead of one person/family. That's the basis of employment creation and distribution of wealth. Common Sense my friend.

attahaas wrote:@sky_rise
The entire reason / logic behind point 49 stated above is that the government wants two or more different persons to earn money to feed their families instead of one person/family. That's the basis of employment creation and distribution of wealth. Common Sense my friend.

But one person employed for two years at 30 hours a week is counted as two employees right?

MTZ510 wrote:

attahaas wrote:@sky_rise
The entire reason / logic behind point 49 stated above is that the government wants two or more different persons to earn money to feed their families instead of one person/family. That's the basis of employment creation and distribution of wealth. Common Sense my friend.

But one person employed for two years at 30 hours a week is counted as two employees right?

Yes, I agree it may sound controversial but here at least you are making sure the employment lasts for double the time and there by financial security for that person/family for a longer period of time. However that is valid for applicants who have established their businesses before the 11th of July, 2014.

And the UKBA seems to have realised this controversy and updated the guidance, July 2014, to make it clear that it has to be TWO SEPARATE INDIVIDUALS for 12 months and NOT one individual for 24 months.

However, it still exists for the accelerated route for ILR. The lenience could be understood because the entrepreneur has to really work hard to create equivalent of 10 full-time jobs and hence UKBA still is considering giving the guy a break and not enforcing 10 separate full-time jobs.

attahaas wrote:@sky_rise

I knew someone would eventually raise this point. Here is my 2p below.

Any extra time over 30 hours per SINGLE PERSON can not be counted towards the total time. As per your logic, if you employ a person for let's say 60 hours per week for 12 months, then that should suffice the total hours equivalent of employing 2 people working 30 hours per week for 12 months. BUT, according to UKBA the extra 30 hours will not be counted towards the extension UNLESS it is done by a second person.

Check point 49 on page 37 of 109 of Immigration Rules: Appendix A MASTER

49. A full time job is one involving at least 30 hours of work a week. Two or more part time jobs that add up to 30 hours a week will count as one full time job but one full time job of more than 30 hours work a week will not count as more than one full time job.

One should carefully read all the referenced documents listed in the guidance here and there. The guidance is too brief to cover all rules and regulations. If you base your understanding just on the guidance, you will suffer when you apply for extension.

Yes, you can still mix part-time workers, but the mixing is allowed as long as each individual's weekly contribution is less than 30 hours!

The entire reason / logic behind point 49 stated above is that the government wants two or more different persons to earn money to feed their families instead of one person/family. That's the basis of employment creation and distribution of wealth. Common Sense my friend.

Hi and thanks for this valuable point.
However it seems to me that this applies to only applicants applying post April 2014 change. If this is the case, then it does not contradict and if you can employ (on previous policy) one person for 24months and be ok, surely you can increase his hours and employ for 16 months at 40h/pw, no?

Surely the safest option (no matter when you got your visa) is to create 2 full time jobs for 12months each.

attahaas wrote:

MTZ510 wrote:

attahaas wrote:@sky_rise
The entire reason / logic behind point 49 stated above is that the government wants two or more different persons to earn money to feed their families instead of one person/family. That's the basis of employment creation and distribution of wealth. Common Sense my friend.

But one person employed for two years at 30 hours a week is counted as two employees right?

Yes, I agree it may sound controversial but here at least you are making sure the employment lasts for double the time and there by financial security for that person/family for a longer period of time. However that is valid for applicants who have established their businesses before the 11th of July, 2014.

And the UKBA seems to have realised this controversy and updated the guidance, July 2014, to make it clear that it has to be TWO SEPARATE INDIVIDUALS for 12 months and NOT one individual for 24 months.

However, it still exists for the accelerated route for ILR. The lenience could be understood because the entrepreneur has to really work hard to create equivalent of 10 full-time jobs and hence UKBA still is considering giving the guy a break and not enforcing 10 separate full-time jobs.

For the accelerated route to ILR, is it fine to hire employees on 40 hour week? And count the hours instead of the months?

sky_rise wrote:Hi and thanks for this valuable point.
However it seems to me that this applies to only applicants applying post April 2014 change. If this is the case, then it does not contradict and if you can employ (on previous policy) one person for 24months and be ok, surely you can increase his hours and employ for 16 months at 40h/pw, no?

confused90 wrote:For the accelerated route to ILR, is it fine to hire employees on 40 hour week? And count the hours instead of the months?

Doesn't matter if you have applied this year or last year, or for accelerated ILR, the 30/week/person rule always holds good! Anything over it will simply not serve the purpose (unless there was a different definition for full-time earlier).

I think,

11th of July, 2014 new policy should not be mixed up with number of hours for one week. Because it will contradict again if someone was granted visa in 2013 and has not traded or done any business for two years instead started his/her first business in 2015. So he will be mixed up for part time hours combination or just keeping all the jobs full time (30 hrs).

What I understand, 30hrs for one year covers one job, even if you are paying for 40 hrs for one year, still it is one job.
Hence 30hrs or more for one year equals one job,
30hrs or more for for one year with two persons (gives 60hrs or more in one year) equals two jobs,
or 30hrs or more for one peson lasting two years equals two jobs.

Now we have to see accordingly the new policy of 11th of July, 2014 how everyone is affected. Still unclear how someone who has been granted in 2013 and starting business in 2015 (because he/she has not started business BEFORE 11th of July, 2014) will be affected. Will he/she can have EQUIVALENT/AGGREGATE hours or need to have FULL full time jobs (each person doing 30hrs/year alteast to make one job)?