Change of status (from stamp 4EUFAM to own right to remain)

Hi everyone,

My name is Ms Moritz (Mauritian national) and I have been living in Dublin, Ireland, since the 18th of Sept 2005 on a student visa till I got married to a Slovak national after 2 years. I made the application for a Stamp 4 EUFAM GNIB card on the 31/03/2008 and I was issued with one on the 05/09/2008.

I was supposed to get 5 years visa (as mentioned in the letter that the Dept of Justice sent me) but as my passport was about to expire in 4 years, I was told to come back when I renew my passport to get the additional year.

Meanwhile my personal situation changed a lot. Approximately 19 months after the marriage my husband left me and couple of weeks after, I received a drafted deed of separation by post which I didn’t sign. Since then I never heard from him, though I got a solicitor to check the deed of separation and to get in touch with his solicitor but as he didn’t want to pay any of the expenses..he just disappeared completely. So we are not legally separated. Last thing I know from him he has kids with a woman he met after me. He is still in Dublin, my friends saw him couple of times but I don't know what he is up to. I don't have any details from him no address or telephone num (no contact details whatsoever).

My 4 years visa is about to finish on the 20th of August 2012, so I went to the Immigration office with my new passport and I was told I can’t get the visa for the last year unless I bring my husband with me (we are still legally married) or the other option was to apply for the change of status on my own right and get the additional year but immigration is not obliged to give the 1 year Visa.

I was told to write an official letter to the immigration office to advice that my husband deserted me and I don’t have any contact details from him and based on this they’ll change my GNIB card from stamp 4 EUFAM to a new stamp (which would reflect that the change of status). I understood I still would have the same right to work in the country till I apply for naturalization.

I’m not divorced yet as per Irish law we need to be separated for 4 years before I can apply for a divorce and it’s only going on 3 years in August.
Also I have a boyfriend for a little bit more than 2 years. He is from France but doesn’t have a fix situation, I mean he has a job but it’s very flexible sometimes he is getting a lot of hours sometimes it’s very low.

I’m very preoccupied by this situation and I don’t want to be without papers as it would mean that if I have any emergencies back in Mauritius and if I go there I won’t be able to come back to my boyfriend (I’ve never took any social benefit neither did my boyfriend and he is here almost 4 yrs) and also I would like to have the opportunity to apply for the naturalisation as I waited so long and worked so hard.

I’m hoping to get some advice and some ideas how to tackle my problem. Which way would be better applying on my own right or on the de facto terms?? Any suggestions please feel free to comment. Anyone in the same situation or who has any info at all, please don’t hesitate.

Thanks for your time & appreciate all the help and advice in advance.
Moritz

check Your Pm

dont worry just contact some good solicitirs like brophy in dublin and they will sort this out for you some people i know in your situation got their status

khan24 wrote:check Your Pm

Hi Everyone

Myself is in same situation,any help and advice please!

Hello there,

Thanks Dania but I was onto Brophy already and they told me it's not sure that I'll get it. The solicitor I talked was very reluctant and didn't give the impression that there was any knowledge of the happenings..none of my question was answered and I paid 100 euros for the visit. I even dropped the solicitor some emails to get answers for my questions again but instead I got fob off.

Anyway thanks again for the encouragement.

Regards,

Moritz

dania wrote:dont worry just contact some good solicitirs like brophy in dublin and they will sort this out for you some people i know in your situation got their status

Hi Moritz2325, the EU treaty law under which you are issued 4EUFam have a big loop whole in terms of non EU nationals. In separation its absolute discretion of the minister to retain your residence card or not. The EU law only need a divorce cert.

Marriage or divorce (NO SEPARATION). which is extremely stupid & i think who ever made this law was completely drunk that time. Almost every couple have some probs with each other and it doesn't mean that they have to get divorce but under the EUFam law you have to get divorce to retain ur residence card or live together. I am sorry that you are going under stressful situation. wish you good luck.

Hello Zafar,

Thanks for the msg. I thought so..it's a bummer though. I know it is indeed stupid as where would someone get a divorce if they need to be separated for 4 years 1st before they can apply for one (in Ireland only).

Thanks, I really need some luck

Thanks for everything.

Moritz

zafarzafar80 wrote:Hi Moritz2325, the EU treaty law under which you are issued 4EUFam have a big loop whole in terms of non EU nationals. In separation its absolute discretion of the minister to retain your residence card or not. The EU law only need a divorce cert.

Marriage or divorce (NO SEPARATION). which is extremely stupid & i think who ever made this law was completely drunk that time. Almost every couple have some probs with each other and it doesn't mean that they have to get divorce but under the EUFam law you have to get divorce to retain ur residence card or live together. I am sorry that you are going under stressful situation. wish you good luck.

Moritz2325 wrote:Hi everyone,

My name is Ms Moritz (Mauritian national) and I have been living in Dublin, Ireland, since the 18th of Sept 2005 on a student visa till I got married to a Slovak national after 2 years.

"After 2 years" , you married in 2007,so

Moritz2325 wrote: I made the application for a Stamp 4 EUFAM GNIB card on the 31/03/2008 and I was issued with one on the 05/09/2008.

I was supposed to get 5 years visa (as mentioned in the letter that the Dept of Justice sent me) but as my passport was about to expire in 4 years, I was told to come back when I renew my passport to get the additional year.

No problems there, should be no problems, you will or should have still got 5 years, once you sort out your passport

Moritz2325 wrote: Meanwhile my personal situation changed a lot. Approximately 19 months after the marriage my husband left me and couple of weeks after, I received a drafted deed of separation by post which I didn’t sign.

But they are not divorce papers

Moritz2325 wrote: Since then I never heard from him, though I got a solicitor to check the deed of separation and to get in touch with his solicitor but as he didn’t want to pay any of the expenses..he just disappeared completely.

Your still legally married

Moritz2325 wrote: So we are not legally separated. Last thing I know from him he has kids with a woman he met after me. He is still in Dublin, my friends saw him couple of times but I don't know what he is up to. I don't have any details from him no address or telephone num (no contact details whatsoever).

My 4 years visa is about to finish on the 20th of August 2012, so I went to the Immigration office with my new passport and I was told I can’t get the visa for the last year unless I bring my husband with me (we are still legally married)

Yes, but do you even have evidence that he is still exercising his Treaty Rights. If not or he is not working etc, then your status is revocable (even if happily married)

Moritz2325 wrote: or the other option was to apply for the change of status on my own right and get the additional year but immigration is not obliged to give the 1 year Visa.

The relevant provision for you is Article 13 of Directive 2004/38EC.

Can you prove that he was working for at least 3 years?

Moritz2325 wrote: I was told to write an official letter to the immigration office to advice that my husband deserted me and I don’t have any contact details from him and based on this they’ll change my GNIB card from stamp 4 EUFAM to a new stamp (which would reflect that the change of status).

That was good advice.

Moritz2325 wrote: I understood I still would have the same right to work in the country till I apply for naturalization.

Until you become a citizen, if you become a citizen, you will have to continue in some way to renew your status.

Moritz2325 wrote: I’m not divorced yet as per Irish law we need to be separated for 4 years before I can apply for a divorce and it’s only going on 3 years in August.

He might divorce you from his own country - unlikely

Moritz2325 wrote: Also I have a boyfriend for a little bit more than 2 years. He is from France but doesn’t have a fix situation,

Are you living together? If so, for 2 years, the relationship is durable, and you have proofs, you maybe able to say that you are in a durable de facto relationship . Article 3.2 of Directive 2004/38 EC (Seems Article 13 might be hard to rely upon)

Moritz2325 wrote: I mean he has a job but it’s very flexible sometimes he is getting a lot of hours sometimes it’s very low.

Irrelevant, the term "worker" is very liberal regarding hours and wages amount.

Moritz2325 wrote: I’m hoping to get some advice and some ideas how to tackle my problem. Which way would be better applying on my own right or on the de facto terms??

If you have real evidence of de facto relationship, that is preferable. A general application to EU Section is required so you can try and rely on both Article 3.2 and Article 13

Moritz2325 wrote:Hi everyone,

My name is Ms Moritz (Mauritian national) and I have been living in Dublin, Ireland, since the 18th of Sept 2005 on a student visa till I got married to a Slovak national after 2 years. I made the application for a Stamp 4 EUFAM GNIB card on the 31/03/2008 and I was issued with one on the 05/09/2008.

I was supposed to get 5 years visa (as mentioned in the letter that the Dept of Justice sent me) but as my passport was about to expire in 4 years, I was told to come back when I renew my passport to get the additional year.

Meanwhile my personal situation changed a lot. Approximately 19 months after the marriage my husband left me and couple of weeks after, I received a drafted deed of separation by post which I didn’t sign. Since then I never heard from him, though I got a solicitor to check the deed of separation and to get in touch with his solicitor but as he didn’t want to pay any of the expenses..he just disappeared completely. So we are not legally separated. Last thing I know from him he has kids with a woman he met after me. He is still in Dublin, my friends saw him couple of times but I don't know what he is up to. I don't have any details from him no address or telephone num (no contact details whatsoever).

My 4 years visa is about to finish on the 20th of August 2012, so I went to the Immigration office with my new passport and I was told I can’t get the visa for the last year unless I bring my husband with me (we are still legally married) or the other option was to apply for the change of status on my own right and get the additional year but immigration is not obliged to give the 1 year Visa.

I was told to write an official letter to the immigration office to advice that my husband deserted me and I don’t have any contact details from him and based on this they’ll change my GNIB card from stamp 4 EUFAM to a new stamp (which would reflect that the change of status). I understood I still would have the same right to work in the country till I apply for naturalization.

I’m not divorced yet as per Irish law we need to be separated for 4 years before I can apply for a divorce and it’s only going on 3 years in August.
Also I have a boyfriend for a little bit more than 2 years. He is from France but doesn’t have a fix situation, I mean he has a job but it’s very flexible sometimes he is getting a lot of hours sometimes it’s very low.

I’m very preoccupied by this situation and I don’t want to be without papers as it would mean that if I have any emergencies back in Mauritius and if I go there I won’t be able to come back to my boyfriend (I’ve never took any social benefit neither did my boyfriend and he is here almost 4 yrs) and also I would like to have the opportunity to apply for the naturalisation as I waited so long and worked so hard.

I’m hoping to get some advice and some ideas how to tackle my problem. Which way would be better applying on my own right or on the de facto terms?? Any suggestions please feel free to comment. Anyone in the same situation or who has any info at all, please don’t hesitate.

Thanks for your time & appreciate all the help and advice in advance.
Moritz

Hi Moritz,

I just want to make one thing clear for you. You can not renew your visa on your own with out your spouse . He should accompany you no matter what situation it is if you want your visa renewed. You are still like a dependent person as long as you live in this country. You will be eligible to get your own right only when you stay on stamp4 EU continuosly for five yrs.

It is quite simple, with out your spouse help you cant get visa which ultimately lead to several problems even for naturalisation because your passport should bear continuous five yrs residence on stamp 4 EU.

Once your Visa is expired you will be treated as illegal resident doesnt matter whether you are living with your spouse or not.

Even if you approach your solicitor he will suggest you the same. You should bring your spouse to immigration for visa renewal on a mandatory basis.

I have read completely this post. I think the best thing for you is to ask your ex husband to go with you to the office. Try and make it out with him. You are too late now you must have informed the INIS about your situation long time ago.

I am also surprised that the solicitor did not take up your case. Try another one

knapps wrote:I have read completely this post. I think the best thing for you is to ask your ex husband to go with you to the office. Try and make it out with him. You are too late now you must have informed the INIS about your situation long time ago.

I am also surprised that the solicitor did not take up your case. Try another one

Hi knapp

You are right. She should go with her Ex husband. I think don't have an option left out.
And coming to solicitors they will take up cases that are favourable for winning even they have to bind to some countries immigration rules and regulations.

maxtor wrote:

knapps wrote:I have read completely this post. I think the best thing for you is to ask your ex husband to go with you to the office. Try and make it out with him. You are too late now you must have informed the INIS about your situation long time ago.

I am also surprised that the solicitor did not take up your case. Try another one

Hi knapp

You are right. She should go with her Ex husband. I think don't have an option left out.
And coming to solicitors they will take up cases that are favourable for winning even they have to bind to some countries immigration rules and regulations.

Thanks guys for all the concern and advice.

Just to clear things out..the solicitor wanted to take my case provided I pay 750 euros..I paid 100 euros already for just going there and they told me things I already knew or not replying to my queries. There was not any encouragement whatsoever on the solicitor's side (on top of that they asked me for 750 euros)..so instead of having a better idea what to do after seeing them, I ended up completely confused.

Taking my exhusband with me is not an option..as even if he wants to, the mother of his children wouldn't allow him. Anyway I'm not in touch with him but yes to answer some of you guys..he is definitely here. I can't prove he's been working the whole time as he would have all the details of his job and I wouldn't have a clue. I heard his friend once said he is still working at the same place as he was before.

My relationship with my bf is going on 3 yrs now. We have all the relevant details to prove..for example details of hols we took together, lease agreement + bills.

A friend of my boyfriend who's working in a private office, who deals with situation like myself adv me that the worse case scenario would be that I could get the stamp 1 for at least a year then it'll go back to the stamp 4. He adv me to send the letter (with his help) and then he'll try to get me an extension while waiting for a response. I'm going to probably go down that road.

Any more ideas or info please let me knw.

Thanks a mill to all.

Moritz

Hi I am in the same situation as you Moritz, I got GNIB card for 3 years out of five as mentioned on the letter from department of justice. My GNIB card is about to expire, I went to immigration they refused to extend it for another 2years because I am separated from my wife and she refused to go with me or help me. The immigration officer asked me to write letter to EU treaty right.. don't know what to do? Could you tell me please how did you sorted it out..
Thanks
Sam,