Tax issue

I have been following this type of thread and want to ask a doubt:
what is the the visa year and the tax year are different :

for example:

Visa is august 2012- july 2013,, got points for 30 k from HO for self employment income
this falls in 2 tax year 2012-2013 and tax year 2013-2014.
if the tax was filled for 2012-2013 is about 21k and tax filled for 2013-2014 is about 10k.

adding up it is more than 30 k which was shown to HO.

My question:
adding up the invoice from aug2012 till april 2013 is about 20k and adding up invoice from april 2013 to july 2013 is 11k for example.
can HO ask question about the tax year 2013-2014 that the invoice total was 11k and why tax was filled for 10 k ?
can they differentiate?
or they are just going to add the declared the selfemployment income from 2 tax year to see that it is equivalent or more than the declared amount while the extension was granted?

Any experience , suggestion or reviews....
Members please give me your suggestion and reviews or experience ...
Gurus / members of standing ? Any comments

So are you saying you declared a higher figure for visa purposes than you actually earned? It's not clear from your post.

what my doubt is:

while going for extension the the period shown to home office was :
Home office :
august 2012- july 2013( Ho)
points was awarded for 30 k during that period from august 2012 to july 2013.

HMRC:
Now while filling the tax for the period august 2012- july 2013 falls in two tax years for HMRC i.e april 2012-april2013 and april 2013-april 2014.
for tax year april 2012-april 2013 the tax was filled for 20k( to HMRC)
for tax year april 2013-april 2014 the tax was filled for 11k( to HMRC)

Doubt:
if i add the self employment income for the 2 tax period it is 31 k which is more than 30 k which was claimed at HO to get points.
By breaking down the invoices to 2 tax year:

But when i see if i add my invoices from august 2012 to april 2013 it is about 18 k ... so thats ok as i had filled tax to HMRC for tax year april 2012- april 2013 is 20k

now when i add the invoices from april 2013-july 2013 it is about 12 k ... but i have filled tax to hmrc for tax year april 2013-april 2014 is 11k as there was expenditue ... This is where my doubt is .... will HO ask me why I have filled 11 k when the invoce total is 12k by breaking down into 2 tax year?
Can they do that ?

what I am asking is will HO break down the income into two tax year to see what tax was filled in respective tax year or they will see that it falls in two tax year and will just add the profit claimed to HMRC in 2 tax year to see if thats more /less than the total HO claim amount?

i think they cant differentiate as my HO claim income falls in 2 HMRC tax year and if profit added which was declared to HMRC in 2 tax year is more than the HO claim amount.

please comment I am stressed

No one knows what the HO case worker will see , since the extension is past now, they will see whatever income in a tax period say

e.g

April 6th 2012 - April 5th 2013 - 20K was shown to them whether the tax and NI (class2)OR, class 1A from payslips has been declared correctly to HMRC or not.

in your case if the income falls in two tax years total income for that year 2012/13 if 20K whether the same deductions shown has been paid to HMRC or not - IF shown to HO
For the 2013/14 - total taxable income is 10 or 11K whether the same deductions shown has been paid to HMRC or not - If shown to HO

Ans is simple.

If you have shown 31K in two tax years, HO is interested whether tax and NI is paid for those 2 years period!

And the final ans is

Yes. HO has authority to request this information for HMRC when in doubt and if something is not right or clear yor case may be deferred or delayed or passed to a senior officer.

thank you for the reply argus7
I understand that nobody knows how they see it.
What I am trying to figure out is :
My points have come from self employment income from august2012-July2013. Which was 30 k.
Tax have been filled for HMRC for tax year 2013-13 and 2013-14 which was 20k and 11 k respectively and completely paid.

what I am trying to figure out and this might help other members as well if we can get and answer is.
HO claim period is between 2 HMRC tax year and the self employment income have expenditure so while coming to checking whether the tax is paid or not... how HO will look at the tax figure.

1. the HO claim period fall is 2 HMRC tax year will they just add the Declared profit to HMRC in 2 years and add to see if thats more/less than the claim amount to them?

2. Or will they break the invoice form august 2012 to april 2013 and check aginst the claimed tax for HMRC tax period 2012-13
and add the invoice from april 2013-july 2013 and will see the tax filled in tax year HMRC 2013-14..

( I think thats not possible as the expenditure is spread from august 2012-july 2013 while claiming the points how can they different to get a profit figure from august 2012-april 2013 and from april 2013-july 2013...
as while claiming point it was from august 2012-july 2013 which was income minus expenditure... and the person could have all the expenditure from april 2012-july2013 form the claimed income....for example)


Any accountant/solicitor/guru/members have any review ?

I have no clue about how fix your past tax related problems but as a fellow member here i can 100% confirm to you that i went to PEO for my ILR, and came across two tier 1 G cases who were refused ILR because of previous tax issues.

Make sure everything is on track

All the very best!

Based on my experience I can say that home office do have a view of taxable income every year. Why don't you request for your SA-302 for last 4 years and check what it is in HMRC records.

If you are saying you showed home office a income of 12K(second year) and declared only 11K(to HMRC) as income reversing the difference as expense then you should be worried..!

tatetate wrote:I have no clue about how fix your past tax related problems but as a fellow member here i can 100% confirm to you that i went to PEO for my ILR, and came across two tier 1 G cases who were refused ILR because of previous tax issues.

Make sure everything is on track

All the very best!

Which peo did this happen? I am just wondering how you found out that 2 people were refused for tax reasons, because I have been to peo several times, you hardly know what is going on with other people or what they applied for

Hi,
I second to Jayna over here. Below is from 'tatetate' another post on Sunday 12/07/2015 in which he mentioned that he is going to apply tomorrow i.e. Monday 13/07/2015 by post. How come that suddenly changed into a PEO appointment in one day and ILR approved as well.
Atleast, does not makes sense to me!

Re: ILR SETO Spouse + Child
Postby tatetate » Sun Jul 12, 2015 12:52 pm

CR001 wrote:
When does the childs Tier 1 Dependent visa expire?


Dear CR.

Can you please confirm if i need any sort of assesment calculator for ILR SETO, as i cant find one,

I have had both my Degrees Bsc and Msc from UK and they were declared and shown in Previous Tier 1 G applications.

Sadly Tier 1 G is no more there so i cant find point based calculator.

I know its weekend but if anyone sees this before tom morning as i am sending my files via post tom.

Thanks in advance.

bond.boy203 wrote:Based on my experience I can say that home office do have a view of taxable income every year. Why don't you request for your SA-302 for last 4 years and check what it is in HMRC records.

If you are saying you showed home office a income of 12K(second year) and declared only 11K(to HMRC) as income reversing the difference as expense then you should be worried..!

12k is only the invoice total which falls in 2nd HMRC Finiancial year . 12 K also have expenditure as a business can't run without expenditure .., so for that Finiancial year it was 11k after expenditure to HMRC as the business have run even after I got the visa .

The previous year the invoice total was 18k which off course have expenditure too but there was previous invoices too so the profit claimed to HMRC was 20 k after expenditure .


Now if I add the income I showed to HO which falls in 2 HMRC Finiancial year it's 30K and tax was filled for 31K to HMRC over the 2 Finiancial year .

Even though more tax have been paid over 2 year to HMRC , what I am asking is : can HO break the income claimed to them into 2 tax year , if they do how can they differentiate when the expenditure happened .. For example the expenditure shown to them is about 1k it could easily happen in the 2nd HMRC Finiancial year so 11K profits is shown to HMRC in 2nd year when the invoice total was 12K ..,,


Are u getting what I am asking bond.boy

Hi rpsarangi,
To make it simple if your are self-employed self assessment will be calculated April-April each year. But for HO you can claim earnings for 12 consecutive months earnings with in last 15 months, so your earning can fall into two tax years. According to my knowledge case worker can compare those two year's SA302 and calculate the total earnings against the tax you paid.

Thanks romeo007 for your reply:
I have trying to make the same point that you have said in this thread. When the HO net profit falls in 2 HMRC financial year , I think HO caseworker will take the 2 finiancial year HMRC SA302 to add the income claimed to HMRC to match that if that matches with the claimed income to the HO but they cant break down the income into 2 tax year as the income claimed to them have expenditures and they cant differentiate when the expenditure have happened.
Correct me if I am wrong.

Yes they can't break down the expenses,but they may raise a point when your net income decreases. For example lets assume you are showing 30k as your earnings and claiming 20 points later when you file the tax return you have had few additional expenses of 2K now your net income will be 28 K not 30 K so technically you cant claim that 20 points. In the account world its justifiable but from H.O 's point of view I don't know whether it comes under deception..

hi romeo007 thanks for the reply.
I understand what you are saying and will use your example to explain my point..
If you claim 30K to HO as net profit and Fill tax for 28K to HMRC that might be classed as deception according to HO.

But if that 30k falls in 2-HMRC tax years and the Net profit for 1st HMRC tax year was suppose 22K and the next year net profit for the 2nd HMRC tax year was 10K... so my adding the net profit which was claimed to HMRC is 32K which is more than than the claimed net profit to HO ....I think then all should be ok...

WHAT I HAVE BEEN ASKING FROM THE ABOVE IS WILL HO BREAK THE INVOCES INTO 2 TAX YEAR ? IF THEY TRY TO DO THAT THEN HOW CAN THEY JUSTIFY THE EXPENDITURE WHICH FALLS IN 2 HMRC TAX YEARS... AS THE EXPENDITURE COULD BE AT ANY TIME THROUGH THE CLAIMED PERIOD AND CANT BE JUSTIFIED WHEN ....

WHAT I AM SAYING IS AS LONG AS THE THE ADDED NET INCOME FOR 2 hmrc TAX YEAR IS MORE THAN OR EQUIVALENT TO THE HO NET INCOME AS THAT FALLS IN BETWEEN TO hmrc TAX YEAR,, I HOPE THAT SHOULD BE OK.?

Well a sensible case worker would get the SA302 for both years and compare the total income and paid tax and cross check with HO records for the period which you have claimed the points for earnings. Your case is pretty straight forward. If you can get all past 5 yrs SA302 from HMRC attach it with the ILR application to make case worker's life easy.

I think HO will be more concerned about your income in the specified 12 months you claimed while getting extension. They get data from HMRC as per their requirement for verification of previous records.
Now it will depend upon your luck what type of caseworker you get a time of ILR. If goes for details then your income is 18k+ 11k but if seen superficially it may look 20k-11k. your fear has some basis if they focus on the pointed income between August 12 to July 13 as claimed by you, they find it !8k+11k.
Let us hope for best but try to have sound explanation for the discrepency.

@4joe
I hope you have understood what I my worry is .
In your mentioned reply. As it falls in 2 tax year .. the caseworker will have to add my claimed HO income claimed during extension which falls in 2 tax year and the declared HMRC income in those 2 tax year , which is more than the claimed HO income for the 2 year as its a ongoing business and it went on even after the visa was granted. I will attach all the 5 years SA302 and self-employment history from HMRC so that the case worker should see a stability of the self-employment and the tax is paid regular too.

You are right.Chill and have confidence. You can explain things.Stop worrying.

@4joe
thanks ... These things does make worry .. but will try to be confident and will trust in GOD.
thanks.