cheapes-quickest self suffiency resident card in EU

jul1 wrote:yes i read that already.

My embassy told me we can apply for the resident card for my wife without me moving home permanently (im still working in Ireland), local immigration rules allow me to claim self-sufficiency (with permanent address, full health insurance) to get the resident card there, it wont be of course article 10 card, but than she can have government issued proof of address and we can open joint bank account.
If that gives much better chances i want to rather try the ferry with those papers than just marriage cert and schengen visa, if you know what i mean.
Of course i really dont want to quit my job only if really necessary.

We are waiting for the registration of the marriage cert in my country which takes months anyway. I cannot get an apostille stamp on our original marriage cert cause her country where we married is not in the apostille convention. At he border afaik we have to show apostille stamped marrige cert.

Please bare with me If we can find a sure way to enter Ireland it can help thousands of people stuck in that damn visa queue.

You should understand types of visas permissible to enter a memberstate from the EU document.

I doubt you will get a RC in a.n.other member state on a weekend or other short trip and by depositing 10,000 Euro somewhere.
If you want a RC from some other country you need to be there.

It is already known someone can enter a memberstate with (or to join) a Union citizen sponsor by presenting themselves at the border (with or without an Article 10 card from another memberstate).

Why don't you apply for UK FP ? If you are in possession of UK FP, you can come to UK and drive to Ireland via Belfast without any issue. The success chances in this are really high and you would be in Ireland without much of pain.

i asked twice my embassy they confirmed i dont have to move home to get her resident card in my own country. To apply we have to show either im working there or enough savings ( i sent home all my savings before anyway, but they said they just want to see the current amount , not 6-12 months prior, but that would be fine too), full health insurance (about 50eur/ month private), future address with ownership cert, permanent address, we have a so called address card, not like in Ireland that you have to show recent bills in your name, that address card is valid with no time limit and is accepted and asked for all the time by authorities.

I actually called my local town immigration office where we could apply and they confirmed all the required docs.

I have the application for local RC form which seems straight forward and seems we have all the docs required, but it takes 2-3 months to issue. Local immigration rules clearly say that non-eu spouse of own citizens can claim self sufficiency, which is just as generous as the EU directive says when you are residing in a eu country where you are not citizen. There are huge differences between local immigration rules, my country seem to have a much relaxed one, or more permitting one.
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So far i did not want to apply for UK FP cause our visa is still running in Ireland based on eu treaty rights, Ireland and UK cross checks visa applications, and i thought i would be declined anyway cause they see that after 5 months there is no decision on our visa and they think we want to enter backdoor to Ireland, than they would inform Irish visa office about this too. My wife never had a declined visa ever in any country.

I read about a guy here, where he got the Irish eufam RC, than it was cancelled cause Ireland came to know that the eu spouse got a job in the meantime in UK, they figured it by themselves so Irish and UK checks and confirms information between each other.

jul1 wrote:i asked twice my embassy they confirmed i dont have to move home to get her resident card in my own country. To apply we have to show either im working there or enough savings ( i sent home all my savings before anyway, but they said they just want to see the current amount , not 6-12 months prior, but that would be fine too), full health insurance (about 50eur/ month private), future address with ownership cert, permanent address, we have a so called address card, not like in Ireland that you have to show recent bills in your name, that address card is valid with no time limit and is accepted and asked for all the time by authorities.

I actually called my local town immigration office where we could apply and they confirmed all the required docs.

I have the application for local RC form which seems straight forward and seems we have all the docs required, but it takes 2-3 months to issue. Local immigration rules clearly say that non-eu spouse of own citizens can claim self sufficiency, which is just as generous as the EU directive says when you are residing in a eu country where you are not citizen. There are huge differences between local immigration rules, my country seem to have a much relaxed one, or more permitting one.
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So far i did not want to apply for UK FP cause our visa is still running in Ireland based on eu treaty rights, Ireland and UK cross checks visa applications, and i thought i would be declined anyway cause they see that after 5 months there is no decision on our visa and they think we want to enter backdoor to Ireland, than they would inform Irish visa office about this too. My wife never had a declined visa ever in any country.

I read about a guy here, where he got the Irish eufam RC, than it was cancelled cause Ireland came to know that the eu spouse got a job in the meantime in UK, they figured it by themselves so Irish and UK checks and confirms information between each other.

What country are you talking about and do you mean a domestic residence card of some sort?
How will that help?

Ofcourse UK and Eire share data, they are in the CTA apart from anything else.

... just one part of a joint programme of work aimed at strengthening both countries’ borders. Other projects include closer working on visa policies and processes, facilitating greater pre-entry and entry checks and sharing watch-list information and passenger data.

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/hist ... eal-signed

Its hard to understand why you seem to be pussyfooting around and somewhat intimidated by UK and/or Irish migration procedures.
A UK FP can still be used for a visit to UK so your understanding of the purpose of FPs is somewhat flawed

Also, a job in UK shouldn't result into cancellation of Irish resident card unless the person in question misrepresented himself in Ireland and provided false economical documents related to Ireland job.

yes it is a domestic card, with 5 years validity and no permission to work, but that would be enough for us. If they dont want to give that not a biggie, but than she has to go home to get another schengen visa, and she doesnt have to obey 90/180 schengen rules, she can come back right away, that is confirmed too by my embassy...i dunno now i start to think maybe my embassy dont know the rules....? but so far they handled and legalized all our documents so i trust them, there was no issue with them so far, the are really helpful replying all my questions, which was a lot

I never applied for UK FP before so indeed maybe im wrong about this...
Especially after vote for brexit UK, i did not want to risk a decline.

jul1 wrote:yes it is a domestic card, with 5 years validity and no permission to work, but that would be enough for us. If they dont want to give that not a biggie, but than she has to go home to get another schengen visa, and she doesnt have to obey 90/180 schengen rules, she can come back right away, that is confirmed too by my embassy...i dunno now i start to think maybe my embassy dont know the rules....? but so far they handled and legalized all our documents so i trust them, there was no issue with them so far, the are really helpful replying all my questions, which was a lot

I never applied for UK FP before so indeed maybe im wrong about this...
Especially after vote for brexit UK, i did not want to risk a decline.

So is that a domestic Malta, Spain or Bulgaria card? (You seem to have been looking at those countries).
And if it is a domestic card of some sort how does it help with entering Ireland?

All your spouse needs is passport, marriage certificate, copy of Directive and a smile.
You don't need to spend weeks agonising about it and/or months traipsing around Europe.

zahmed05 wrote:Also, a job in UK shouldn't result into cancellation of Irish resident card unless the person in question misrepresented himself in Ireland and provided false economical documents related to Ireland job.

In that case eu sposue was working in Ireland, residing with non-eu sposue, they got the eu4fam irish card but than eu spouse moved to uk, got a legal job. Of course you dont have the right to reside anymore if the eu spouse left Ireland. So they were right to cancel the irish RC, but they figured it out by themselves so i assume they pretty effective in sharing information.

noajthan wrote:

jul1 wrote:yes it is a domestic card, with 5 years validity and no permission to work, but that would be enough for us. If they dont want to give that not a biggie, but than she has to go home to get another schengen visa, and she doesnt have to obey 90/180 schengen rules, she can come back right away, that is confirmed too by my embassy...i dunno now i start to think maybe my embassy dont know the rules....? but so far they handled and legalized all our documents so i trust them, there was no issue with them so far, the are really helpful replying all my questions, which was a lot

I never applied for UK FP before so indeed maybe im wrong about this...
Especially after vote for brexit UK, i did not want to risk a decline.

So is that a domestic Malta, Spain or Bulgaria card? (You seem to have been looking at those countries).
And if it is a domestic card of some sort how does it help with entering Ireland?

All your spouse needs is passport, marriage certificate, copy of Directive and a smile.
You don't need to spend weeks agonising about it and/or months traipsing around Europe.

The idea was that with all those, local RC, address card, maybe bank accounts t, we will have better chance to argue immigration at the border. I read that whole travelling without visa topic, and whoever had a success they all had something other than a schengen visa for 90 days, like ILR, ILE, many stamps in their passport, my wife was traveling before a lot but she doesnt have the old passport anymore.
And i dont see the recent success stories anywhere to come on a ferry just like this, im the only one who wants to try it or they just dont read this forum...

jul1 wrote:And i dont see the recent success stories anywhere to come on a ferry just like this, im the only one who wants to try it or they just dont read this forum...

Members are sharing their experience of entry under auspices of EEA Dependent (previously Code 1A) stamp.
Just search the forum...

http://www.immigrationboards.com/eea-ro ... p#p1244532

http://www.immigrationboards.com/eea-ro ... p#p1268972

http://www.immigrationboards.com/eea-ro ... p#p1268089

http://www.immigrationboards.com/eea-ro ... p#p1295593

ok i see it now, most success is from Calais to Dover on ferry.

Some were:
-detained 4-7 hours, interviewed for 1 hour
-when told the truth they want to settle/apply for RC were declined but next day saying they will leave UK in 2 weeks stamped in
-need proof of relationship

As i mentioned earlier we did not reside together yet only we have visit stamps, we wanted to start our life in Ireland, that is why i came up with the idea to move to lets say Spain, rent together, get the article 10 card.

In their system we will be clear, like no previous refusal of any kind, she never applied for UK or Schengen visa before but earlier she had 3 accepted visitor visa to Ireland (some many years ago, family visit), the visas were granted for the first try, never had to appeal (that is another reason im very disappointed that our eu treaty rights visa is stuck, if i knew that i would never mention those rights, just apply as tourist...)

If at the border we told the truth that we want to settle we have a higher chance for refusal, but will we start pretending as tourists...?
Can they see in the computer that our visa is still running, and that im employed in Ireland? If yes than not worth to BS-ing.
Better chance to go directly to Ireland or trough UK? (i think UK is much stricter in general)

also, some one mentioned that to be able to get stamp they have to show up Calais or Brussels eurostar to actually face UK immigration, if we go from a place far from UK we dont even have a chance to get a stamp from them as we would not be let on the ferry (like spain - uk ferry)
What is the story at Cherbourg or Roscoff? Will i meet Irish immigration there or French only?
Do i have to translate the original English marriage cert and legalised by french embassy or they hav eto accept the original English which is DFA legalised in the original country?

The french are only interested in the schengen visa.
There is no irish border control on french ground for the direct ferries to Ireland. You have the risk that the ferry company don't let your wife on board without a visa.
On the other route you have to say that you want to spent a few days holiday in the UK. If you want to settle in Ireland or not is not the business of the Brits.
In Ireland your wife ask for a entry stamp for a family member eu. If there is no border control you should ask for the gardai office.

My wife got the schengen visa already, took less than a week to get and it was for free, 1 year multi-entry, we just needed to give the original marriage cert and a visa form, so soon we have to make our decision what to do.
I asked some person who are not themselves immigration officers but for years helping the local immigrants in Ireland and they said they are not sure if we enter Ireland via UK would be a good idea, either we get a family permit or just the EEA dependent stamp at Calais, cause there would be no stamp in Ireland...
The only fully legal way to Ireland for a non-EU is either a visa or an article 10 RC, and we all know now that EU treaty rights visa will never be processed.
Again, my embassy confirmed that we can "exchange" the visa (this is not the generic visa but EEA-C) for a local 5 years RC without permit to work, and they used the word exchange, not to apply, so it looks we have a really good chance to have that, normally done in 2 months, i think we go for that so we dont have to worry about the visa anymore.
It is for sure now that in my country they implemented the 2004/38 directive even for the own citizens too, not only the ones who are exercising eu treaty right, and self-sufficiency is permitted too, that is why it is possible to get the local 5 years RC.

I found no one on the internet or in person who could confirm that they were able to come on ferry directly to Ireland without visa or article 10 RC, i only found that from Calais to Dover they went on 1A code, or the new name of the stamp is EEA dependent.
I found some who confirmed the they would not be able to board the ferry w/o article 10 RC, and even with that there was a bit hassle.
So it is still an open question which way to go....

jul1 wrote:My wife got the schengen visa already, took less than a week to get and it was for free, 1 year multi-entry, we just needed to give the original marriage cert and a visa form, so soon we have to make our decision what to do.
I asked some person who are not themselves immigration officers but for years helping the local immigrants in Ireland and they said they are not sure if we enter Ireland via UK would be a good idea, either we get a family permit or just the EEA dependent stamp at Calais, cause there would be no stamp in Ireland...
The only fully legal way to Ireland for a non-EU is either a visa or an article 10 RC, and we all know now that EU treaty rights visa will never be processed.
Again, my embassy confirmed that we can "exchange" the visa (this is not the generic visa but EEA-C) for a local 5 years RC without permit to work, and they used the word exchange, not to apply, so it looks we have a really good chance to have that, normally done in 2 months, i think we go for that so we dont have to worry about the visa anymore.
It is for sure now that in my country they implemented the 2004/38 directive even for the own citizens too, not only the ones who are exercising eu treaty right, and self-sufficiency is permitted too, that is why it is possible to get the local 5 years RC.

I found no one on the internet or in person who could confirm that they were able to come on ferry directly to Ireland without visa or article 10 RC, i only found that from Calais to Dover they went on 1A code, or the new name of the stamp is EEA dependent.
I found some who confirmed the they would not be able to board the ferry w/o article 10 RC, and even with that there was a bit hassle.
So it is still an open question which way to go....

Iam British citizen I applied for Irish EUTR visa for my wife but after waiting for nearly a year I withdraw her application and applied for schengen visa under eu free movement within 10 working days.
She's in Europe now her visa have expired. I don't know if she's legal or illegal now.
We can apply for another schengen visa and technically she will be allowed to travel within schengen countries while travelling with us. Spouse of eu national.

We don't want to do the Surender Singh route in schengen countries because of the language difficulties.
My question is same as yours. Iam thinking to take my wife and our two British children to Cherbourg and try to board a ferry to Ireland.
Will the French border control allow us to board the ferry?

Sincejune wrote:Iam British citizen I applied for Irish EUTR visa for my wife but after waiting for nearly a year I withdraw her application and applied for schengen visa under eu free movement within 10 working days.
She's in Europe now her visa have expired. I don't know if she's legal or illegal now.
We can apply for another schengen visa and technically she will be allowed to travel within schengen countries while travelling with us. Spouse of eu national.

We don't want to do the Surender Singh route in schengen countries because of the language difficulties.
My question is same as yours. Iam thinking to take my wife and our two British children to Cherbourg and try to board a ferry to Ireland.
Will the French border control allow us to board the ferry?

One way to find out.

I intend to do the same. I want to take my mum from France to Ireland.

I believe one of us will have to try it to see if this works

noajthan wrote:

Sincejune wrote:Iam British citizen I applied for Irish EUTR visa for my wife but after waiting for nearly a year I withdraw her application and applied for schengen visa under eu free movement within 10 working days.
She's in Europe now her visa have expired. I don't know if she's legal or illegal now.
We can apply for another schengen visa and technically she will be allowed to travel within schengen countries while travelling with us. Spouse of eu national.

We don't want to do the Surender Singh route in schengen countries because of the language difficulties.
My question is same as yours. Iam thinking to take my wife and our two British children to Cherbourg and try to board a ferry to Ireland.
Will the French border control allow us to board the ferry?

One way to find out.

What will be the repercussions from French border force or police if they don't allow us to board the ferry?

Sincejune wrote:What will be the repercussions from French border force or police if they don't allow us to board the ferry?

Nothing.

You have the full weight and power of EU Directive 2004/38/EC behind you.

The only question is whether the ferry check-in staff know that.

im glad that we are growing here but also wondering what are the other 10.000 eutr applicant is doing other waiting and being frustrated, i think more people should share their story how did they get in Ireland (i know a few who recently arrived here but they all went for article 10 card)

to Sincejune :
If your wife visa is up the french is not gonna be happy about it, also how could you apply for her another visa? Normally she has to go back her country or where she has a right to stay and apply for another one, but she has to be out for 90 days anyway, if she overstayed and busted she will be fined like 300-1000eur and maybe banned for some time.

jul1 wrote:im glad that we are growing here but also wondering what are the other 10.000 eutr applicant is doing other waiting and being frustrated, i think more people should share their story how did they get in Ireland (i know a few who recently arrived here but they all went for article 10 card)

to Sincejune :
If your wife visa is up the french is not gonna be happy about it, also how could you apply for her another visa? Normally she has to go back her country or where she has a right to stay and apply for another one, but she has to be out for 90 days anyway, if she overstayed and busted she will be fined like 300-1000eur and maybe banned for some time.

They can't fine or ban her. French will have to issue her visa or allow her travelling with me like the one we are talking about Ireland. Arriving at border with visa they should facilitate the visa under EUTR artical 10.

On the same grounds we are having this discussions about Ireland. We are trying to gain entry to Ireland without visa.

Schengen visa is not valid for Ireland.

Is there any difference between France and Ireland regarding assistantting Eu national spouse under artical 10.

noajthan wrote:

Sincejune wrote:What will be the repercussions from French border force or police if they don't allow us to board the ferry?

Nothing.

You have the full weight and power of EU Directive 2004/38/EC behind you.

The only question is whether the ferry check-in staff know that.

If the French border force allows us to go through I think that should be the formality of going through immigration.

Will the ferry company have the authority to challenge French authorities decision?

We will try the ferry only when my wife will have the local RC, im afraid at port if she is declined they will stamp "declined" in the passport, in case we decide go for article 10 card i definitely dont want to go with that stamp.

Sincejune wrote:

jul1 wrote:im glad that we are growing here but also wondering what are the other 10.000 eutr applicant is doing other waiting and being frustrated, i think more people should share their story how did they get in Ireland (i know a few who recently arrived here but they all went for article 10 card)

to Sincejune :
If your wife visa is up the french is not gonna be happy about it, also how could you apply for her another visa? Normally she has to go back her country or where she has a right to stay and apply for another one, but she has to be out for 90 days anyway, if she overstayed and busted she will be fined like 300-1000eur and maybe banned for some time.[/quote

They can't fine or ban her. French will have to issue her visa or allow her travelling with me like the one we are talking about Ireland. Arriving at border with visa they should facilitate the visa under EUTR artical 10.

On the same grounds we are having this discussions about Ireland. We are trying to gain entry to Ireland without visa.

Schengen visa is not valid for Ireland.

Is there any difference between France and Ireland regarding assistantting Eu national spouse under artical 10.

Honestly i dont know how will the French react, cause in your case not that she needs a visa, she had it already but she overstayed it, the general Schengen rules is that even though you have a eg. 5 years visa you still have to obey 90/180 days rules, so even if the French gives her another Schengen visa she is still an overstayer.
My wife got a 1 year Schengen visa but that doesnt mean she can be here for 1 year continuously, but only 90 days in any 180 days period.

Technically a family member of a eu citizen cannot overstay a visa.

Eu directive 2004/38 article 5 section 2
Family members who are not nationals of a Member State shall only be required to have an
entry visa in accordance with Regulation (EC) No 539/2001 or, where appropriate, with national law.

Entry means for crossing the border. The stay itself is covered from article 6 section 2.