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EEA (British) marrying Non EEA (Filipina) in ITALY

Family member & Ancestry immigration; don't post other immigration categories, please!
Marriage | Unmarried Partners | Fiancé/e | Ancestry

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evangelista
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EEA (British) marrying Non EEA (Filipina) in ITALY

Post by evangelista » Fri Jan 02, 2009 8:55 pm

First of all, hats off to this forum, you guys are really helpful and informative.
Ok heres the story. Came over to Italy late 2007 and started working here. I met someone who now happens to be my fiance. She is from Philippines. My parents are from there too but I was born and raised in the UK.Anyway, she got pregnant last March 2008 and we were really happy!! Unfortunately she is illegal in Italy but this is being temporarily resolved as she received a permesso di soggiorno per cura mediche ( a permit to stay for only a year during and after the pregnancy).
She applied for a visitors visa in June 2008 to see and meet my family.
She got refused as the clearance officer saw that she was only legal because of her pregnancy and also the fact that she entered Italy in 2005 and was basically not paying any taxes towards the government( she wanted to but how could she though, she was illegal).
So this is my question. I'm thinking of applying for the EEA family permit and wonder if this is similar to the "Surinder Singh" case.
I 've been working here in Italy more than 6 months and have an Identity card and residency here--Our son was born 2 weeks ago and he will become British automatically through me. Next month we are going to get married which will then make her legal here- What are the chances of her being accepted now?..also after getting her permesso soggiorno(permit to stay)after we get married here will she be "legally resident"?or does she need to file for residency too?(i mean by address etc.) . Will they consider this a marriage of convenience even if we have a child now together??will her previous refusal affect this application? Sorry for the long post. Hope someone can please help?
:(

vinny
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Post by vinny » Fri Jan 02, 2009 11:26 pm

Good chances of applying for an EEA family permit.

Also: [quote="IS (marriages of convenience) Serbia [2008] UKAIT 00031"](1) The burden of proving that a marriage is not a “marriage of convenienceâ€
This is not intended to be legal or professional advice in any jurisdiction. Please click on any given links for further information. Refer to the source of any quotes.
We do not inherit the Earth from our ancestors, we borrow it from our children.

evangelista
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Post by evangelista » Sat Jan 03, 2009 12:35 am

Thanks for your info vinny . Would you be able to provide any further info regarding these questions ?
"after getting her permesso soggiorno(permit to stay)after we get married here will she be "legally resident"?
or does she need to file for residency too?(i mean by address etc.) ?
will her previous refusal affect this application? "

vinny
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Post by vinny » Sat Jan 03, 2009 1:09 am

Click and follow hypertext links above for further information.
This is not intended to be legal or professional advice in any jurisdiction. Please click on any given links for further information. Refer to the source of any quotes.
We do not inherit the Earth from our ancestors, we borrow it from our children.

John
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Post by John » Thu Jan 15, 2009 8:01 pm

evangelista, following the marriage, as you appreciate, your wife (as she will be) will be a "family member" of an EEA Citizen .... you! Accordingly she will have the same EU Treaty Rights as you, subject to you exercising your Treaty Rights. You tell us that you are employed in Italy, so that is fine.

Marriage of convenience? I can't really add to what Vinny has already posted ... and the two of you have a child .... which I think is rather good proof that it is not a marriage of convenience! :wink:

You also mention the Surinder Singh route, and yes, given you are British, your wife could indeed make an application for an EEA Family Permit, using form VAF5.

You also mention that your son is British. Have you already made an application for his British passport? Have you got an indication how long it will take to get that passport for him?
John

evangelista
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Post by evangelista » Fri Jan 16, 2009 12:03 am

Thanks for your reply, I will be starting the process of his passport at the end of the month as he was only born a few weeks ago. Don't know how long it will take though. Just a bit worried coz i've heard and read so much negative feedback in regards to applying for the eea family permit. It seems refusal is very common.
After we get married, what do you think is a good amount of time before applying for the permit?

John
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Post by John » Fri Jan 16, 2009 9:04 am

It seems refusal is very common.
I don't think there is any evidence to support that. Yes some applications are refused, it would be wrong to say otherwise, but the great majority are granted.
After we get married, what do you think is a good amount of time before applying for the permit?
As soon as the marriage has happened your wife (as she will be) is a "family member" of an EEA Citizen ... you! I would say, make the application as soon as you have the marriage certificate, and in addition, if that is not in English, a translation of that marriage certificate into English. With the application supply both the original in Italian and also the trasnlation into English.
I will be starting the process of his passport at the end of the month
I just think you might find that your wife will have the EEA Family Permit in her passport before your son has his British Passport. Why are you waiting until the end of the month to start the process of getting him that passport?
John

ciaramc
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Post by ciaramc » Fri Jan 16, 2009 9:34 am

Evangelista- I live it Italy and I'm an Irish citizen exercising my treaty rights in Italy since 2002. I got married to my Husband a non-EU national who was illegal in Italy before we married, anyway we got married in 2006 and we are still waiting for his permit of stay!!! We got refused by the Questura.....then we appealed, the judge could not reach a decision, so decided are claim was inadmissable....as with had not called the Minister of the Interior....yes that is what the judge actually wrote on the refusal....we are now appealing I have also complained to the EU Commission and I'm waiting to hear about our case! Ihad complaineed to SOLVIT but they could not help as it had already gone to court.

I'm sure you know that in Italy it is quite difficult for "stranieri" to do anything! I know that a friend of mine (UK Citizen) was not issued with a FP for her non-EU husband who had had a permesso for years and was in the process of renewing it!!! They had been married 3/4 years and had a 1 year old!! In the end she had to wait until he got his new permesso!!

I hope you also know that to apply for a permesso, you can do it directly in the Questura because your wie will be a family member of a EU citizen ! DON'T apply through the POST as non-EU people have to do!!! It prolongs the process! But in saying that it will take you months to get your wife's permesso (I know from experience). As for the FP search the forum for posts by Richard 66 who is also a british citizen living in Italy tryin to apply fo a family permit for his wife, who has a permesso!

I had thought that whenyour wife got her PDS per gravidanza, it strictly states that she must leave when it is up? And is it still possible to get married when you are not legally resident/valid visa, as I had thought the law had changed???

I think you should contact SOLVIT if you have any problems.....before they refuse you and your wife!

Any questions don't hesitate to ask.

John
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Post by John » Fri Jan 16, 2009 10:39 am

Do appreciate that the ground rules here changed considerably last summer with the announcement in the Metock case by the ECJ.

For the Judgement ..... click here.
John

ciaramc
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Post by ciaramc » Fri Jan 16, 2009 11:04 am

Thanks for that John ....but I know about this case and judgement and so did the judge when we appealed.....I sent a copy in both English and Italian....it did not change anything......and it was not last summer the judge reched her decision of inadmissable in November well after the Metlock judgement!

I know for a fact of several couples with similar problems to mine....the Italians don't recognise the Directive yes it was implemented but it as still not been put into action.....because when you go to the Questura, they have never heard of it!!! The police in the Questura actually told me that did I not understand that I was in Italy and that Italian laws apply to me???

I have followed the Metlock case for a long time! I waited with baited breath for the judgement! As I thought it would make our case so much stronger....but how wrong was I ....we are still waiting....for a date for the appeal.......it has been 3 years!!

John
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Post by John » Fri Jan 16, 2009 11:27 am

ciaramc wrote:.I sent a copy in both English and Italian....it did not change anything
What was it you were appealing against? Wasn't that an application under UK immigration law? If so the Metock judgement is irrelevant.
John

ciaramc
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Post by ciaramc » Fri Jan 16, 2009 11:38 am

Sorry John,

Maybe we have mixed up the posts here. I'm talking about Italy I live in Italy applied for a RC for my Husband in Italy where I have been exercising my treaty rights! I appealed against the refusal to issue my husband with a residence card! Technically my husband is living in Italy with me but can not work travel etc....

We are going off topic here! So some more advise about getting the permesso for your wie - have a look at this website www.tuttostranieri.it
it is quite similar to this site but Italian they also speak english though!

Any way good luck any questions don't hesitate to ask!

John
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Post by John » Fri Jan 16, 2009 11:48 am

Ah right, but she is not your "family" member, or even your "extended family member". You posted "Came over to Italy late 2007 and started working here.", and that is not enough time to establish a "durable relationship".

The marriage will make all the difference! From the moment of marriage she will instantly acquire Treaty Rights.
John

ciaramc
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Post by ciaramc » Fri Jan 16, 2009 12:03 pm

That's what I was saying in theory his partner would acquire Treaty rights......but in real life Italy does not seem to follow this rule!! My husband and I got married in early 2006 and as yet he has not recieved any RC nor has he been allowed to work.......3 years later!

John
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Post by John » Fri Jan 16, 2009 5:26 pm

Suggest you contact SOLVIT.
John

ciaramc
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Post by ciaramc » Fri Jan 16, 2009 5:34 pm

John I contacted SOLVIT years ago....they don't help.... the case has already gone infront of a judge......so they can't do anything but the EU can I sent an offical complaint...they are investigating my case I got a reply from a lawyer !!!!

Anyway back to the OP's questions ....I think it's going to be difficult for them to get there FP without a visa....and I think they are going to be waiting months for there permesso!

John
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Post by John » Fri Jan 16, 2009 5:48 pm

SOLVIT are worth approaching again. They seem to have got their act together in recent years.

But soon Italy will be behind you. After the marriage your wife will apply for the EEA Family Permit, not from the Italian Government but from the UK one, and after your son has his British passport, you will all move to the UK.
John

isceon
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Post by isceon » Sat Jan 17, 2009 12:19 pm

The uk has not complied yet with Metlock judgement :previous lawfull residence in EEA state.
They would have to answer 17 pages of interrogation (unlawfull) and Their FP would still be refused on that ground.
The uk does not care about EU directives and implement only what it suits them.That is my vue only of course.I would love to be wrong.

John
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Post by John » Sat Jan 17, 2009 2:11 pm

The uk has not complied yet with Metlock judgement :previous lawfull residence in EEA state.
Yes it has, well it has in the sense that its newly-revised guidance to its staff dealing with EEA Family Permit applications are fully compliant .... click here.

But it remains a shame that the VAF5 application form, and the accompanying guidance notes, have not yet been updated. Hopefully soon.
John

isceon
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Post by isceon » Sat Jan 17, 2009 9:37 pm

John wrote:
The uk has not complied yet with Metlock judgement :previous lawfull residence in EEA state.
Yes it has, well it has in the sense that its newly-revised guidance to its staff dealing with EEA Family Permit applications are fully compliant .... click here.

But it remains a shame that the VAF5 application form, and the accompanying guidance notes, have not yet been updated. Hopefully soon.
Thanks John but "the lawfull residence requirement" is still under review from the link you kindly provided.
Again the application form and the guidance for the FP is really shamefull !!
I can t wait to see some reactions from the EU in the first half of 2009.

John
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Post by John » Sat Jan 17, 2009 10:07 pm

"the lawfull residence requirement" is still under review from the link you kindly provided.
UKBA may say that, but the ECJ has made a ruling! The matter is therefore not still under review, whatever UKBA say.
John

flyboy
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Post by flyboy » Sat Jan 17, 2009 11:58 pm

No previous lawful residence is mentioned on the following link which has been updated on the 12th January 2009, however VAF 5 application form and guidance notes have not been updated.

http://www.ukvisas.gov.uk/en/howtoapply ... ionals#Q18

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