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Ireland from India surinder Singh urgent help!!

Forum to discuss all things Blarney | Ireland immigration

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Kalpesh1987
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Ireland from India surinder Singh urgent help!!

Post by Kalpesh1987 » Sun Jun 01, 2014 9:38 pm

Hi I have read many many posts that give great advice on here and so decided that this is the place that would be able to answer my query..

Now I have done hundreds of hours of research into the surinder Singh route and in particular, moving to uk via ireland. These questions may seem basic but I am having trouble finding a definitive answer to them so I am hoping the gurus here can help me:

1. My wife is from India and we got married there last November. We have a uk spouse visa application pending but it's on hold due to financial requirements. Would i be able to request her passport back and try to start this surinder Singh route WHILE we wait for a decision on the outcome of the spouse visa??

2. Would my wife require a C or D visa? My intention is for her to stay with me for longer then the 3 months and I have read that under the C visa this isn't possible? Please correct me if I am wrong.

3. When arriving in ireland, do we need to go to the Garda straight away to register? Or do we have to go when the 90 days is almost up to renew?? Would they give another 90 days??

4. I have read that when applying for a residence card, it can take up to 6 months for them to process it. Would my wife be able to stay with me during this time??

My wife did apply for a tourist visa to the uk last year and was sent back when she arrived at heathrow because she did not have a return ticket and so they suspected she would overstay her visa. I just want to give her the peace of mind that once we are together she will not have to return after 3 months if everything goes smoothly.

I hope you guys can shed some light on these matters.

Kalpesh

357mag
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Re: Ireland from India surinder Singh urgent help!!

Post by 357mag » Sun Jun 01, 2014 10:40 pm

Kalpesh1987 wrote:Hi I have read many many posts that give great advice on here and so decided that this is the place that would be able to answer my query..

Now I have done hundreds of hours of research into the surinder Singh route and in particular, moving to uk via ireland. These questions may seem basic but I am having trouble finding a definitive answer to them so I am hoping the gurus here can help me:
You dont say what your nationality is
1. My wife is from India and we got married there last November. We have a uk spouse visa application pending but it's on hold due to financial requirements. Would i be able to request her passport back and try to start this surinder Singh route WHILE we wait for a decision on the outcome of the spouse visa??
You can ask for her passport back which will cancel the spouse visa application, but if you think you have a good case and can meet the requirement it might pay you to try to hold on
2. Would my wife require a C or D visa? My intention is for her to stay with me for longer then the 3 months and I have read that under the C visa this isn't possible? Please correct me if I am wrong.

3. When arriving in ireland, do we need to go to the Garda straight away to register? Or do we have to go when the 90 days is almost up to renew?? Would they give another 90 days??
When you get there you need evidence of accomodation, then go to get a PPS number, then go to Garda to register as a non EEA in the state, they give you GNIB card valid till your 90 days is up. As soon as you can meet the required evidence on EU1 you go again to Garda to apply for family permit, before the 90 days is up they give you GNIB card for another 6 months.

4. I have read that when applying for a residence card, it can take up to 6 months for them to process it. Would my wife be able to stay with me during this time??
Yes, if you go through the process and they issue family permit after 6 months you can use that for travelling as no visa required or you can stay in Ireland and get your Irish passport after 5 years.

My wife did apply for a tourist visa to the uk last year and was sent back when she arrived at heathrow because she did not have a return ticket and so they suspected she would overstay her visa. I just want to give her the peace of mind that once we are together she will not have to return after 3 months if everything goes smoothly.

I hope you guys can shed some light on these matters.

Kalpesh
(read my tag line)
I am not a forum GURU, I am often wrong
Dont take any notice of anything I post, I'm getting old and havn't the foggiest what I'm talking about.

Kalpesh1987
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Re: Ireland from India surinder Singh urgent help!!

Post by Kalpesh1987 » Sun Jun 01, 2014 11:33 pm

357mag thanks a lot for your reply.

I am a British citizen living in England. I understand that there are valid points to hold on but as I have been waiting almost half a year for the spouse visa to come and now hearing that if the court case goes against the Home Office they would most likely challenge it at the supreme courts, people are saying it could take up to 2 years. This is the sole reason I feel that if I could do something about this, surinder Singh route seems the best idea. But in your opinion (I don't know what experiance you have had in this) is it as easy as it sounds??
I mean I feel confident finding a job and if I can prove I have a job thus excercising my treaty rights, would this be enough in extending the 90 days to a further 6 months?
And last question, when should I apply for the residence card? Straight away or wait until they extend the visa for a further 6 months?

I appreciate your help..

357mag
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Re: Ireland from India surinder Singh urgent help!!

Post by 357mag » Mon Jun 02, 2014 10:25 am

Kalpesh1987 wrote:357mag thanks a lot for your reply.

I am a British citizen living in England. I understand that there are valid points to hold on but as I have been waiting almost half a year for the spouse visa to come and now hearing that if the court case goes against the Home Office they would most likely challenge it at the supreme courts, people are saying it could take up to 2 years. This is the sole reason I feel that if I could do something about this, surinder Singh route seems the best idea. But in your opinion (I don't know what experiance you have had in this) is it as easy as it sounds?? My tickets are booked for me to go 1st August, so all I can offer is from my own plans. I have been planning my trip for over 2 years. There have been people in the past who have done it in a very short time but it was made harder by UKBA with recent changes to the rules, these rules might have been changed due to case C-456/12 but nobody has been on this site and said they used this case
I mean I feel confident finding a job and if I can prove I have a job thus excercising my treaty rights, would this be enough in extending the 90 days to a further 6 months? Yes, you would need minimum of 10 hours a week for at least 12 weeks it seems. I am a disabled person and shall be trying to do it as self-sufficiant
And last question, when should I apply for the residence card? Straight away or wait until they extend the visa for a further 6 months? Your wife would have to apply for a GNIB card straight away as a non EEA in the country, this will be valid for the 90 days. Seems its a bit of messing about going backwards and forwards between the INIS office and the Garda office. Before the 90 is up you need to apply again for permission to stay longer than the 90 days, this is with the family permit application

I appreciate your help..
Your wife would have to use the online visa application form, and clearly state the visa is to join or acompany and EEA citizen.
https://www.visas.inis.gov.ie/avats/OnlineHome.aspx

http://www.inis.gov.ie/en/INIS/Pages/WP07000168
I am not a forum GURU, I am often wrong
Dont take any notice of anything I post, I'm getting old and havn't the foggiest what I'm talking about.

Kalpesh1987
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Re: Ireland from India surinder Singh urgent help!!

Post by Kalpesh1987 » Mon Jun 02, 2014 2:17 pm

Again, thanks for the help.

As we would be applying from India, I am assuming that we would only be able to extend this 90 days under a D visa? And under reason for stay should I put that we plan to settle and work there? As we are not only planning to stay for 3 months.

Kalpesh1987
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Re: Ireland from India surinder Singh urgent help!!

Post by Kalpesh1987 » Mon Jun 02, 2014 2:19 pm

Oh and one more question if you don't mind. Is there an amount that is needed to be classed as self sufficient? Seems very subjective..

357mag
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Re: Ireland from India surinder Singh urgent help!!

Post by 357mag » Mon Jun 02, 2014 2:50 pm

It doesnt really matter what the visa is. It used to be just enter under a visitor visa. The visa is just to enter the country, if you read the instructions its then up to the border control to issue the stamp for how long you can stay. After the 90 days you are under family permit application situation.
Self-suficient seems to be that you have more than the level that you could otherwise claim benefit.
My own situation is I have a benefit paid by UK, plus savings plus my partner should be able to work. If things go well we want to get married in Ireland and come back to UK using C-456/12 sometime after 3 months and having created and strengthened relationship.
Just praying that my partner gets the visa.
I am not a forum GURU, I am often wrong
Dont take any notice of anything I post, I'm getting old and havn't the foggiest what I'm talking about.

357mag
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Re: Ireland from India surinder Singh urgent help!!

Post by 357mag » Mon Jun 02, 2014 2:50 pm

From what I have been reading they now issue a D visa for join EEA visa anyway.
I am not a forum GURU, I am often wrong
Dont take any notice of anything I post, I'm getting old and havn't the foggiest what I'm talking about.

Kalpesh1987
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Re: Ireland from India surinder Singh urgent help!!

Post by Kalpesh1987 » Mon Jun 02, 2014 7:27 pm

Think positive and your partner will get her visa I'm sure. I wish you both the best of luck and hope everything goes smoothly. I'm thinking of flying out around end of July/beginning of August too. Will wait for the hopeful outcome of the court case until then.

I just hope I would be able to keep the spouse visa open on hold while taking this step, although I have doubts that they would allow me to do that..

357mag
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Re: Ireland from India surinder Singh urgent help!!

Post by 357mag » Mon Jun 02, 2014 7:55 pm

Dont forget there is a few weeks to wait for a visa for your wife, it should be 3 or 4 weeks but as she is in india it could take longer.
Something to consider is the surinder singh route is all about you, so you could go to Ireland a month or two before your wife and apply for her visa say end of september to come and join you. Or even join you after four months, that way you can delay asking for the passport back for a while longer. But as you have noted it could be a long time till they change the financial requirement.

Have you any plans on where to go?
Dublin seems very expensive so I am looking at Waterford, housing seems to be the hard bit of the plan, maybe we could team up again assuming I get visa.
I am not a forum GURU, I am often wrong
Dont take any notice of anything I post, I'm getting old and havn't the foggiest what I'm talking about.

Kalpesh1987
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Re: Ireland from India surinder Singh urgent help!!

Post by Kalpesh1987 » Tue Jun 03, 2014 7:15 am

Yeah I may just go a month or so before her but I have hard from a few sources that some sort of decision will be made my the end of June so just holding my breath.

Assuming you get a visa? I thought it was your partner that needed a visa? Where is she from? Maybe I am underestimating this visa but I thought it was relatively easy to obtain, like a visit visa, but now I feel I may be wrong..

357mag
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Re: Ireland from India surinder Singh urgent help!!

Post by 357mag » Tue Jun 03, 2014 7:48 am

Shes from Philippines but currently in UK with UK visa application failed. Yours should be easy because you are married, we are in durable relationship so more difficult.

Yes its her visa but its a bit of a grey area because its me execising my treaty rights.
I am not a forum GURU, I am often wrong
Dont take any notice of anything I post, I'm getting old and havn't the foggiest what I'm talking about.

Kalpesh1987
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Re: Ireland from India surinder Singh urgent help!!

Post by Kalpesh1987 » Tue Jun 03, 2014 1:55 pm

You mean she has had her uk spouse visa rejected? Shouldn't affect you to try the EU route I hope.

Another thing to pick your brain about (I thought I did heaps of research on this but obviously I know nothing compares to you haha): this long stay D visa., it says that it takes 8 weeks processing time? Is there the accelerated part on this visa too if we do the EU route? Some websites are saying 4 weeks but INIS are stating we should apply 8 weeks prior to travel.

And on the accommodation front, I was thinking of hotel for a week or so while we look for a place to rent but wouldn't we have to show a permanent residence at the immigration on landing in ireland??

357mag
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Re: Ireland from India surinder Singh urgent help!!

Post by 357mag » Tue Jun 03, 2014 5:46 pm

For spouse of EEA member visa it is supposed to be an accelerated process and free. It should be less than 4 weeks.
Mine is for a partner so they will take their time and charge a fee of £53, I see London embassy are saying up to 15 weeks for her visa. Shes has tried FLR(O) twice trying to use an old guy who is like a father to her and derivative rights for looking after an old lady all have failed.

This is EEA route so they should not ask you about anything other than for passport and marriage certificate, as well as proof that you are traveling together or joining which would need proof that you are in Ireland. For the family permit that comes later they ask about income etc.
I am not a forum GURU, I am often wrong
Dont take any notice of anything I post, I'm getting old and havn't the foggiest what I'm talking about.

Aliya
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Re: Ireland from India surinder Singh urgent help!!

Post by Aliya » Wed Jun 04, 2014 6:57 pm

Kalpesh1987 wrote: 2. Would my wife require a C or D visa? My intention is for her to stay with me for longer then the 3 months and I have read that under the C visa this isn't possible? Please correct me if I am wrong.
It's a C visa you apply for, even though your intention is to stay longer than 30 days. The information is all on the INIS website.

''Accompany / join EU citizen under Directive 2004/38/EC on the right of citizens of the Union and their family members to move to and reside freely within the territory of the Member States

Directive 2004/38 /EC (transposed into Irish law by European Communities (Free Movement of Persons) Regulations 2006 and 2008) applies only to EU citizens who move to or reside in a Member State other than that of which they are a national, and to their family members who accompany or join them. References to EU citizens include EEA citizens.

Basis of visa application
If you wish to have your visa application considered under the Directive on the basis that you are a family member of an EU citizen exercising or planning to exercise free movement rights you must state this clearly on your application. If you state that you wish to have your application considered on the basis of the Directive rather than under national law, and your application is refused, you will be offered the opportunity to apply under national law but the normal fee will apply.

Type of visa
In the event that you decide to have your visa application considered on the basis of the Directive and it is approved you will be issued with a single journey short-stay C visa which will permit you to enter and reside in the State for up to 3 months. In the event that you wish to remain in the State for more than 3 months as a family member of an EU citizen exercising their free movement rights, you must apply (when in the State) for a Residence Card of a family member of a Union citizen. ''


Then when you arrive and have secured somewhere to live and the EU national has found work within the 3 months, you apply for the residence card for 5 years for the non-EEA national on the EU1 form by post. Normally, you don't register with the Garda until you have sent off the EU1 form and you have received a reply telling you go to to the Garda from INIS. This reply allows you to get a temporary stamp 4 permission to live and work whilst they decide your application for 6 months, as the application for the residence card normally takes 6 months.

Kalpesh1987
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Re: Ireland from India surinder Singh urgent help!!

Post by Kalpesh1987 » Thu Jun 05, 2014 9:12 am

Aliya wrote:
Kalpesh1987 wrote: 2. Would my wife require a C or D visa? My intention is for her to stay with me for longer then the 3 months and I have read that under the C visa this isn't possible? Please correct me if I am wrong.
It's a C visa you apply for, even though your intention is to stay longer than 30 days. The information is all on the INIS website.

''Accompany / join EU citizen under Directive 2004/38/EC on the right of citizens of the Union and their family members to move to and reside freely within the territory of the Member States

Directive 2004/38 /EC (transposed into Irish law by European Communities (Free Movement of Persons) Regulations 2006 and 2008) applies only to EU citizens who move to or reside in a Member State other than that of which they are a national, and to their family members who accompany or join them. References to EU citizens include EEA citizens.

Basis of visa application
If you wish to have your visa application considered under the Directive on the basis that you are a family member of an EU citizen exercising or planning to exercise free movement rights you must state this clearly on your application. If you state that you wish to have your application considered on the basis of the Directive rather than under national law, and your application is refused, you will be offered the opportunity to apply under national law but the normal fee will apply.

Type of visa
In the event that you decide to have your visa application considered on the basis of the Directive and it is approved you will be issued with a single journey short-stay C visa which will permit you to enter and reside in the State for up to 3 months. In the event that you wish to remain in the State for more than 3 months as a family member of an EU citizen exercising their free movement rights, you must apply (when in the State) for a Residence Card of a family member of a Union citizen. ''


Then when you arrive and have secured somewhere to live and the EU national has found work within the 3 months, you apply for the residence card for 5 years for the non-EEA national on the EU1 form by post. Normally, you don't register with the Garda until you have sent off the EU1 form and you have received a reply telling you go to to the Garda from INIS. This reply allows you to get a temporary stamp 4 permission to live and work whilst they decide your application for 6 months, as the application for the residence card normally takes 6 months.

Perfect. Thank you very much.

Kalpesh1987
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Re: Ireland from India surinder Singh urgent help!!

Post by Kalpesh1987 » Thu Jun 05, 2014 4:04 pm

I have managed to plan most of it out in my mind and I guess the only thing that I am a bit unsure of is whether we can do this route while the spouse visa remains on hold. I have seen conflicting opinions on this..

Kalpesh1987
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Re: Ireland from India surinder Singh urgent help!!

Post by Kalpesh1987 » Mon Jun 09, 2014 9:29 am

You know my situation so I won't go into the detailed background again but I'm hoping you guys can help me out on these questions:

1. I am going to fly out from London to India and then the return flight will be to Dublin. Would I have to show a return back to uk? And as my wife will be travelling with me from India, would she need a return ticket to show at immigration back to India?

2. On arrival in ireland it states on inis website that entry into the country is at the IO discretion..even tho it am going there to exercise my treaty rights, could the IO refuse my wife entry? Or give her a 1 month stamp instead of the 3 month?

3. Could the IO at the airport ask for anything other then passports and proof of marriage?

4. Do I as an EU citizen have to prove I am exercising my rights AT THE POINT OF ARRIVAL? Or can I just tell them that I will be working once I find work?

Again, I appreciate all your help.

Kalpesh

357mag
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Re: Ireland from India surinder Singh urgent help!!

Post by 357mag » Mon Jun 09, 2014 10:25 am

1 No need to show return to UK, No need for wife to have return ticket to Inidia.
2 its always up to IO discretion but as long as your wife has a visa for entry you should be fine.
3 IO can ask for whatever they want but guidekines are only ID and proof of relationship
4 just tell them that you plan to,
I am not a forum GURU, I am often wrong
Dont take any notice of anything I post, I'm getting old and havn't the foggiest what I'm talking about.

Kalpesh1987
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Re: Ireland from India surinder Singh urgent help!!

Post by Kalpesh1987 » Mon Jun 09, 2014 3:22 pm

Thanks

I've been reading up and it seems that the correct visa is a C visa which I thought was not the right one.

You may already know a lot of this but I have these two links that may be useful to you as you are travelling soon. I will be printing this off and taking it with me to ireland

http://www.inis.gov.ie/en/INIS/Processi ... ective.pdf

http://eumovement.wordpress.com/directive-200438ec/

Hope you find them useful for your travels

Kalpesh

ravneet86
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India surinder Singh urgent help please!!

Post by ravneet86 » Fri Sep 12, 2014 10:31 am

Hi all

please i need very urgent request please do reply

my dad is british citizen he lives in uk as in surinder singh route if he goes in europe works for 3 months is he able to call my mum from india in europe ??

will she need to paas the english test if she comes to europe as she is not educated .. and secondly she have to stay with my dad in europe and after three months are they both able to come in uk

thanks a lot

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