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Tier 5 expires in July - work for employer remotely?

Only for UK Tier 5 (Temporary work) points system
Also includes the Youth Mobility Scheme Tier 5

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pl970
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Tier 5 expires in July - work for employer remotely?

Post by pl970 » Wed Feb 25, 2015 9:54 am

Hi all

My YMS will expire in July, and I'm currently working on an important project for a major international company in the UK office (as a contractor). My hiring manager definitely wants me to continue on the project. I was wondering if it would be possible to work for my current UK company remotely - I was thinking of moving to Spain under their 'Non-lucrative residence visa' to decrease any time differences (I'm Australian).

Many thanks

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Frontier Mole
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Re: Tier 5 expires in July - work for employer remotely?

Post by Frontier Mole » Wed Feb 25, 2015 10:27 am

You can work anywhere you want outside of the UK as long as you don't return for any type of business activity.
However for employment purposes you will not be based in the UK and your tax affairs will have to be based outside of the UK.
As for the rules in relation to Spain, have not got a clue. I am assuming it is a work type visa you will get? As a contractor you will be considered as self employed. If the Spanish visa allows this then you will be ok I imagine.

pl970
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Re: Tier 5 expires in July - work for employer remotely?

Post by pl970 » Wed Feb 25, 2015 10:45 am

Wellt he Spanish visa will just be a residence visa that does not allow you to work in Spain (i.e taking Spanish jobs away from Spaniards) but to reside there as long as you have sufficient funds per month to cover your costs. So my dream scenario is to live in Spain and work remotely whilst there for my UK company. This all stems from my dread of returning to Australia (funny that, many would kill to live in Australia, but I guess one man's trash is another man's treasure)...

Wanderer
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Re: Tier 5 expires in July - work for employer remotely?

Post by Wanderer » Thu Feb 26, 2015 2:43 pm

pl970 wrote:Wellt he Spanish visa will just be a residence visa that does not allow you to work in Spain (i.e taking Spanish jobs away from Spaniards) but to reside there as long as you have sufficient funds per month to cover your costs. So my dream scenario is to live in Spain and work remotely whilst there for my UK company. This all stems from my dread of returning to Australia (funny that, many would kill to live in Australia, but I guess one man's trash is another man's treasure)...
You'll be deemed as working in Spain, remote or not, since you'll be tax resident in Spain.
An chéad stad eile Stáisiún Uí Chonghaile....

pl970
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Re: Tier 5 expires in July - work for employer remotely?

Post by pl970 » Thu Feb 26, 2015 3:05 pm

I've been trying to get in contact with the Spanish consulate here in London, and they sent me the wrong information (sent me info regarding spousal visas....). It just seems weird that there are a lot of blogs / websites where American expats have obtained the non-lucrative visa whilst continuing to work remotely for their US company. Could it be that they are paying tax in Spain but not classified as 'workers' in Spain (i.e. not stealing a Spaniard's job but still paying tax, win win!)?

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Re: Tier 5 expires in July - work for employer remotely?

Post by Wanderer » Thu Feb 26, 2015 3:33 pm

pl970 wrote:I've been trying to get in contact with the Spanish consulate here in London, and they sent me the wrong information (sent me info regarding spousal visas....). It just seems weird that there are a lot of blogs / websites where American expats have obtained the non-lucrative visa whilst continuing to work remotely for their US company. Could it be that they are paying tax in Spain but not classified as 'workers' in Spain (i.e. not stealing a Spaniard's job but still paying tax, win win!)?
I work in EU a lot on contract and I always have to pay tax where I'm doing the work, and it's mostly remote work I do. I have seen many contractors do the opposite and paid the price, especially with the German Finanzamt.

Sooner or later when you are resident a tax demand will drop though your door, I can't really think of anyway of justifiably not paying tax in a country in which you are living. Common sense really.

Also you'll find US citizens are probably the world's leading visa abusers, and pay tax on their worldwide income too so probably think they're exempt.
An chéad stad eile Stáisiún Uí Chonghaile....

pl970
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Re: Tier 5 expires in July - work for employer remotely?

Post by pl970 » Thu Feb 26, 2015 3:37 pm

Ok so does that mean even if I'm not taking a Spaniard's job, I still have to get a work visa for Spain and thus jump through all the same hoops (i.e. assessing whether or not a Spaniard can do the same job)? That really sucks....guess I have to leave my Spanish girlfriend then -___-

Edit: I actually don't mind paying tax at all - I just want to stay in Europe (Spain in particular) so even if it means working remotely and paying tax in Spain, I'm all up for it!

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Re: Tier 5 expires in July - work for employer remotely?

Post by Wanderer » Thu Feb 26, 2015 5:19 pm

App. form says...
These visas allow the holder to remain in Spain for more than 90 days without undertaking any type of work or professional
activity.
Chances are with it being Spain you'll get away with it probably but we cant be seen to advocate that sort of thing on the board!
An chéad stad eile Stáisiún Uí Chonghaile....

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Frontier Mole
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Re: Tier 5 expires in July - work for employer remotely?

Post by Frontier Mole » Thu Feb 26, 2015 5:26 pm

They are probably happy with the expenditure the illegals bring to their economy given their poor state they are in. :-)

pl970
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Re: Tier 5 expires in July - work for employer remotely?

Post by pl970 » Thu Feb 26, 2015 5:46 pm

Yeh I wish, given that it's Spain and no one checks anything (sometimes they don't even stamp my passport when going through the airport, so I could overstay my visa and they wouldn't even know!). But of course, I want everything to be done all nice and legally, hence why I'm doing all this research and posting on forums for help...

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Frontier Mole
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Re: Tier 5 expires in July - work for employer remotely?

Post by Frontier Mole » Thu Feb 26, 2015 6:55 pm

Simple question, crystal ball gazing - what and where to want be is say two/ three years?
If it is in Spain or the UK based on what your research to date you have not found a solution.
If there any chance you can get a tier 2 general visa from your current employer or is that a waste of time as you want to live in Spain?

pl970
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Re: Tier 5 expires in July - work for employer remotely?

Post by pl970 » Thu Feb 26, 2015 7:04 pm

Thanks for the replies so far guys.

Yes, I definitely want to live in Spain. As I freely admit, I have the biggest first world problem in that I don't like living in Australia and have been dreaming of escaping since I reached adulthood. I'm currently working for one of the largest companies in the world in a project that will last until at least the end of 2017.
I'm definitely trying to find a solution, and there's quite a few blogs from people who did the exact same thing I'm trying to do right now (and I really doubt they are dodging taxes as they mention paying taxes in Spain as well).
I know, it's not like I'll be returning to Iraq or something if I fail, but I've never felt 'at home' in Sydney, and right now there MAY be an opportunity to do something about it (heck, being able to work remotely is already a huge step up!).

Wanderer
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Re: Tier 5 expires in July - work for employer remotely?

Post by Wanderer » Thu Feb 26, 2015 8:20 pm

Just re-read from top - as a contractor your company would be taxed in Spain from day one, as it's centre of operations would be in Spain, opening up a veritable can of accounting and taxation worms, and you would as an employee be taxed in Spain as soon as you are resident, which given your circumstances would also be day one.

If it were me I'd not entertain it if your goal is residency in the EU, you don't want to have to start off with a deception mark on your immigration record.
An chéad stad eile Stáisiún Uí Chonghaile....

pl970
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Re: Tier 5 expires in July - work for employer remotely?

Post by pl970 » Thu Feb 26, 2015 9:09 pm

Ooof that really sucks. Makes me wonder how all the bloggers from North America did it....for example, in this blog the author states a list of requirements, including:

10. Proof of Sufficient Funds – Since you aren’t allowed to work while in Spain, you have to prove that you have sufficient income or savings to support yourself during your stay. In my case, I am working but because I work for American companies outside Spain, this is acceptable and I just need to prove I earn enough to support myself.

And these blog entries were from just last year! Either way, I'll head off to a Spanish Consulate in London to ask some questions.

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