New citizenship form UKF

Hi guys. So I posted recently saying I applied in South Africa, and received my documents and biometrics notice back within a month of the ceremony fee being deducted. Some advice on getting documents back quickly, is to contact your British consulate in the country you are applying from and ask them to assist in getting your documents back. My consulate contacted the home office directly and I think this assisted in getting things moving. They also seemed more keen to assist once I had told them that my ceremony fee had already been deducted. Worth a try for those needing documents back asap.

JJL wrote:Hi guys. So I posted recently saying I applied in South Africa, and received my documents and biometrics notice back within a month of the ceremony fee being deducted. Some advice on getting documents back quickly, is to contact your British consulate in the country you are applying from and ask them to assist in getting your documents back. My consulate contacted the home office directly and I think this assisted in getting things moving. They also seemed more keen to assist once I had told them that my ceremony fee had already been deducted. Worth a try for those needing documents back asap.

Whooooaaaaa- very interesting! Thanks for the advice, JJL.

Can I ask about the practical steps involved in that? How soon after the ceremony fee being taken did you contact your local Brit Consulate? And what did you say exactly? Were they familiar with the UKF?

Thanks again for that insight.

Hi does anyone know if u need to send passports as well as the birth cert ? I don't have a passport due to me having no nationality and my father does not have a passport or his old expired one since its been a while he left the country. I only sent them off with full birth certs.

Anyone know if this is enough evidence ?

My apologies if this has been addressed already, but I couldn't find an answer. In Section 2 of the UKF Guide, does anyone have any clarification on what "You can provide other evidence that is sufficient to establish paternity." means? My father is not named on my birth certificate and getting a DNA test will be a bit of a challenge. Thanks!

Ceelocsta wrote:Hi does anyone know if u need to send passports as well as the birth cert ? I don't have a passport due to me having no nationality and my father does not have a passport or his old expired one since its been a while he left the country. I only sent them off with full birth certs.

Anyone know if this is enough evidence ?

Yes, you need to send your passport as part of the new laws passed in April.

@ canbrit

So on the UK.Gov website there is a page entitled "Get your visa, immigration or citizenship documents back". https://www.gov.uk/visa-documents-returned

It then provides the option of selecting whether you are applying in or outside the UK. Naturally you would select the latter option. It then provides a list of countries. Select the county of application and it will take you to a visa application centre (ignore the fact that it says visa application). After some digging I managed to find contact details. I called and was given the email address of the South African consulate. I emailed them and within a week of emailing them, I received an email from the Home Office saying that my documents had been sent. They also provided me with a tracking number to locate my parcel. I must have done this not even 2 weeks after my ceremony fee was deducted.

From some of the horror stories I have read on this forum I am very fortunate to say that everything has gone smoothly up to this stage.

I hope this helps.

bfrenchfry wrote:

Ceelocsta wrote:Hi does anyone know if u need to send passports as well as the birth cert ? I don't have a passport due to me having no nationality and my father does not have a passport or his old expired one since its been a while he left the country. I only sent them off with full birth certs.

Anyone know if this is enough evidence ?

Yes, you need to send your passport as part of the new laws passed in April.

But I'm born in the UK and have no passport never been able to leave the country and not everyone has passports. So how am i supposed send them my passport if I have no nationality? this is the whole point of me getting one. My father is British and my mother is Jamaican. My father has not had a passport for a while but I have his full birth cert. Is this not enough?

Ceelocsta wrote:

bfrenchfry wrote:

Ceelocsta wrote:Hi does anyone know if u need to send passports as well as the birth cert ? I don't have a passport due to me having no nationality and my father does not have a passport or his old expired one since its been a while he left the country. I only sent them off with full birth certs.

Anyone know if this is enough evidence ?

Yes, you need to send your passport as part of the new laws passed in April.

But I'm born in the UK and have no passport never been able to leave the country and not everyone has passports. So how am i supposed send them my passport if I have no nationality? this is the whole point of me getting one. My father is British and my mother is Jamaican. My father has not had a passport for a while but I have his full birth cert. Is this not enough?

If you were born in the UK and have never left you are either automatically a citizen or would be naturalizing. UKF and UKM forms are for those of us born outside of the UK to British fathers or mothers.
Perhaps this page can help?
https://www.gov.uk/becoming-a-british-citizen

Ceelocsta wrote:

bfrenchfry wrote:

Ceelocsta wrote:Hi does anyone know if u need to send passports as well as the birth cert ? I don't have a passport due to me having no nationality and my father does not have a passport or his old expired one since its been a while he left the country. I only sent them off with full birth certs.

Anyone know if this is enough evidence ?

Yes, you need to send your passport as part of the new laws passed in April.

But I'm born in the UK and have no passport never been able to leave the country and not everyone has passports. So how am i supposed send them my passport if I have no nationality? this is the whole point of me getting one. My father is British and my mother is Jamaican. My father has not had a passport for a while but I have his full birth cert. Is this not enough?

Hi Ceelocsta.
You can only send what you have. Did you write a cover-letter explaining your situation? In cases like this a cover-letter normally helps the officer dealing with the case to have a better understanding and know why the documents needed are not with the application.

Hi SK
No I assumed they know these things happen, its only been 2 weeks so what shall I do ? Send a cover letter still or wait for them to ask for more documents then explain ? Thanks for the advise SK

Ceelocsta - I think that the suggestion of bfrenchfry has merit.

If you were born in Britain before 1983, you are already a British citizen and need only apply for a passport. If you were born after 1983, that is not the case (absolute jus soli was abolished) but have a look at this:
https://www.gov.uk/register-british-citizen

Particularly, read the sections "Born in the UK after 1983" and "Stateless people" (and specifically the bits about being born in Britain after 1983 - form and guidance S3).

This may be a stupid question, but aren't you a Jamaican citizen through your mother? I apologise if this is a hurtful question: I know all about hurtful citizenship questions from people interrogating me all my life (with peculiar doggedness) about why I wasn't a British citizen when I was clearly a native speaker of British English, my father was unambiguously Scots, and his other children got British passports without having to fight for them. I'm asking because you may be able to get a Jamaican passport and then send that in.

And JJL: how did you obtain the email address of your consulate? The British consulates in the USA (where I live) all provide no email addresses, and furthermore they refuse to see anyone without an appointment, their phone numbers only have recorded messages telling us to visit their website and make an appointment in order to be allowed into the building, and the appointment-making system of their website is of course broken and won't let anyone make an appointment. (Their purpose is, as far as I can discern, to avoid performing any work or, heaven forfend, helping anyone). How exactly did you obtain this email address - did you have to make an account in that visa processing centre website and then go through the whole (fake) visa application process just to get the email address?

Born after 1983 to unmarried British father which makes me not British regards of where I was born so I come under 4g

Antsmall wrote:Ceelocsta - I think that the suggestion of bfrenchfry has merit.

If you were born in Britain before 1983, you are already a British citizen and need only apply for a passport. If you were born after 1983, that is not the case (absolute jus soli was abolished) but have a look at this:
https://www.gov.uk/register-british-citizen

Particularly, read the sections "Born in the UK after 1983" and "Stateless people" (and specifically the bits about being born in Britain after 1983 - form and guidance S3).

This may be a stupid question, but aren't you a Jamaican citizen through your mother? I apologise if this is a hurtful question: I know all about hurtful citizenship questions from people interrogating me all my life (with peculiar doggedness) about why I wasn't a British citizen when I was clearly a native speaker of British English, my father was unambiguously Scots, and his other children got British passports without having to fight for them. I'm asking because you may be able to get a Jamaican passport and then send that in.

And JJL: how did you obtain the email address of your consulate? The British consulates in the USA (where I live) all provide no email addresses, and furthermore they refuse to see anyone without an appointment, their phone numbers only have recorded messages telling us to visit their website and make an appointment in order to be allowed into the building, and the appointment-making system of their website is of course broken and won't let anyone make an appointment. (Their purpose is, as far as I can discern, to avoid performing any work or, heaven forfend, helping anyone). How exactly did you obtain this email address - did you have to make an account in that visa processing centre website and then go through the whole (bad quality) visa application process just to get the email address?

And yes I can get Jamaican citizenship but I will do that if this don't work

[

Yes, you need to send your passport as part of the new laws passed in April.[/quote]

But I'm born in the UK and have no passport never been able to leave the country and not everyone has passports. So how am i supposed send them my passport if I have no nationality? this is the whole point of me getting one. My father is British and my mother is Jamaican. My father has not had a passport for a while but I have his full birth cert. Is this not enough?[/quote]

If you were born in the UK and have never left you are either automatically a citizen or would be naturalizing. UKF and UKM forms are for those of us born outside of the UK to British fathers or mothers.
Perhaps this page can help?
https://www.gov.uk/becoming-a-british-citizen[/quote]

Why would I neutralise if I have a British father ?

but you said you was born after 1983 to unmarried britsh father so you're not British ...

You may be in a position to both naturalise and register.

One reason to choose naturalisation might be that it gives you one advantage: the ability to pass British citizenship to your children born abroad. As you may already know, British citizenship is either 'by descent' or 'otherwise than by descent'. If you are British by descent, i.e. only through your parent(s) and not by birth in Britain or naturalisation, then children that you bear abroad are not automatically British. Instead if you naturalise, your children born abroad are automatically British, but for one generation only, because again, they will be British by descent.

As far as I'm aware, all the UKF options (i.e. all the subsections of section 65 of the Immigration Act 2014) convey only citizenship by descent, even if the person was born in Britain. It's weird but it's how it is.

Registration seems to be a simpler procedure than naturalisation and also doesn't require you to fiddle about with "Life in the UK" tests and all that jazz. There are pros and cons to both options.

Antsmall wrote:You may be in a position to both naturalise and register.

One reason to choose naturalisation might be that it gives you one advantage: the ability to pass British citizenship to your children born abroad. As you may already know, British citizenship is either 'by descent' or 'otherwise than by descent'. If you are British by descent, i.e. only through your parent(s) and not by birth in Britain or naturalisation, then children that you bear abroad are not automatically British. Instead if you naturalise, your children born abroad are automatically British, but for one generation only, because again, they will be British by descent.

As far as I'm aware, all the UKF options (i.e. all the subsections of section 65 of the Immigration Act 2014) convey only citizenship by descent, even if the person was born in Britain. It's weird but it's how it is.

Registration seems to be a simpler procedure than naturalisation and also doesn't require you to fiddle about with "Life in the UK" tests and all that jazz. There are pros and cons to both options.

Yeah ukf is a cheaper option for me as I have no children, its just that I don't have a passport just a full UK brith cert.

You will be entitled to registration if:  you were born before 1 July 2006, and  your mother was not married to your natural father  you have never been a British citizen  you would have become a British citizen automatically if your parents had been married (see below), and  the Secretary of State is satisfied that you are of good character. The law has been written in this way to ensure that those who would have become British citizens automatically on 1 January 1983, if their parents had been married, now have an opportunity to become British citizens by registration. There is no registration option for people who would have become British Overseas citizens or British Dependent Territories citizens on 1 January 1983 had their parents been married and who, as a result, might now have had entitlements to British citizenship under other provisions. You can meet the fourth requirement above if: 1. You were born on or after 1 January 1983 and would have become a British citizen automatically had your parents been married at the time of your birth (section 4G of the British Nationality Act 1981), or 2. You were born before 1 January 1983 and were a citizen of the UK and Colonies on 31 December 1982 and would have become a British citizen automatically had your parents been married at the time of your birth (section 4H of the British Nationality Act 1981). 3. You were born before 1 January 1983 and would have become a British citizen on 1 January 1983 had your parents been married because:  You were a British subject before 1 January 1949, and would have automatically become a citizen of the United Kingdom and Colonies on that date had your parents been married at the time of your birth, or  You became a citizen of the United Kingdom and Colonies on or after 1 January 1949 and lost that status on the independence of a Commonwealth country, but would not have done had your parents been married.

How about getting a Jamaican passport and sending that in as your passport? The British citizenship authorities are very refractory and it may actually be easier to obtain and then send in a Jamaican passport than to try to reason with them. I'm not saying that it's easy to get a Jamaican passport (I've never done it and have no idea) but communicating with the Home Office is so annoying that acquiring a Jamaican passport might be less time-consuming and irritating than that. Yes, that is how slow and uncommunicative they are.

My other homeland is Italy, which is known for its convoluted bureaucracy; yet obtaining an Italian passport is a walk in the park (while holding a piece of cake - and eating it too) compared to getting a British one, even after having secured British citizenship. Italian bureaucracy is positively Kafkaesque but it lacks the utter impenetrability of what has now become the over-automatised, badly planned British bureaucracy. The Jamaican officials might be far more reasonable - and contactable. I speculate, but it might be worth a try. Who knows, the Jamaican consulate might actually allow you into the building! To meet a human! (The Italian consulate does, unlike the British one).

Is your father in a position to obtain a British passport which you can then send as well? For some reason the UKF procedure requires the father's passport, and the robot people might create problems otherwise.

Antsmall wrote:How about getting a Jamaican passport and sending that in as your passport? The British citizenship authorities are very refractory and it may actually be easier to obtain and then send in a Jamaican passport than to try to reason with them. I'm not saying that it's easy to get a Jamaican passport (I've never done it and have no idea) but communicating with the Home Office is so annoying that acquiring a Jamaican passport might be less time-consuming and irritating than that. Yes, that is how slow and uncommunicative they are.

My other homeland is Italy, which is known for its convoluted bureaucracy; yet obtaining an Italian passport is a walk in the park (while holding a piece of cake - and eating it too) compared to getting a British one, even after having secured British citizenship. Italian bureaucracy is positively Kafkaesque but it lacks the utter impenetrability of what has now become the over-automatised, badly planned British bureaucracy. The Jamaican officials might be far more reasonable - and contactable. I speculate, but it might be worth a try. Who knows, the Jamaican consulate might actually allow you into the building! To meet a human! (The Italian consulate does, unlike the British one).

Is your father in a position to obtain a British passport which you can then send as well? For some reason the UKF procedure requires the father's passport, and the robot people might create problems otherwise.

' Robot people' haha

Well, the only positive aspect of the robot people is that by their incessant roboticism they provide fodder for humour. Make us laugh, robot people. Now dance, dance, do your robotic dance for us!!

Antsmall wrote:How about getting a Jamaican passport and sending that in as your passport? The British citizenship authorities are very refractory and it may actually be easier to obtain and then send in a Jamaican passport than to try to reason with them. I'm not saying that it's easy to get a Jamaican passport (I've never done it and have no idea) but communicating with the Home Office is so annoying that acquiring a Jamaican passport might be less time-consuming and irritating than that. Yes, that is how slow and uncommunicative they are.

My other homeland is Italy, which is known for its convoluted bureaucracy; yet obtaining an Italian passport is a walk in the park (while holding a piece of cake - and eating it too) compared to getting a British one, even after having secured British citizenship. Italian bureaucracy is positively Kafkaesque but it lacks the utter impenetrability of what has now become the over-automatised, badly planned British bureaucracy. The Jamaican officials might be far more reasonable - and contactable. I speculate, but it might be worth a try. Who knows, the Jamaican consulate might actually allow you into the building! To meet a human! (The Italian consulate does, unlike the British one).

Is your father in a position to obtain a British passport which you can then send as well? For some reason the UKF procedure requires the father's passport, and the robot people might create problems otherwise.

Yeah I was thinking that but I was not sure because I thought it would interfere with the citizenship. My dads looking for his expired passport and if he can't find it he's gonna get a new one

It won't interfere with your citizenship. Already holding another citizenship doesn't prevent acquisition of British citizenship. Furthermore, the fact that they ask for your existing passport implies that they expect you to have a non-British citizenship already.

Yes, it is a good idea for your father to locate and send you his expired passport or, if that proves impossible, obtain a new (British) passport and send it to you. These are the rules of the robot people. They create problems anyway, even when applicants give them nothing weird at all, so it's probably best if we present them with as few departures from their expected model as possible. They want to tick boxes.

Antsmall wrote:It won't interfere with your citizenship. Already holding another citizenship doesn't prevent acquisition of British citizenship. Furthermore, the fact that they ask for your existing passport implies that they expect you to have a non-British citizenship already.

Yes, it is a good idea for your father to locate and send you his expired passport or, if that proves impossible, obtain a new (British) passport and send it to you. These are the rules of the robot people. They create problems anyway, even when applicants give them nothing weird at all, so it's probably best if we present them with as few departures from their expected model as possible. They want to tick boxes.

I sent the form off without the passports so let's see what happens, I also emailed them about the situation regarding this

Hmm. Well, in that case I guess it makes sense for you to wait until they reply to your email or demand additional documents, preferably providing some sort of reference number so they can match up your new documents with your existing application and other materials. Otherwise they might get confused and you could end up waiting even longer! But in the meantime I'd suggest getting started on your Jamaican passport and your father's passport while you wait for our Vogon friends to make the next move.