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Non EEA citizen: Permanent Residency Application Options

Use this section for any queries concerning the EU Settlement Scheme, for applicants holding pre-settled and settled status.

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mexapp2012
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Non EEA citizen: Permanent Residency Application Options

Post by mexapp2012 » Wed Jan 11, 2017 10:54 am

Hello,

I am looking for guidance on how and when to apply for permanent residency in the UK, as well as advice on flexibility with documentation.

By way of introduction -

http://www.immigrationboards.com/post61 ... ml#p615358
http://www.immigrationboards.com/post65 ... ml#p651388


My details:
Indian National
Entered UK as marriage visitor: 26/01/2012
Married EU National partner: 03/03/12
EEA2 App Sent: 19th March
EEA 2 App Recd: 20th March
COA Recd: 25th May, dated 15th May
RC Recd: 25th May, dated 15th May
Worked for a UK employer from March 2012 to December 2013.
Changed jobs, taking a 4 week gap (to take a break over the holidays), commencing work for another UK employer in January 2014. Have been with that employer since.
I've travelled outside the UK sporadically for work during the period, and often for holidays. The only substantial period outside the UK since I moved here was when I spent about 6 weeks in India when my father passed away. I was still employed through that period, taking time off and working out of my employers' Indian office during that time.

Partner details:
French National, entered UK as student: September 2008
Began full-time employment: January 2010
Working as consultant, spent most of her time in Mexico from August 2010 - December 2011 (although she was still employed out of the UK), which is where we met, as I was on the same project from a different country office.
She moved back to the UK in December 2011 after the project ended, but still had to frequently travel outside the UK for work (~3 days/week) until she changed jobs in March 2013.
Unlike my gap of 4 weeks, she had a gap of just 3 days in her employment (including the weekend).
Since then, she has rarely travelled outside the UK for work (roughly 2 weeks a year), but has frequently travelled outside the UK for holidays (although no more than annual leave allowance, which is less about 25 days or less).
In light of Brexit, we began thinking more seriously about her status, and decided to apply for PR to solidify her status in the UK (and consequently, mine).
We calculated that despite her travel patterns, she should have met the permanent residency criteria in December 2016, and applied for her permanent residency in late December, using her EEA National ID.
Our statements show that the £65 application payment was taken on 29/12/16, so we are now patiently waiting for that to be processed.

Our details:
Been living together in the UK since I entered in January 2012, but as a married couple since March 2012. Both gainfully employed throughout, as demonstrated above, but please feel free to ask for details in order to provide better advice.
We have rental agreements from February 2012 to August 2015, and a mortgage agreement from August 2015 onwards.
We also have bank statements, utility and council tax bills, employment contracts, payslips, etc available if needed.

My EEA family member residence permit expires in May 2017. We plan to be on holiday outside the UK for one week in March, and over Easter in April, so I will only apply after that.


Questions:

Application Options
- Am I right in thinking the EEA route permanent residency application is the only path available to me?
- If not, based on the information above, is there a quicker option available to me? If so, what are the timelines and costs associated with them?
- What is the earliest I can apply for any of the options available? Is there a deadline by when I need to apply via these options?
- If I apply via the EEA route, does my partners in-flight application affect matters in any way? We hope her application will be resolved before I plan to apply after Easter, as I hope to use her national ID or passport in my application (but not both, as we don't want to restrict her ability to travel outside the UK). If we don't have a response on her application by April, would requesting for her National ID to be returned affect or delay her application, or complicate mine?

Personal/Family Considerations
We do not have children, but intend to start trying this year. What nationalities could our children inherit?
- French, presumably through my wife (our marriage is registered with the French consulate in the UK
- Non EU, through me - although we wouldn't do this as India doesn't allow dual nationality, and I wouldn't want the child to have to jump through hoops the way I've had to.
- British, in addition to French? Based on my research, it seems this is an option once my wife has her PR conferred? If so, what is the process for confirming this?


The following is purely a 'nice to have', so I would only consider applications options if they wouldn't jeopardise our lives in the UK in the long-term. I would still strongly appreciate advice on these matters, as they are important matters to me, personally and professionally

Travel Restrictions
I ask the earlier question regarding quicker application options because I would like to be able to continue travelling for holidays and/or work, as far as possible. Giving up my passport for 6 months would be crippling, as I have my US and Schengen visas in there.
I realise I will be unable to travel to the US without my passport and US visa, but are there any circumstances under which I could travel to Schengen countries without my passport? (i.e., say, with a UK ID (UK driver license + my COA + marriage certificate + proof of spouse identity).
If not, when is the earliest I could request my passport to be returned without affecting my application?

We have two weddings in France in mid-June and mid-July. My wife will not miss these weddings (hence the questions on ensuring how we can retain at least one of her passport/National ID.
Ideally, I would like to attend these weddings as well.
Additionally, there is a strong possibility that I will need to travel to Spain for work in early June.

Given the above, would it be possible for me to apply for Permanent Residency only after mid-July?
Given that my residence card expires in mid May, will I be risking denial of entry to the UK upon my return from France or Spain?
If I travel for the weddings in June and July, I will travel with my wife, so would that help ease my return? What other documentation would it be prudent of me to take along - to be absolutely sure of averting an absolute disaster?
If I travel for work in June, I will travel without my wife, so what risks am I taking regarding my return to the UK? What documentation can I carry to again ensure that our superb lives in the UK are not absolutely wrecked out pure carelessness or avarice...


Thanks in advance for helping with all of this.

noajthan
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Posts: 14911
Joined: Sat Oct 25, 2014 11:31 am
Location: UK

Re: Non EEA citizen: Permanent Residency Application Options

Post by noajthan » Fri Jan 13, 2017 9:10 pm

mexapp2012 wrote:Hello,

I am looking for guidance on how and when to apply for permanent residency in the UK, as well as advice on flexibility with documentation.

...

Thanks in advance for helping with all of this.
Wife could have acquired PR as early as 2013 but the over one year (to 2011) out is problematic;
it probably broke her continuity of residence in UK (resetting PR clock to zero).

Yes, wife may have acquired PR by Dec 2016 (from Dec 2011 when PR clock restarted).

You may acquire PR via spouse/sponsor.
Earliest would be 5th wedding anniversary: March 2017.

Wife may apply for passport return; no penalties incurred.
Wait a few weeks after submitting application.

Children born in UK to a settled parent are British; apply for passport on passport form.

Get your travel out the way then apply.
UK will still be in EU this year so no risk there.

If travelling back from Europe with or without spouse you will get back in UK if you can prove id, relationship and spouse status (eg settled person).
And that spouse is with your or else (normally) residing in UK and (preferably) waiting for you.
So carry marriage certificate and DCPR plus proof of address.

You may ofcourse face difficulty getting on a flight to UK without the valid RC (btw its not a permit nor a visa).
All that is gold does not glitter; Not all those who wander are lost. E&OE.

mexapp2012
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Posts: 13
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Re: Non EEA citizen: Permanent Residency Application Options

Post by mexapp2012 » Sat Jan 14, 2017 9:52 pm

noajthan wrote:
mexapp2012 wrote:Hello,

I am looking for guidance on how and when to apply for permanent residency in the UK, as well as advice on flexibility with documentation.

...

Thanks in advance for helping with all of this.
Wife could have acquired PR as early as 2013 but the over one year (to 2011) out is problematic;
it probably broke her continuity of residence in UK (resetting PR clock to zero).

Yes, wife may have acquired PR by Dec 2016 (from Dec 2011 when PR clock restarted).

You may acquire PR via spouse/sponsor.
Earliest would be 5th wedding anniversary: March 2017.

Wife may apply for passport return; no penalties incurred.
Wait a few weeks after submitting application.

Children born in UK to a settled parent are British; apply for passport on passport form.

Get your travel out the way then apply.
UK will still be in EU this year so no risk there.

If travelling back from Europe with or without spouse you will get back in UK if you can prove id, relationship and spouse status (eg settled person).
And that spouse is with your or else (normally) residing in UK and (preferably) waiting for you.
So carry marriage certificate and DCPR plus proof of address.

You may ofcourse face difficulty getting on a flight to UK without the valid RC (btw its not a permit nor a visa).
Thank you so much for taking the time to respond!
Agreed on the complication with my wife's time away from the UK - which is why we decided to apply only in December. We'll only look to request her ID back around March if I'm still planning to apply right after Easter.

However, I could do with a few furhter clarifications, please...

First of all, I should add that I have a Schengen visa. I've been told I don't technically require a visa to travel to the Schengen states given my EEA residency card, but I've kept one to be on the safe side.

I have managed to schedule my work trip to Spain for the week before my residence card expires, so the only possibility of me travelling after its expiry would be for the two weddings, which would be with my wife.
Im guessing it would be absolutely foolhardly/impossible to travel in June/July with a UK driving license + 'marriage certificate + proof of joint residence, even if I were to be travelling with my wife.
(the above, should I choose to send in my application in, along with my passport before the weddings)

However, I am seriously considering the possibility of sending in my PR application only after the July wedding, if, provided we travel together and carry the following documents, I would legally be within my rights to travel out and back to the UK -

Both passports (my passport would include my then expired 5-yr family member of EEA national UK residency card)
UK marriage certificate + French Family Book
Mortgage details/Other proof of joint residence

Question -

What exactly is this DCPR that you advise carrying?
Also, could you elaborate on your last sentence? Are you suggesting that it's possible that the airline authorities in France may be unaware/unwilling to let me get onto the flight back to the UK without a visa or residence card, despite all the other factors mentioned above?
Would it be helpful to take a printout of the relevant clauses from this website -
http://www.eearegulations.co.uk/

Thanks

noajthan
Moderator
Posts: 14911
Joined: Sat Oct 25, 2014 11:31 am
Location: UK

Re: Non EEA citizen: Permanent Residency Application Options

Post by noajthan » Sat Jan 14, 2017 11:22 pm

DCPR is wife's confirmation of PR.

Yes, shocking as it may sound, some airlines (or their hard-pressed and sometimes poorly trained check-in staff) may or may not be au fait with the Directive;
particularly those budget carriers who are not members of IATA and do not use the Timatic passport/visa information system; (names omitted to protect the innocent).

This is understandable (if not excusable) as airlines face substantial penalties for carrying undocumented illegals into UK;
- no doubt staff performance ratings and bonuses depend on not getting caught out.

You can carry the Directive itself if you wish.
After all brandishing a copy of UK EEA Regulations (UK domestic law) may not carry much weight in a French airport.
It may or may not help your case 'on the ground' and 'at the coalface'.

Some members have flown in without any visible 'visa'.
Some members have been barred from boarding a UK flight.
You can check out the tales of success and of woe in the forum.
So it depends on how risk-averse you are.
No problem getting over the UK border ofcourse, (although you may face a brief delay and questioning); the issue is getting to the border, particularly by plane.

You can dig into these vital questions here:
https://eumovement.wordpress.com/2010/0 ... to-travel/
All that is gold does not glitter; Not all those who wander are lost. E&OE.

mexapp2012
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Posts: 13
Joined: Wed Mar 28, 2012 9:42 am
Mood:
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Re: Non EEA citizen: Permanent Residency Application Options

Post by mexapp2012 » Sun Jan 15, 2017 10:20 am

Okay, thanks again for the inputs.

If I decide to take the risk of travelling to the weddings and applying for my pr only after, we should have my wife's pr back by then, which we will carry along to demonstrate her status as a settled person in the UK.
If I decide to take the risk and we don't have her pr cars by then, I will look to carry a proof of her employment status to again, demonstrate proof of her status as a qualified person.

noajthan
Moderator
Posts: 14911
Joined: Sat Oct 25, 2014 11:31 am
Location: UK

Re: Non EEA citizen: Permanent Residency Application Options

Post by noajthan » Sun Jan 15, 2017 10:46 am

mexapp2012 wrote:Okay, thanks again for the inputs.

If I decide to take the risk of travelling to the weddings and applying for my pr only after, we should have my wife's pr back by then, which we will carry along to demonstrate her status as a settled person in the UK.
If I decide to take the risk and we don't have her pr cars by then, I will look to carry a proof of her employment status to again, demonstrate proof of her status as a qualified person.
That's fine for the border. Kindly and cheery UK border guards should give you
every reasonable opportunity” to prove by other means that he is the family member of an EEA national;
a person should not automatically be refused admission as a result of not being able to produce adequate evidence.
As a guide within a week of arriving at port should be adequate
https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/ ... ndents.pdf
- section 5.5

It may or may not be enough for the plane or ferry or train check-in staff.
All that is gold does not glitter; Not all those who wander are lost. E&OE.

mexapp2012
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Posts: 13
Joined: Wed Mar 28, 2012 9:42 am
Mood:
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Re: Non EEA citizen: Permanent Residency Application Options

Post by mexapp2012 » Tue Feb 14, 2017 10:39 am

Quick update.

Wife just received her PR card in the post.

She had sent in her application just before Christmas.
The application fee payment was taken on 29/12
PR card and documents were returned via post on 14/02

We received no email confirmation or any other acknowledgement of the application. We didn't contact them either, as we assumed they would get in touch if they need additional documentation/clarification. However, we were planning to call them in late Feb/early March for an update.

My 5 year EEA Family Member permit expires in mid May, so will send in my own EEA Route PR application after.

Our experience with the HO has been far more efficient and painless than we feared the last two times, so hoping for a hattrick of such dealings...

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