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Extended Family Member

Forum to discuss all things Blarney | Ireland immigration

Moderators: Casa, push, JAJ, ca.funke, Amber, zimba, vinny, Obie, EUsmileWEallsmile, batleykhan, meself2, geriatrix, John, ChetanOjha, archigabe, Administrator

legalaid
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Joined: Wed Jun 24, 2015 1:05 am

Extended Family Member

Post by legalaid » Wed Jun 24, 2015 1:43 am

Hi,

Could you please help?

I am in UK for the last 18 months on Tier 4 General visa with my wife and Kids.My brother is British National and he is planning to move to ireland to exercise is treaty rights. My query is that is it possible that we can apply for extended family member permit in UK or do we have to move to ireland with him.
What documents are required to prove financial dependency ?
My visa is still valid but will be expiring in 2 months so what will be the status at the time of EEA dependent application. Do i need a valid visa at the time of application.
How long normally this process takes if applied from UK.
Consulted few solicitors but some are saying its possible and some are saying that applicants have to move to Ireland.
Please help and if anyone had the same exp please share.
I would appreciate if anyone could suggest any good solicitor in London.
Chances of visa in these Circumstances?

Thanks

Wanderer
Diamond Member
Posts: 10511
Joined: Thu Apr 21, 2005 12:46 pm
Ireland

Re: Extended Family Member

Post by Wanderer » Wed Jun 24, 2015 1:26 pm

Well all the the members of the family would have to move, I think that's fairly obvious.

Also think you'll have a job proving financial dependency especially living in UK unless your brother is exceptionally rich enough to support you, your wife and kids in UK....
An chéad stad eile Stáisiún Uí Chonghaile....

secret.simon
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Joined: Thu Feb 21, 2013 9:29 pm

Re: Extended Family Member

Post by secret.simon » Wed Jun 24, 2015 6:02 pm

I'm inclined to agree with Wanderer. It is not as simple as you think it is.

To begin with, as a brother, you are not a "family member", but "other family member who could be beneficiaries" of Directive 2004/38/EC. There is no requirement under European law for "other family members" to be given a visa as of right, only that it should be "facilitated". The meaning of "facilitated" is given in a judgment of the European Court of Justice. It gives a very wide discretion to Member States for setting rules regarding "other family members", as opposed to "family members", who get automatic rights.

The summary of the judgment is below;
1.
– the Member States are not required to grant every application for entry or residence submitted by family members of a Union citizen who do not fall under the definition in Article 2(2) of that directive, even if they show, in accordance with Article 10(2) thereof, that they are dependants of that citizen;

– it is, however, incumbent upon the Member States to ensure that their legislation contains criteria which enable those persons to obtain a decision on their application for entry and residence that is founded on an extensive examination of their personal circumstances and, in the event of refusal, is justified by reasons;

– the Member States have a wide discretion when selecting those criteria, but the criteria must be consistent with the normal meaning of the term ‘facilitate’ and of the words relating to dependence used in Article 3(2) and must not deprive that provision of its effectiveness; and

– every applicant is entitled to a judicial review of whether the national legislation and its application satisfy those conditions.

2. In order to fall within the category, referred to in Article 3(2) of Directive 2004/38, of family members who are ‘dependants’ of a Union citizen, the situation of dependence must exist in the country from which the family member concerned comes, at the very least at the time when he applies to join the Union citizen on whom he is dependent.

3. On a proper construction of Article 3(2) of Directive 2004/38, the Member States may, in the exercise of their discretion, impose particular requirements relating to the nature and duration of dependence, provided that those requirements are consistent with the normal meaning of the words relating to the dependence referred to in Article 3(2)(a) of the directive and do not deprive that provision of its effectiveness.
Have you stayed with your brother as a part of his household in either your country of origin or in the United Kingdom? If you have stayed with your brother in his household, you could possibly qualify as "other family members who live (or have lived recently) in the same household (even if they are not dependent)". But I'm not entirely sure your wife and children would qualify.

More info: https://eumovement.wordpress.com/2008/0 ... ficiaries/

In order for your brother to exercise his treaty rights, he will need to move "the center of his life" to another EEA country (i.e. get a job there, get a house there, etc; a process definitely exceeding three months and of roughly six months to a year) and invite you and your family there under Directive 2004/38/EC. Once he has exercised his treaty rights there, when he returns with you and your family to the UK, you can then apply for relevant permits under EEA Regulations, which, as I mentioned above, given that you are not a direct family member, is not guaranteed.

legalaid
Newbie
Posts: 42
Joined: Wed Jun 24, 2015 1:05 am

Re: Extended Family Member

Post by legalaid » Thu Jun 25, 2015 1:13 am

Thank you Member for the reply. Few more things

I am Non EEA extended family member and as you said this process could take upto 12 months but my UK visa will be expired in around 2- 3 months. Once my brother will apply permit for us do we need valid visa at that time?

Secondly it looks difficult to get Irish visa from UK being student. So in case we move to Ireland with my brother do they ask for valid visa/ date of entry at the time of permit application.

I would be grateful if anyone could suggest a good lawyer who is experienced in Non EEA family applications.

legalaid
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Re: Extended Family Member

Post by legalaid » Fri Jun 26, 2015 11:01 pm

Any senior Member Please?

legalaid
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Joined: Wed Jun 24, 2015 1:05 am

Re: Extended Family Member

Post by legalaid » Tue Jul 28, 2015 1:18 am

Could anyone please help with the list of required documents. As I am planning to move to ireland soon to apply for residence permit under extended family member route. I 'll grateful if someone has done this and could share their experience

Thanks

Obie
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Location: UK/Ireland
Ireland

Re: Extended Family Member

Post by Obie » Tue Jul 28, 2015 1:27 am

legalaid wrote:Could anyone please help with the list of required documents. As I am planning to move to ireland soon to apply for residence permit under extended family member route. I 'll grateful if someone has done this and could share their experience

Thanks
Would you be moving with him?

Are you currently in his home or receiving support from him?
Smooth seas do not make skilful sailors

legalaid
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Re: Extended Family Member

Post by legalaid » Wed Jul 29, 2015 1:28 am

Yes As I am not sure about the possibilities of applying from UK. I'll be moving with him to Ireland with my family.

I am living in his house for the last 18 months and have proofs of address like bank statement, NI, driving licence, vote etc.
He was also supporting me but obviously I was taking cash earlier but for the last couple of months he is transferring money into my account after 7-10 days. One more question that what kind of medical cover should I take before moving to Ireland as my wife is on life time medication.

legalaid
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Re: Extended Family Member

Post by legalaid » Thu Jul 30, 2015 10:12 pm

Any Member or someone with same experience please?

Obie
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Location: UK/Ireland
Ireland

Re: Extended Family Member

Post by Obie » Thu Jul 30, 2015 10:28 pm

What would your sponsor be doing in Ireland?
Smooth seas do not make skilful sailors

legalaid
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Re: Extended Family Member

Post by legalaid » Fri Jul 31, 2015 10:33 pm

He Has already moved to ireland and working in a retail store. He got his pps and will come back in a month time after renting a house for us. Then me and my family will move with him and apply for resident permit.

Obie
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Location: UK/Ireland
Ireland

Re: Extended Family Member

Post by Obie » Fri Jul 31, 2015 10:45 pm

That is a positive start. But my concern is whether within the terms of Irish legislation, you will be classified as a permitted family member.
Smooth seas do not make skilful sailors

legalaid
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Re: Extended Family Member

Post by legalaid » Sat Aug 01, 2015 12:46 am

Thats Correct Obie. So what do you suggest to do in this case. I am bit confused and still looking for the answers i had mentioned above in previous posts. It would be very hard for me to move with family and especially when you have no idea about the time frames. I could not find any suitable solicitor in London who could guide me the complete process, All help i am getting from you and other kind members. I'll be moving to ireland through northern ireland route with my brother. Would it be a problem when applying for initial stamp because i would not be having valid visa for republic of ireland at the time of application. Many thanks for your reply and would be grateful if someone can answer my last posts

Obie
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Location: UK/Ireland
Ireland

Re: Extended Family Member

Post by Obie » Sat Aug 01, 2015 12:50 am

What is the question?

I guess you and your family have ID documents ?
Smooth seas do not make skilful sailors

legalaid
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Re: Extended Family Member

Post by legalaid » Sat Aug 01, 2015 1:39 am

Yes we have valid british visa but nor for N ireland. My question is that do authorities ask for any legal entry requirement before temp stamp or is it OK to travel with my brother who is UK national and moving to Ireland with us.

seekingadvice87
Member
Posts: 127
Joined: Sat Aug 01, 2015 9:29 pm

Re: Extended Family Member

Post by seekingadvice87 » Sat Aug 01, 2015 10:08 pm

Hi there!

I'm new to this forum and being following up on posts for a while now. I'm pretty much in the same boat as legalaid is and I don't come across posts on Extended Family Members very often.

Here's my situation.
In Ireland and getting ready to apply for a Residence Card as an Extended Family Member and would like to know whether

1. Not having any status in Ireland would affect my EU1 application yet to be submitted as I came via NI about a year ago now. So I have no stamps whatsoever on my current passport?

2. Staying in Ireland past the initial 3 months would have any effect?

3. Previous UK immigration history as I left I think it was in the middle of a JR. I didn't follow it up in the end but I got advise from another solicitor to the one handling my case to just leave and I ended up in Ireland. (I didn't want to overstay my T4 visa expiring in Oct 2014 :(

I moved with my British sibling whom I was living with back in the UK and was just at the time my sibling was moving to Ireland to start a business.

Thank you very much for your help in advance. (Should I be starting my own thread? This is my very first post, thanks)

legalaid
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Re: Extended Family Member

Post by legalaid » Sun Aug 02, 2015 12:37 am

Hi Seekingadvice

I am sure some senior member can answer your/my questions but could you please tell me

1. what kind of dependency/household proofs are you submitting.
2. Have your brother started work or business.
3. Did you consult any solicitor.
4. What took you so long to apply for eu application.

As you are in Ireland and i am sure would have more knowledge of these cases. Did you find any body who has received his stamp as an extended family member.I had consulted few people but they are direcy family members so not sure what documentation is required for extended family members and what are the chances. As I am moving with my family so would be harder for me.

Obie
Moderator
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Location: UK/Ireland
Ireland

Re: Extended Family Member

Post by Obie » Sun Aug 02, 2015 12:41 am

I sent you a private message. Were you able to read it?
Smooth seas do not make skilful sailors

seekingadvice87
Member
Posts: 127
Joined: Sat Aug 01, 2015 9:29 pm

Re: Extended Family Member

Post by seekingadvice87 » Sun Aug 02, 2015 1:49 am

Hi Legalaid,

So far

Bank statements showing transfer of funds as well as school fees/ documents registered to my sibling's address, utility/council tax bills and uni letter to the same address previously from the UK. In Ireland, equivalent bills in my sibling's name, tenancy agreement. I think you only need to prove either dependency/ household membership and not both. But as we're classed as Extended Family, my opinion is if you have docs to prove both, might as well.

Both our birth certificates to show family ties, the obvious passports

The business is up(self-employment route) so payslips/tax agreement/ invoice on orders etc. The list depends on what route you're taking so make sure you check the INIS website and the form to know what's being required. That's what we did. For example, if your family is taking the self-sufficient route or student route, the documents required will vary slightly.

I've had 3 solicitors in total. 2 in UK and 1 in Ireland.

Well, we've not been in a rush and as my rights aren't automatic we figured we wanted ALL documents ready first before submitting all together. I don't know if this is a good thing that's why I asked whether being here way beyond the initial 3 months and without a status is a problem. Do you by any chance know?

How about you? What documents have you gathered so far? Thank you!

seekingadvice87
Member
Posts: 127
Joined: Sat Aug 01, 2015 9:29 pm

Re: Extended Family Member

Post by seekingadvice87 » Sun Aug 02, 2015 2:39 am

I'm sorry but I unfortunately can't read private messages. I'm new on here and don't know whether this feature has to do with my settings :)

Could you post the message on here instead? Thanks

legalaid
Newbie
Posts: 42
Joined: Wed Jun 24, 2015 1:05 am

Re: Extended Family Member

Post by legalaid » Sun Aug 02, 2015 2:44 am

Is your brother already residing in Ireland or you have moved from UK?

I have arranged the following docs so far.

My driving Licence showing add
Family regeneration cert confirming relationship
My bank account add
Transfer of funds from my brother account.
Vote
GP reg letter

Could you please explain what is self sufficient route? I am not sure about any requirement of applying within 3 months . Have you applied for temp stamp or you have never put an application to immigration authority?

legalaid
Newbie
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Joined: Wed Jun 24, 2015 1:05 am

Re: Extended Family Member

Post by legalaid » Sun Aug 02, 2015 3:20 am

As you are in Ireland so have you seen any positive outcome for extended family members cases?

seekingadvice87
Member
Posts: 127
Joined: Sat Aug 01, 2015 9:29 pm

Re: Extended Family Member

Post by seekingadvice87 » Sun Aug 02, 2015 9:23 am

My understanding is that if your EU family member is economically non-active, they use the self-sufficiency route to reside in another state and you all will need to have comprehensive sickness insurance as well as the EU national have sufficient resources to cover themselves and family members.

There isn't a set amount but what's used to determine this is the threshold under which nationals themselves are eligible for social assistance, you know like the benefits system back in the UK so what would be required of you may not exceed this threshold or the threshold for the payment of a pension.

I don't know of any cases to be honest and I mean whether family or extended family. I'm not applying on my own but with my mother. The lawyer we met reviewed our case and said my mum has an automatic right as a direct family where as I fall under permitted family. The lawyer however wants us to have every document requested before handing in our application.

I think the reason why it's taken this long for us is because we waited until we started getting the actual business up and running and that could take time but we have gathered documents over the months. I don't know all the documents we have but my sibling has been handling that side of things. It doesn't take this long for you to put in an EU1 app so you should go with your own time. Every one's case is different. If you have your documents ready you might as well not wait.

My only concern is, I don't know what stage my previous UK application which was rejected initially is at and I hope that doesn't affect my EU1 application as a permitted family.

seekingadvice87
Member
Posts: 127
Joined: Sat Aug 01, 2015 9:29 pm

Re: Extended Family Member

Post by seekingadvice87 » Sun Oct 04, 2015 10:23 pm

legalaid wrote:As you are in Ireland so have you seen any positive outcome for extended family members cases?
Hello legalaid! I think you've tried to send me two private messages now. I can't read them so please post what you're trying to communicate on here instead. I'm just as curious to know about the application process so my knowledge is very limited.

legalaid
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Joined: Wed Jun 24, 2015 1:05 am

Re: Extended Family Member

Post by legalaid » Mon Oct 05, 2015 11:16 am

Hi

Just wanted to ask about progress of your case. I am also in Ireland and collecting documents for application but few things are still not cleared. Could you please tell me what kind of medical insurance is required and what are the best options. Time for stamp4 is getting longer day by day and specially when you have no job here

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