ESC

Click the "allow" button if you want to receive important news and updates from immigrationboards.com


Immigrationboards.com: Immigration, work visa and work permit discussion board

Welcome to immigrationboards.com!

Login Register Do not show

Financial requirements for EU family member?

Immigration to European countries, don't post UK or Ireland related topics!

Moderators: Casa, push, JAJ, ca.funke, Amber, zimba, vinny, Obie, EUsmileWEallsmile, batleykhan, meself2, geriatrix, John, ChetanOjha, archigabe, Administrator

Locked
Noz03
Junior Member
Posts: 72
Joined: Sun Dec 23, 2012 6:07 pm

Financial requirements for EU family member?

Post by Noz03 » Sat Feb 18, 2017 11:59 pm

I am a British citizen with a Turkish wife living in Germany. She currently has a 2 year residence permit for family members and we need to have it extended but I am a bit worried about the financial requirements we are being asked.

As I know/have read, the only financial/employment requirement for EU family members is that you are earning or have enough money to support yourselves. However, when we made our appointment to the immigration in Germany they sent a letter listing my proof of employment as a requirement, it actually said in bold that it must be the employment of the EU citizen.

The problem is, I am currently self-studying/setting up my own business. My income is only around €500, but worse of all I don't really have any way to prove this as I haven't yet made a tax report.

On the other hand, my wife earns around €1400 per month from a company while also studying at a national university. We also have €5000 in our German account and €12,000 in a UK savings account. Although I was told before they don't accept foreign bank statements. This is more than enough for us to live as our rent/bills total in at only €500 leaving almost €1500 after that, and also having the savings as a backup.

So I would like to ask,

Do I really need to prove my employment? And if so, is there any way that my 3 months of earning only around €500 is enough?
If not is there any way to use my savings as proof that we have enough money to support ourselves?
Does anyone have any advice for me what I can do to not have problems when we go there in a few days?

User avatar
ALKB
Respected Guru
Posts: 871
Joined: Mon Mar 26, 2012 11:32 am
Location: Berlin
Germany

Re: Financial requirements for EU family member?

Post by ALKB » Sun Feb 19, 2017 11:40 am

Noz03 wrote:I am a British citizen with a Turkish wife living in Germany. She currently has a 2 year residence permit for family members and we need to have it extended but I am a bit worried about the financial requirements we are being asked.

As I know/have read, the only financial/employment requirement for EU family members is that you are earning or have enough money to support yourselves. However, when we made our appointment to the immigration in Germany they sent a letter listing my proof of employment as a requirement, it actually said in bold that it must be the employment of the EU citizen.

The problem is, I am currently self-studying/setting up my own business. My income is only around €500, but worse of all I don't really have any way to prove this as I haven't yet made a tax report.

On the other hand, my wife earns around €1400 per month from a company while also studying at a national university. We also have €5000 in our German account and €12,000 in a UK savings account. Although I was told before they don't accept foreign bank statements. This is more than enough for us to live as our rent/bills total in at only €500 leaving almost €1500 after that, and also having the savings as a backup.

So I would like to ask,

Do I really need to prove my employment? And if so, is there any way that my 3 months of earning only around €500 is enough?
If not is there any way to use my savings as proof that we have enough money to support ourselves?
Does anyone have any advice for me what I can do to not have problems when we go there in a few days?

Why does she have a 2-year permit? Was it issued under EU rules or is it some other permit? Residence Cards for family members of EEA nationals are usually valid for 5 years. Was her's issued in line with passport expiry?

You don't have to show employment as such. You have to show that you are exercising treaty rights - employed, self-employed or studying full time. Or self-sufficient. You could show that you are self-sufficient though your wife's income.

Also, if you are self-employed, you can show your company registration, registration with the local tax office, business account statements? How are you health insured? Your health insurance can send you a membership certificate mentioning that you are insured as self-employed.
I am not a regulated immigration advisor. I am offering an opinion and not advice.

Noz03
Junior Member
Posts: 72
Joined: Sun Dec 23, 2012 6:07 pm

Re: Financial requirements for EU family member?

Post by Noz03 » Sun Feb 19, 2017 1:42 pm

They said they only gave her 2 years because they basically weren't completely happy that we met requirements.

My insurance status is currently "dependent partner" as my income has been under what is required to register as self employed.

I do have the busisness registered so that I could get a tax number to write receipts but I didn't set up a separate bank account, also a lot of clients pay in cash. Even so, I don't think they will be happy with the low amount I've been earning.

So that would mean claiming self sufficient with my wifes income, but how can I do this? Their requirements list was quite specific.

Here is what it said in their letter:
Arbeitsvertrag und Bescheinigung des Arbeitgebers über ein ungekündigtes Arbeitsverhältnis (nicht älter als 14 Tage) sowie Nettoverdienstnachweise der letzten 6 Monate Ihres EU-Ehemannes.
oder
bei Selbständigkeit Ihres Ehemannes, den letzten Steuerbescheid.
oder
Nachweis über Vermögen (Kontoauszüge).

EN:
Employment contract and the employer's certificate of an unlimited employment relationship (not older than 14 days) as well as the net income statement of the last six months of your EU husband.
or
With freelance employment of your husband, the last tax assessment.
or
Proof of assets (account statements).

User avatar
ALKB
Respected Guru
Posts: 871
Joined: Mon Mar 26, 2012 11:32 am
Location: Berlin
Germany

Re: Financial requirements for EU family member?

Post by ALKB » Sun Feb 19, 2017 4:29 pm

Noz03 wrote:They said they only gave her 2 years because they basically weren't completely happy that we met requirements.

My insurance status is currently "dependent partner" as my income has been under what is required to register as self employed.

I do have the busisness registered so that I could get a tax number to write receipts but I didn't set up a separate bank account, also a lot of clients pay in cash. Even so, I don't think they will be happy with the low amount I've been earning.

So that would mean claiming self sufficient with my wifes income, but how can I do this? Their requirements list was quite specific.

Here is what it said in their letter:
Arbeitsvertrag und Bescheinigung des Arbeitgebers über ein ungekündigtes Arbeitsverhältnis (nicht älter als 14 Tage) sowie Nettoverdienstnachweise der letzten 6 Monate Ihres EU-Ehemannes.
oder
bei Selbständigkeit Ihres Ehemannes, den letzten Steuerbescheid.
oder
Nachweis über Vermögen (Kontoauszüge).

EN:
Employment contract and the employer's certificate of an unlimited employment relationship (not older than 14 days) as well as the net income statement of the last six months of your EU husband.
or
With freelance employment of your husband, the last tax assessment.
or
Proof of assets (account statements).
I personally do not know of any successful application in such a scenario but that doesn't mean it's not possible.

I think it would fall under 'proof of assets': asset = your wife's income from employment.

Get all the documents that are usually asked from the EU-sponsor for your wife's job and hope the case worker will accept it? Possibly take a print out of EU regulations with you that states that self-sufficiency is acceptable. If you encounter problems, ask to speak to the head of department.

But remember: EU freedom of movement is designed to facilitate economic activity of the EU spouse, not of the non-EEA spouse, so the alien department may be less than happy.

Good luck!
I am not a regulated immigration advisor. I am offering an opinion and not advice.

Noz03
Junior Member
Posts: 72
Joined: Sun Dec 23, 2012 6:07 pm

Re: Financial requirements for EU family member?

Post by Noz03 » Sun Feb 19, 2017 4:39 pm

Hmm :( Doesn't sound so promising. Actually I believe the person we spoke with last time when we had problems was the head of the department by the way she was bossing around the other workers, and she definitely is not a person who would help us :(

Do you know where I can find the most official EU regulations regarding self-sufficiency?

Also do you know if they are right to not accept a foreign bank statement, and if so how I could make it acceptable? I will be taking every single paper I can think of just in case.

User avatar
ALKB
Respected Guru
Posts: 871
Joined: Mon Mar 26, 2012 11:32 am
Location: Berlin
Germany

Re: Financial requirements for EU family member?

Post by ALKB » Sun Feb 19, 2017 5:42 pm

Noz03 wrote:Hmm :( Doesn't sound so promising. Actually I believe the person we spoke with last time when we had problems was the head of the department by the way she was bossing around the other workers, and she definitely is not a person who would help us :(

Do you know where I can find the most official EU regulations regarding self-sufficiency?

Also do you know if they are right to not accept a foreign bank statement, and if so how I could make it acceptable? I will be taking every single paper I can think of just in case.
European Parliament is a good source:

http://www.europarl.europa.eu/atyourser ... 2.1.3.html

And here we find why your wife only received a 2-year RC:

http://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/ ... ERV:l23004

How were you exercising treaty rights when you first applied and that 2-year card was issued?

Reg. foreign bank statements: at the very least you would have to have them translated into German by a recognised translator, not sure if those would then be acceptable.
I am not a regulated immigration advisor. I am offering an opinion and not advice.

mgb
Senior Member
Posts: 649
Joined: Tue Dec 17, 2013 8:28 pm

Re: Financial requirements for EU family member?

Post by mgb » Sun Feb 19, 2017 7:11 pm

@Noz03
If you are selfemployed take a look at the german Freizügigkeitsgesetz paragraph 2 section 2 number 2.
The registration as selfemployed should be enough.

User avatar
ALKB
Respected Guru
Posts: 871
Joined: Mon Mar 26, 2012 11:32 am
Location: Berlin
Germany

Re: Financial requirements for EU family member?

Post by ALKB » Sun Feb 19, 2017 7:28 pm

mgb wrote:@Noz03
If you are selfemployed take a look at the german Freizügigkeitsgesetz paragraph 2 section 2 number 2.
The registration as selfemployed should be enough.
Doesn't EU law also say that employment/self-employment should be effective and not marginal?

The OP does not earn enough from self-employment to pay tax, his own health insurance or social contributions.
I am not a regulated immigration advisor. I am offering an opinion and not advice.

mgb
Senior Member
Posts: 649
Joined: Tue Dec 17, 2013 8:28 pm

Re: Financial requirements for EU family member?

Post by mgb » Sun Feb 19, 2017 8:53 pm

There is no ECJ ruling about self employment.
If the OP apply for social welfare in Germany he is out of the game.

Noz03
Junior Member
Posts: 72
Joined: Sun Dec 23, 2012 6:07 pm

Re: Financial requirements for EU family member?

Post by Noz03 » Sun Feb 19, 2017 11:29 pm

mgb wrote:There is no ECJ ruling about self employment.
If the OP apply for social welfare in Germany he is out of the game.
No, I never have and don't ever plan to. I don't think they will accept me as self-employed though as I made little to no money last year. I'm actually just starting to earn properly over the last few months but not really any way to prove that...

Noz03
Junior Member
Posts: 72
Joined: Sun Dec 23, 2012 6:07 pm

Re: Financial requirements for EU family member?

Post by Noz03 » Mon Feb 20, 2017 1:12 pm

So I am putting all my papers together now, and it seems it will come down to whether they accept my freelance tax registration (but without any tax report) as my status, and my bank statements as proof of income.

Failing this, my only idea is to claim having sufficient funds based on savings (€18,000 if I move everything into Germany) and my wifes income which is just slightly under the €17,640 official amount considered basic living expenses in Germany.

Does anyone know if that is possible to combine regular income and savings to show "sufficient funds"? No where seems to go into any details about this... :/

mgb
Senior Member
Posts: 649
Joined: Tue Dec 17, 2013 8:28 pm

Re: Financial requirements for EU family member?

Post by mgb » Mon Feb 20, 2017 6:02 pm

Simply refer to paragraph 5a of the german Freizügigkeitsgesetz about the necessary documents.
A self-employed person need a EU passport or EU id-card, a receipt of the address/residence registration from the town hall and one proof for the self employment.
There is no income threshold defined for self employment in the eu directive.
The family member need a passport, in your case a marriage certificate and a receipt of the address/residence registration.

Noz03
Junior Member
Posts: 72
Joined: Sun Dec 23, 2012 6:07 pm

Re: Financial requirements for EU family member?

Post by Noz03 » Mon Feb 20, 2017 11:25 pm

mgb wrote:Simply refer to paragraph 5a of the german Freizügigkeitsgesetz about the necessary documents.
A self-employed person need a EU passport or EU id-card, a receipt of the address/residence registration from the town hall and one proof for the self employment.
There is no income threshold defined for self employment in the eu directive.
The family member need a passport, in your case a marriage certificate and a receipt of the address/residence registration.
Do you mean this one? Is that what this says? I nore google translate can understand much of this text. Legal documents are way above my ability.
5a Zu § 5a – Vorlage von Dokumenten

5a.0
Allgemeines
Die Dokumente, die für die Glaubhaftmachung der Voraussetzungen für die Ausübung des Freizügigkeitsrechts bzw. die Ausstellung der Aufenthaltskarte nach § 5 verlangt werden dürfen, sind in § 5a abschließend aufgezählt. Die Vorschrift setzt Artikel 8 Absatz 3 und 5 sowie Artikel 10 Absatz 2 Freizügigkeitsrichtlinie um.
5a.1
Dokumente, deren Vorlage von Unionsbürgern verlangt werden kann
5a.1.1
Absatz 1 betrifft die Nachweise, welche die Ausländerbehörde zur Glaubhaftmachung der Voraussetzungen des Freizügigkeitsrechts nach § 5 Absatz 2 von einem Unionsbürger verlangen kann. Der gültige Personalausweis oder Reisepass kann von allen Unionsbürgern gleichermaßen verlangt werden.
5a.1.2
Im Übrigen ist bei den Nachweisen, welche die Ausländerbehörde gemäß Absatz 1 verlangen kann, nach den Kategorien freizügigkeitsberechtigter Unionsbürger zu unterscheiden (Absatz 1 Satz 1 Nummer 1 bis 3, Satz 2).
5a.1.2.1
Unter dem Begriff „andere Ausbildungseinrichtung“ sind auch außeruniversitäre Forschungseinrichtungen zu verstehen, soweit die ausländischen Wissenschaftlerinnen und Wissenschaftler dort im Rahmen eines Praktikums von mehr als drei Monaten, in der Vorbereitung auf eine Promotion oder in der Postdoc-Phase erste praktische Erfahrungen in der Forschung machen.
5a.1.2.2
Ein besonderer Nachweis für Dienstleistungserbringer und -empfänger (§ 2 Absatz 2 Nummer 4 und 5), die Unionsbürger sind, ist nicht vorgesehen.
5a.2
Dokumente, deren Vorlage von Familienangehörigen eines Unionsbürgers verlangt werden kann
Absatz 2 betrifft die Nachweise, welche die Ausländerbehörde von einem Familienangehörigen eines Unionsbürgers verlangen kann. Dabei betrifft Absatz 2 sowohl Familienangehörige mit Staatsangehörigkeit eines Mitgliedstaates der EU, die die Voraussetzungen des Freizügigkeitsrechts in den Fällen des § 5 Absatz 2 glaubhaft machen müssen, als auch Familienangehörige, die nicht Unionsbürger sind, denen eine Aufenthaltskarte nach § 5 Absatz 1 auszustellen ist.

mgb
Senior Member
Posts: 649
Joined: Tue Dec 17, 2013 8:28 pm

Re: Financial requirements for EU family member?

Post by mgb » Tue Feb 21, 2017 7:09 pm

You posted the administrative regulation (order for the officers) and not the law itself.

The law is here:
https://www.gesetze-im-internet.de/frei ... /__5a.html

PS: the internet site is from the german ministry of justice.

mgb
Senior Member
Posts: 649
Joined: Tue Dec 17, 2013 8:28 pm

Re: Financial requirements for EU family member?

Post by mgb » Thu Feb 23, 2017 12:41 am

There is a english translation available:

https://www.gesetze-im-internet.de/engl ... html#p0078

Locked
cron