Permanent Residency form - Employment question

I am an EU migrant who has been in the UK over 5 years and fulfill the requirements for Permanent Residence. I am completing form EEA3 (on the advice of the FreeMovement blog e-book that says you can use the shorter form) not EEA(PR).

I have a question about my employment record and how to submit this as both the Home Office and HMRC have given me conflicting advice.

I have been working for the past 4 years in a PAYE job so will submit P60s, Letter of employment, payslips etc. However, before that I had my own Ltd Company of which I was Director and employee. I paid myself a very low salary and took dividends. I am going to enclose my tax return for the year but I do not have any NI documents as my pay was below the threshold. I used an accountant at the time to manage payroll and he said nothing else was needed. I am planning to enclose my tax return for the year as well as my Ltd Company bank accounts and some dividend vouchers but will that suffice or will they ask for NI documents? What do I do if this is the case as my payslips show no NI was paid (due to being a salary below the tax threshold)?

It is also not clear whether this is classed as Employment or Self Employment since I was technically both a Director and an employee of the company and HMRC/Home Office have given me conflicting advice on what to put down here.

elf18 wrote:I am an EU migrant who has been in the UK over 5 years and fulfill the requirements for Permanent Residence. I am completing form EEA3 (on the advice of the FreeMovement blog e-book that says you can use the shorter form) not EEA(PR).

I have a question about my employment record and how to submit this as both the Home Office and HMRC have given me conflicting advice.

...

It is also not clear whether this is classed as Employment or Self Employment since I was technically both a Director and an employee of the company and HMRC/Home Office have given me conflicting advice on what to put down here.

Rules on acceptable application forms apparently change on 1 Feb - suggest check them out, especially if not applying until end of month.

HO will apply MET to see if caseworker can agree you were a selfemployed qualified person.
This goes above and beyond cleaner, purer EU law by which you merely have to demonstrate work was genuine and effective rather than supplementary and marginal.

EU law does not address distinctions between director/sole trader & etc.

Lack of tax and/or NI payments should not lead to automatic refusal (as EU law does not speak to such mundane provincial details, peculiar to one EU memberstate or another) but should lead to further investigation of your case.

Be aware, what may be legal and acceptable business practice may or may not cut it in an immigration context.
Remember your company is a separate legal entity and you are applying in your own right so a healthy balance sheet and artificially low salary may not help your case.
If applying as a selfsufficient qualified person living on own assets (instead of as a worker/selfemployed) you would need to have had CSI in place.

You can dig into how HO caseworker will assess and weigh up your case to be a qualified person here:
https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/s ... _clean.pdf

And more on MET from your favoured blog, here:
https://www.freemovement.org.uk/using-m ... ne-worker/

I did not have CSI as I was employed (by my own company) and Director and had savings etc.
I can provide a tax return to show the year in question that I earned over £40,000 and paid tax of over £5,000.

I suppose I can wait another few months until I have done a full 5 years as an employee at the company I currently work for but I want to get the process done ASAP because of the uncertainty of Brexit.

elf18 wrote:I did not have CSI as I was employed (by my own company) and Director and had savings etc.
I can provide a tax return to show the year in question that I earned over £40,000 and paid tax of over £5,000.

I suppose I can wait another few months until I have done a full 5 years as an employee at the company I currently work for but I want to get the process done ASAP because of the uncertainty of Brexit.

Nothing will happen for say 2 years as Article 50 has not yet been triggered.

noajthan wrote:

elf18 wrote:I did not have CSI as I was employed (by my own company) and Director and had savings etc.
I can provide a tax return to show the year in question that I earned over £40,000 and paid tax of over £5,000.

I suppose I can wait another few months until I have done a full 5 years as an employee at the company I currently work for but I want to get the process done ASAP because of the uncertainty of Brexit.

Nothing will happen for say 2 years as Article 50 has not yet been triggered.

My fear is that they will say something like only those who had the requisite 5 years as a qualified person before article 50 was triggered will be allowed to stay with no caveats and I have been here 10 years but I worked as a contractor for a long time, worked through an umbrella company etc, had months in those 10 years when I was in between jobs for a few months but never earning less than £40k per year.

elf18 wrote:My fear is that they will say something like only those who had the requisite 5 years as a qualified person before article 50 was triggered will be allowed to stay with no caveats and I have been here 10 years but I worked as a contractor for a long time, worked through an umbrella company etc, had months in those 10 years when I was in between jobs for a few months but never earning less than £40k per year.

Its EU law that applies not the whims of random politicians.
The EEA Regulations are still in situ and in force.

Have you reviewed and digested the provided links yet?

Collate your existing evidence to back your case in selfemployed/employed combo.
See how it stacks up.

Worst case, wait a few months until (as you say) you have served 5 years as an employee then apply.
Brexit won't have happened by then in either case.

Can you reapply if you are refused Permanent Residency and can you reapply as many times as you like?

If you reapply can you use a different 5 year period with different status such as self sufficient or different employers or do you have to use the same one each time?

elf18 wrote:Can you reapply if you are refused Permanent Residency and can you reapply as many times as you like?

If you reapply can you use a different 5 year period with different status such as self sufficient or different employers or do you have to use the same one each time?

You certainly can reapply, it depends on the basis of the refusal.

Bear in mind that you would need to have held CSI for any period of self-sufficiency.

Posts merged.
No need for multiple posts.

And as it appears you have not yet applied, you will notice on the PR form there is no question such as when is your qualifying period.
How would you even know?

Just collate your information and good supporting evidence to back your case.
Complete the form.

The caseworker will assess and weigh up your case based on your evidence and decide if they can confirm the PR you believe you have acquired.

Add a cogent cover letter to point them in right direction if you think it helps.

Casa wrote:Bear in mind that you would need to have held CSI for any period of self-sufficiency.

The problem I have now is finding out whether working through a Ltd Company and paying myself a low salary + dividends (and submitting a tax return which shows I earned more than £40k and paid tax) will be classed as employment. I was a Director and employee but the bulk of my income came via dividends not PAYE.

elf18 wrote:

Casa wrote:Bear in mind that you would need to have held CSI for any period of self-sufficiency.

The problem I have now is finding out whether working through a Ltd Company and paying myself a low salary + dividends (and submitting a tax return which shows I earned more than £40k and paid tax) will be classed as employment. I was a Director and employee but the bulk of my income came via dividends not PAYE.

Show work was genuine and effective.
As a bonus to satisfy UK's non-compliant requirements, pass MET.
Job done.

noajthan wrote:

elf18 wrote:

Casa wrote:Bear in mind that you would need to have held CSI for any period of self-sufficiency.

The problem I have now is finding out whether working through a Ltd Company and paying myself a low salary + dividends (and submitting a tax return which shows I earned more than £40k and paid tax) will be classed as employment. I was a Director and employee but the bulk of my income came via dividends not PAYE.

Show work was genuine and effective.
As a bonus to satisfy UK's non-compliant requirements, pass MET.
Job done.

I had two jobs in the tax year 2012-2013, one of which was as Director/Employee at my own Ltd Company. In this one I paid below the PET for NI for 10 months, my salary was in the region of £5600k and then I took dividends.

The second job during the tax year 2012-2013 was the one I am currently still in when I was paying full tax/NI via PAYE. If the MET is calculated on my low salary+dividends from my first employment plus PAYE tax and NI from my current job it will probably be ok, but who knows how they will look at it.

My tax return says income from all employments £20k, dividends from UK companies, £20k, tax paid £5.5k. I might just include the few payslips from my current job which cover the first three months of 2013 which will show a lot of PAYE/NI paid but don't know if this will count as MET.

MET should not be applied that far back in time although some members report that it has been.
Its your call whether you apply yet as its your £65 fee that's on the line.