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Confusing online form for dependant of settled person

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oace
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Confusing online form for dependant of settled person

Post by oace » Sat Feb 01, 2014 12:04 am

Hi,
I am really confused among the options that I'm getting on the online form while applying for the spousal/dependant visa for my wife. I'm on ILR, and my wife will be joining me under the 'Family of Settled person' I guess.

The first section in the online form asks for three things; Reason for visit, Visa Type and Visa Sub-type. Please look at the screenshot.
Pic1.jpg
Options while creating the application
Pic1.jpg (48.5 KiB) Viewed 2687 times
What should I select in the visa sub type? Marriage or Wife?

Irrespective of the selection above, in the further sections it asks for Sponsor Details. One of the questions is 'What is their relationship to you' and there is no such options as spouse, wife or husband. Please look at the image (scroll to the bottom please)
Pic2.jpg
Sponsor details - Relationship question
Pic2.jpg (124.21 KiB) Viewed 2687 times
Please can anyone help what should I be choosing here and if I'm doing anything wrong. I was expecting to see 'Husband', 'Partner' or 'Spouse' as one of the options but it isn't available.

Any help will be greatly appreciated.

Cheers
Oace

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Re: Confusing online form for dependant of settled person

Post by vinny » Sat Feb 01, 2014 1:45 am

Agree that it's badly set up.

If wife is the applicant then the sponsor is logically the husband.
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oace
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Re: Confusing online form for dependant of settled person

Post by oace » Sun Feb 02, 2014 4:17 pm

Moderators/Experts,

Please can anyone in this forum help me on my query in the first post?

It has to be one of the most straight forward applications ... 'wife applying for visa as a dependant of settled person'.
Am I making a mistake in the selections? (please see the screenshots in my original post)

Will really appreciate help.

Regards,
Oace

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Re: Confusing online form for dependant of settled person

Post by Amber » Sun Feb 02, 2014 6:28 pm

It would be wife if you are already married.
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oace
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Re: Confusing online form for dependant of settled person

Post by oace » Sun Feb 02, 2014 8:56 pm

Thanks. Please can you also comment on the second question.

Regards,
Oace

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Re: Confusing online form for dependant of settled person

Post by Amber » Sun Feb 02, 2014 9:34 pm

Which was?
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Re: Confusing online form for dependant of settled person

Post by oace » Sun Feb 02, 2014 11:41 pm

Thanks for the answer earlier, I'm already married so selecting 'wife' makes sense.

Irrespective of the selection as 'wife' or 'marriage', in the further sections it asks for Sponsor Details. One of the questions in that section is 'What is their relationship to you' and there is no such options as spouse, partner or husband. Please look at the image (scroll to the bottom please)
Pic2.jpg
Pic2.jpg (124.21 KiB) Viewed 2607 times
What should I select here?

Regards,
Oace

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Re: Confusing online form for dependant of settled person

Post by Amber » Sun Feb 02, 2014 11:44 pm

If it's your wife, you, the sponsor, would be the husband, as Vinny pointed out earlier. So it would have to be other.
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Re: Confusing online form for dependant of settled person

Post by oace » Mon Feb 03, 2014 12:09 am

Thank you Amber.

Can't believe it that they have designed this form without the option of wife or husband in this question which I believe would be one of the most common application selections.

I was questioning my selections since I just couldn't believe it.

All, If you are reading this post and you think if I may have made a mistake, I'd really appreciate if you could hit reply and let me know.

Regards,
Oace

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Re: Confusing online form for dependant of settled person

Post by esukhpreet9 » Mon Sep 22, 2014 8:47 pm

Hi Oace,

I am having the same confusion. What did you fill in at the end.
I am thinking to fill in "Other Relative". Is it correct?

Regards
Es

oace
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Re: Confusing online form for dependant of settled person

Post by oace » Tue Sep 23, 2014 9:14 am

Hi Es,

I ended up filling 'Other Relative'. I also phoned UKBA to seek guidance and they also confirmed that this was the most closest and correct option to select. There is a free text description section on the form, I used that space to explain that I couldn't find a better option than 'other relative' but clearly explained my circumstances to make my case clear.

In the end my wife got the visa :)

Hope that helps, and I wish you and everyone else in this situation get through this.

Regards,
Oace

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Re: Confusing online form for dependant of settled person

Post by esukhpreet9 » Tue Sep 23, 2014 10:31 am

Hi Oace,

Thanks for your reply and congratulations for getting the visa :)

I have another doubt if you can please help.

While filling the online application form it asks for the applicant's employment details. And they all are mandatory fields. If we fill all the details related to employer, salary etc, does she needs to submit any documents to confirm it e.g salary slips, employer letter and bank statements?

As she doesn't want to tell her employer about it until she gets the visa, so we have this confusion.

Also in the application form they ask for sponsor details- where is your sponsor now? will you be travelling with him? and asks for my contact details. I am currently in the UK but will be in India while applying for her visa after 1.5 months. Should we say the sponsor is not in UK and give my Indian contact details now? Though I am planning to travel back with her after 2 months after applying for her visa (if she gets it on time).


Did you have the same case?

Regards
Es

oace
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Re: Confusing online form for dependant of settled person

Post by oace » Tue Sep 23, 2014 10:56 am

Hi Es,

Thanks for the nice words.

As per guidance, she only needs to submit the sponsor's bank statements and salary slips (unless you guys are relying your case on her earnings - think that's not the case)

If she's solely relying on your earnings and you are claiming that she will be totally dependent on you when she gets to the UK, in this case you don't need to (and shouldn't) provide her bank statements and salary slips. As doing so will only confuse the visa officer. If they may end up considering her bank statements and salary slips for the case, that may not suffice the threshold required for the earnings requirement (unless she's a CEO of a multi-national) :) I suggest you mention her employment details but clarify in the description that you're sponsoring her completely.

Regarding your second question, I suggest you give your current (UK) contact details because that's where you are at the moment. This will also help the visa officer to understand that you have already got leave to remain in the UK irrespective of the decision on her case. I know you will be in India while you actually apply for it, but UK still remains your 'place of residence' - I think that's the context of the question.

My case was different - I was in UK when my wife applied. But after she got it, I went back and we travelled together.

You have your visa approved, and there's no restriction on your visa in terms of travelling. And whether your wife travels with you or alone, doesn't make much difference to the case itself.

Hope it helps.

Regards,
Oace

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Re: Confusing online form for dependant of settled person

Post by esukhpreet9 » Tue Sep 23, 2014 11:21 am

Thanks very much for your help Oace
I will start filling out rest of the form :)

Will let you know if I have any other query

Regards
Es

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Re: Confusing online form for dependant of settled person

Post by esukhpreet9 » Thu Sep 25, 2014 9:22 am

Hi Oace,

I have another question if you can help please.
In the family details section, it asks for the passport number, nationality and address details. Are these the details of the sponsor or the applicant?

Also my (sponsor) permanent address on my passport is Indian address as I am renting in the UK. Will it be ok to enter Indian address? Though in other places I will mention my UK address as well and will tell them in the cover letter that I am currently in India though usually I live in the UK.
Form1.png
Form1.png (71.44 KiB) Viewed 1808 times


Regards
Es

oace
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Re: Confusing online form for dependant of settled person

Post by oace » Tue Sep 30, 2014 8:52 am

Hi,

From the looks of it, it would be Applicants details in the Family section because you (sponsor) have got a separate section for your details.

Your permanent address is where you live permanently and that is in the UK so you should enter your UK address where your wife will live with you once she is here. It doesn't matter which address you have got on your passport.

Regards,
Oace

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Re: Confusing online form for dependant of settled person

Post by EGO8 » Mon Jul 20, 2015 10:39 am

oace wrote:Hi Es,

I ended up filling 'Other Relative'. I also phoned UKBA to seek guidance and they also confirmed that this was the most closest and correct option to select. There is a free text description section on the form, I used that space to explain that I couldn't find a better option than 'other relative' but clearly explained my circumstances to make my case clear.

In the end my wife got the visa :)

Hope that helps, and I wish you and everyone else in this situation get through this.

Regards,
Oace
Hi Oace,
I need discuss some pressing matters with you

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Re: Confusing online form for dependant of settled person

Post by EGO8 » Mon Jul 20, 2015 10:43 am

Hi all,

I need talk to Oace urgently. Is it possible to send him a private message?

oace
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Re: Confusing online form for dependant of settled person

Post by oace » Mon Jul 20, 2015 11:36 am

Apparently I'm still subscribed to the topic so I got a notification :) Will be happy to help if I can.

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Re: Confusing online form for dependant of settled person

Post by EGO8 » Tue Jul 21, 2015 11:50 am

Thanks for getting back. I have my application ( entry clearance for spouse for the purpose of settlement) refused for filling 'other relative' in my application. This led to the ECO considering my application under ' other dependent relative' instead of 'spouse or wife or husband'.
I have appealed the decision. Seeing your post about calling the UKVI on this same issue I wonder if you can provide me with a statement to booster my appeal case. I am appealing on grounds of unfairness because a poor designed or mal-functioning of the application website led to the error of my application being refused.
Can you?

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Re: Confusing online form for dependant of settled person

Post by EGO8 » Tue Jul 21, 2015 11:52 am

oace wrote:Apparently I'm still subscribed to the topic so I got a notification :) Will be happy to help if I can.
Thanks for getting back. I have my application ( entry clearance for spouse for the purpose of settlement) refused for filling 'other relative' in my application. This led to the ECO considering my application under ' other dependent relative' instead of 'spouse or wife or husband'.
I have appealed the decision. Seeing your post about calling the UKVI on this same issue I wonder if you can provide me with a statement to booster my appeal case. I am appealing on grounds of unfairness because a poor designed or mal-functioning of the application website led to the error of my application being refused.
Can you?

oace
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Re: Confusing online form for dependant of settled person

Post by oace » Wed Jul 22, 2015 12:07 pm

Hi, All I did was tried to explain in the explanation section in the form that the application was for my wife and I clearly mentioned that there is no other field available in the system that matches the criteria hence I'm using 'Other relative' but it is 'actually' for my spouse.

My suggestion to you would be to base your claim on the 'lack of clarity in the system' which led to the application refusal. If you go down the route of unfairness, you're risking a whole new chapter of opening up which may include other things that you may not have even thought about. They may refuse your claim by saying, just a thought, that the system is same for everyone - which is actually true. But other applicants may have clarified it better in their application working around the unclear system.

An unclear system is same for everyone else, so it cannot be unfair to just yourself. The application decision, they can claim, has also got dependency on how much you made things clear.

It's up to you, but if I was in your position, I would not have taken the 'unfairness' route since in my opinion it's actually not unfairness but just an outcome of lack of clarity in the system and potentially your application as well.

Hope it helps.

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Re: Confusing online form for dependant of settled person

Post by EGO8 » Thu Jul 23, 2015 8:59 am

Thanks Oace. I am persuaded by the lack of clarity point you raised. I am now editing my statement to reflect that.

Just to give you a fuller preview:
(1) There was an interview which the UKVI denied in post-decision emails and in the refusal notice as well. However we have, through a Subject Access Request, obtained records of that interview. We also have legitimate expectations, following a UKVI policy, that the answers given in that interview should have been taken into account and should have been allowed to supersede any discrepancy in the application form. The decision makers were not even aware of this interview. How come they forgot is a critical one. In a public statement we have obtained the UKVI said the purpose of that interview is to clarify why I was applying for visa but afterwards they ignored the interview. We have case laws to support this line of argument too. This is why we were initially pursuing procedural unfairness.
(2) We have email communications showing that we got in touch with UKVI to inform them of the distortion we noticed with our application. We are saying that not putting our queries/complaints into account while reaching a decision is unfairness if not unreasonableness. Again there are case laws and policies pointing that this is what the ECO should have done.

I was just looking to get extra evidence from previous applicants to show that actually there is been a lingering un-clarity with the on-line application.

In all, my approach to this appeal may be wrong so I shy away from no advice.Get back to me. Cheers

oace
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Re: Confusing online form for dependant of settled person

Post by oace » Thu Jul 23, 2015 9:30 am

I think you have got a strong case here, assuming this is the only thing they refused it for. And the effort you have done to obtain evidences to substantiate your claim are none but reasonable and practical. Just keep in mind that the approach you need to take is not to prove them wrong and hold them accountable, but your success is to get your application approved.

Good luck.

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