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Where are you reading about this exception to the 2 year cap? I think you may have misunderstood. The cap is 2 years for courses below degree level, with no exceptions. It can be 2 years and 11 months under some circumstances, but as you have had 2 years already, that would not be enough time for your plan anyway.jammy101 wrote:I understand new rules came into force in Novemeber 2015, which states that student cannot carry on the same level for more then 2 years, except it linked to previous course.
OP's proposed plan will not be possible under the 2-year cap anyway, so the issue of Academic Progression is irrelevant.keysersoze22 wrote:If you are given entry and a visa to a new level 3 course, it must demonstrate academic progression for yourself. However, sponsors have to demonstrate this with a considerable amount of an audit trail, as not demonstrating academic progression in assigning a CAS is now constituted as a serious compliance breach for UKVI. So good luck.
Yes. The 2-year cap is for all study below degree level, whatever it's number level. You appear to think that the cap is ignored if there is academic progression, but it is not.jammy101 wrote:ok heres another thing I am confused about, so student cannot spend more then two years studying below degree level right, so does studying a 4 course from level 3 course not count as academic progression?
No. You have already used up your 2-year cap on Tier 4 studies below degree level.jammy101 wrote:hmm ok, so can the student go back to home country and re-apply for a new visa to study same level? thanks
They can certainly issue a CAS before she gets her results, but it would not confirm academic progression, and therefore it could only be used for a Tier 4 application in her home country. This is confirmed in the Tier 4 Policy Guidance, para 56:dannsh13 wrote:She is being told by the schools VISA people that she cannot take the second masters course until she has successfully completed her first masters course. Now she will be done in August, but the rewards are not given until November. They say she cannot get a CAS for the next course until then which is too late.
How does is this apply and does this change the way this process works?dannsh13 wrote:I would call this a "Catch 22". It Effectively means she will not start the next masters due to the U of Bradford slowness to award the degree. The rule just seems plan stupid and the Universities are going to loose income. So she comes home and has to wait a year before coming back. That lowers the odds of her returning for the second masters. I cannot believe there is not a way to make things work. Illogical. The hc877 seems to indicate that would be possible. I must be to logical for this legalese. What is going to happen After April 6, 2016??
You can see my confusion?keysersoze22 wrote:I know from personal experience that your daughter will have to wait until her results are confirmed to apply in-country (as sah10406 has stated), as these will have to be declared on the CAS.
I also know from personal experience that the University may take action through an internal process (some call them a Chair's Action) to validate the degree faster to meet with certain deadlines.
That may be your best option. Failing that, applying in the home country would be the only option left available, as any sponsor would ask what your daughter has done in the UK and would not be able to justify an in-country CAS application on the basis of pending results. What you cite won't change the circumstances - until the results are confirmed and validated, your daughter's degree is not complete and therefore cannot be used to justify a new application. Your citation is in regards to actually taking the new masters to compliment the old Masters, in which you've stated previously would be a correct move for your daughter.
I'll borrow one of Sah10406's quotes here - ask your daughter to speak to your University's International Student Advisors and mention the possibility of Chair's Action (or the University's process equivilent).
I have no idea what a "Chair Action" is, but in order to know all her options she needs to know the following:dannsh13 wrote:Ok so she needs the University’s International Student advisors to do a “Chair Action” and the sponsor do a CAS stating that her current course is related to the next course and in combination support her genuine career?
sah10406 wrote:I have no idea what a "Chair Action" is, but in order to know all her options she needs to know the following:dannsh13 wrote:Ok so she needs the University’s International Student advisors to do a “Chair Action” and the sponsor do a CAS stating that her current course is related to the next course and in combination support her genuine career?
(a) What is the soonest date she could travel after finishing all her requirements of the first course?
(b) What is the earliest possible date she can get the result of the first course?
(c) What is the last possible date she can enrol on the second course?
plus
(d) In theory, if she has her result, does the sponsor consider the second course to show academic progress on the first course, with them being at the same level?
If date (b) is before or the same day as date (c), and the answer to (d) is Yes, she can get a CAS for a Tier 4 application in the UK, and enrol on the new course after she has made the Tier 4 application.
If date (b) is after date (c), and/or if the answer to (d) is No, she will need to apply in her home country because she can only get a CAS without academic progress. There would need to be enough time between date (a) and date (c) to go home, get the visa, and come back and enrol.
If neither of those are possible, she would need to defer the start of the second course.
It very rarely comes up. It would only happen in this specific rare scenario, where someone wants to start a second 12-month Masters immediately after finishing a first one. In all other situations, there are a few months between the end of one course and the start of another.dannsh13 wrote:How are the University’s dealing with this process?
No, on the contrary it is putting into the Rules what was previously only in guidance. But as I have said several times, it is not the new course being at the same level that is preventing her from getting a CAS for an application in the UK. It is the fact that she will not have successfully completed her previous course.dannsh13 wrote:Could the be interpreted to over rule the older rules?
So the “unless statement” does negate the “successfully completed”.sah10406 wrote:No, on the contrary it is putting into the Rules what was previously only in guidance. But as I have said several times, it is not the new course being at the same level that is preventing her from getting a CAS for an application in the UK. It is the fact that she will not have successfully completed her previous course.dannsh13 wrote:Could the be interpreted to over rule the older rules?
No.dannsh13 wrote:So the “unless statement” does negate the “successfully completed”.
No. Their hands are tied because she will not have her result in time.dannsh13 wrote:Is it up to the sponsor to take the torch and fight to get her the Visa for the next course?
That could only happen if she somehow gets the result of the first course in time to get a CAS to join the second course. See my timeline in a previous post.dannsh13 wrote:I will not stop and hope she can get things worked out at the school. Here big problem is she will be completing her course in August and the next course starts in September.