settlement visa refused

i am an indian citizen applied for a settlement visa at delhi high commision on 02/08/2005 and was refused for entry clearance on 03/08/2005 and the reasons for being was as follows:

REFUSAL OF ENTRY CLEARANCE

However, I am not satisfied, on the balance of probabilities, that you meet the requirement of paragraph 281 of the immigration rules, in particular:

BECAUSE

Your have produced as evidence of your sponsor's employment wage slips that purportedly cover a period of some months. Whilst it could be reasonable to accept them as evidence of genuine employment, they are of a type readily produced on a word processor or data obtainable from a stationer in the united kingdom, and in a condition that does not reflect their age. In the context of my other doubts as to your claimed employment, they are not persusaive. Because I am not satisfied that your sponsor is employed as claimed, it follows that i am not satisfied, on the balance of probabilities, that you can and will be maintained adequately without recourse to public funds.

You have not produced any bank statements, which would show deposits to confirm your sponsor's income. Your sponsor has not provided a p60 or any reliable evidence of her national insurance contributions, nor any indication that the claimed employment is registered with the local Inland Revenue Office.

In all the circumstances and having assessed all the evidence which has been produced, I am not satisfied that your sponsor is employed as claimed, or hence that you will be able to maintain yourselves and any dependants adequately without recourse to public funds.

by taking above said reasons under consideration i lodged my appeal to AIT on 25/08/2005 with the following supporting documents:-

1. orignal wage slips ( because i submitted the photostat copies of these in my primary application)

2. revised employer's letter stating its employer payee no. and stating its inland revenue offices to confirm that every tax and insurance deduction has been made according to UK tables.

3. recent p45 and old p45 from the last employer in the last year i.e 2004

4. additional sponsorship declaration from father in law who is a retired person and have a saving of 4500 pounds sterling.

5. another additional sponsorship declaration from my brother in law who is working as police constable in westmidlands constabulary and have an income in excess of 24000 pounds sterling.

6. bank letter from coventry building society in the name of my sponser stating balance till 24/08/05 which is arround 2500 pounds. in addition to this bank has attested the photocopy of bank book of my sponser for the transactions in the last six months.

7. as my sponser claimed JSA for approx. 2 months which started on 22/02/2005 and my sponser started a job on 17/04/2005 and job centre continued to pay her till 10/02/2005 as my sponsor notified the authorities several times but she has been continued paid so she got a letter from sheriff court jobcentre stating the time period of benefit claimed and statement about the settlement of benefit overpaid and paid back.

8. in relation to me i am a marketing professional in India and i am working as business manager in a private company from the last one and a half year and my qualification is 1. bachelors in commerce ( B.Com ) 2. master of business administration (MBA ) and in addition i did few courses in computers. i have provided evidence relating to my qualification in my primary application.

with the above factors my query is:-

is it the sufficient proof of my sponser's financial soundness and our ability to maintain ourselves without recourse to public funds i.e is it impressive to overturn the imiigration decision made by the ECO on 03.08.2005 ?

another query of mine is:
as less transparency of working of AIT i am not able to understand or estimate the time period it is going to take to process my immigration appeal. i rang AIT customer care so many times to enquire about my appeal status but till the date they are giving same answer that it is not yet processed on their database so iam confused if it is taking this much time i.e more than a month only to get registered with them how long it will take for determination i.e what is the aprrox. processing time for immigration appeals ?

as my wife visited me in the month of august and she is pregnant now and her GP has said to her that this stress is effecting her health badly so is it posible to tell the AIT regarding this as i lodged my appeal before we came to know about her pregnancy and is it going to make any effect on the AIT procedures ?

Baz2, having read what you have written I think as follows. I think you should drop any thought of an appeal against the refusal last August. That appeal, even if it were to succeed, would take a long time to resolve.

Instead you should submit a new application and this time ensure that ALL the needed evidence is submitted. Because let's face it, last time you did not exactly go out of your way to get approval for your application, did you!

Look at it this way, the ECO has a job to do, to see if the tests imposed by the Immigration Rules have been met. So as regards the financial test .... you failed miserably. For example, why no bank statements?

The evidence you list? Will that be sufficient? Well, at the very least, there is a far greater chance that the financial test will be passed. Such a great shame that the previous application was so ill-prepared.

As regards :-

Whilst it could be reasonable to accept them as evidence of genuine employment, they are of a type readily produced on a word processor or data obtainable from a stationer in the united kingdom

-: well maybe they actually were! But of course no corroboration showing that the evidence was genuine. Hence the suspicion that they were fake.

Baz,

I agree with John.

Just re-submit application with the required supporting evidence.

My worry is that the originals are with AIT. dont forget that for EC appeals, it will be based on the information originally submitted at EC- so the decuision by the ECO may be held as valid

thanks moderators for your valuable advices.

current situation of mine is..
got my appeal registered at their system on 21 nov. and got a hearing date in 2nd week of january and i provided the medical evidence of my wife's pregnancy and her ill health AIT has speeded up my appeal (as they say) and as i have consulted some solicitors in uk and they told me as the AIT will come to know the exact situation of you and your wife they will give it a compasionate level.

i do agree law is law but as i talked to eco on phone he told me just submit the documents which were lacking with my appeal and he will reconsider the case locally but as you told me it has created some doubt in my mind that i will loose my appeal.

i do agree with you that i dint pay that attention to my primary application's preparation thats why i am sufferring but i know as i am a geniune applicant and i expect british not to turn me down.

another question of mine is ...
is really medical evidence and GP references make any effect on appeal proceedings?..

is there any provision regarding speeding up of immigration appeals in law?[/url]

another question of mine is ...
is really medical evidence and GP references make any effect on appeal proceedings?..

Given that the medical evidence is that your wife is pregnant, I would say that is rather good, what is commonly known as .... evidence of contact! I don't think you were failed on that point, but no harm in including it anyway.

is there any provision regarding speeding up of immigration appeals in law?

Looks like that has already happened. I don't think you will get it speeded up any more.

i do agree with you that i dint pay that attention to my primary application's preparation thats why i am sufferring but i know as i am a geniune applicant and i expect british not to turn me down.

It is not a question of you just being genuine ... it is a question of showing that the tests in the Immigration Rules have been passed. Hopefully it will all work out fine in due course.

hi john....

wel let me tell you what happened next just got a letter from AIT stating that the hearing date should be read as 12-04-2006 instead of 12-01-2006...isnt it strange????? wel another setback.....i thought my appeal has been speeded up as i told u in previous post....wel its not...

as i talked to my solicitor in uk and talked about this he said it is unexpected never happened before....wel dont know what he tried to say...talked about further proceedings....he said he will request home office and uk visas to review the primary decision i.e he will send the papers about our current financial position and proof regarding my wife's pregnancy as a compasionate circumstance...but i doubt it will happen that home office or eco will review the case with the new evidence provided to him.

now u can think how a person can be...first marriage first kid....wife cant travel back coz of riskful pregnancy.....got no mother to support her or ayone to help during this....i have provided every posible proof regarding this but stil it dint make any effect on AIT...dont know whats going on...

talked with solicitor about reapplying and he said appeal is half way and will conclude in 2 months and with new application they ill interview and waiting time for interview is 3 months on average and look what ait said and my wife is due in april...

is there anyway that i can be with my wife atleast 20 days before her deleivery....

will eco or home office or ukvisas review my case and consider this circumstance when my appeal is in progress ?

baz2,

1. Has your representative informed you that the AIT can only consider the ECO's decision on the basis of the evidence that was presented before him/her - your additional documentation will be disregarded as it was not present back in August.

2. Is your spouse still receiving an income - still working or maternity pay?

3. Are your relatives still able to provide financial support?

If yes to 2 and 3 and evidence can be provided of such in the last 6 months i.e. wage slips and bank statements then I suggest you re-apply for your visa. Highlight the pregnancy issue to schedule your interview earlier than 3 months timeline - I expect the ECO to be o.k with this since they already have your details on file and they are reviewing a changed set of circumstances. Also you will be saving them the hastle of preparing their paperwork for the appeal if it follows they can issue you a visa. There is no disadvantage to having a fresh application and an appeal ongoing - the AIT could for a number of reasons change the hearing date... the new application is an insurance policy against this.

Good luck.

thanks kayalami for ur valuable advice.

yes my wife is still working just to sort this problem even though she is suffering alot but her contract will finish on 24-12-2005 and she has been working since april and have savings only around 3000 pounds because she had to visit me and expenditure on contact i.e phone calls etc. and after this dont know when she will get he next contract or another job and yes my relatives still in a position to support us as my father in law is a retired person but got savings and got a house to accomodate us and my brother in law is a cop having a sound income but dont have a house and i can produce the evidence you told about in my new application.

another thing is i provided sponsership from my father in law in my primary application but it wasnt considered at that time so how it will make any effect now tell me how to explain it in new application.

is it ok if my brother in law sponsers me when he dont have a house?

and other thing is...as i will apply fresh obviously i will produce the same documents i just sent to uk visas to review my case under a comoasionate circumstance on 8-12-2005 so there will be no further change in any circumstance when i will apply fresh. so as i think if it is going to work in favour of us then it will work now otherwise it will be wastage of money. so what do you say or suggest? overal i have made my mind to reapply just to take another chance if it doesnt effect my appeal thats it whatever my lawyer says i can feel he is making money and confusing us aswel.

what do you suggest shoyuld i wait for home office/uk visas decision or i should proceed? as even it will take arround 20 days to reapply as i have to gather the documents again and some are still with the embassy.

what do you say will they review if not will they let us know what happened to our request as i talked at ukvisas in london the person said they will get back in 20 working days but i doubt because whatever i submitted before got no response yet.

well my post seems to be confusing but honestly i am depressed and dont know what i am trying to say. but thanks for atleast reading it.

hello all there....

as in my previous posts i told about my condition....applied for settlemet got refusal then lodged appeal on 30-08-2005 and till the date heard nothing accept a appeal number and a hearing date after 4+ months

as my circumstances changed which i mention below..
1. wife is pregnant now.
2. she changed her job and that will too end on 24th this month and start the onther after x-mas on 27th dec. and she is in straight employement since last 8 months.
3. as we spent alot on solicitors fee and our contact coz she is really depressed and n feel alone in her pregnancy i.e we have savings arround 2500 and got bank statements which tells even after spending a huge amount we were never below 2000.
4. i am a postgraduate mba from a 7 star uni in india and got a work experience for around 2 years and have savings approx. 150000 INR roughly equal to 1500 pounds

5. got third party sponsership my relatives to sponser me aswell i.e my father in law retired and on pension and got 4500 pounds in savings and my brother in law a police man with an annual income over 24000 pounds but got not substantial savings he spends everything.

to prove everything above and not leave any doubt in ECO's mind i am submitting following documents with my new application and please read them and tell where i stand this time.

current employer's letter,her reissued wage slips bcoz orignal ones i sent with my appeal papers and others with further communication with the ait along with her pregnancy proof. but i will mention it in my new application although they are reissued by the same employer. bank letter, bank statement for last 6 months and saving book's attested copy aswell.

just to support above said matter i am submiting a letter from inland revenue stating her employers name and she has been a regular tax payer i.e confirming her employement. letter from jobcentre confirming she is not recoursng any public fund.

offered accomodation by father in law in a house with 3 bedrooms, 2 living rooms, Spam and 2 bathrooms and if i will join them there will be 5 persons living in that house. house is free from any mortgage.

to confirm above said i am submitting a survey letter from an inspector from the council. is it ok with it?

to prove contact our mobile bill statements from last 3 years and postal transactions between us,

wedding pics, marriage certificate, honeymoon pics hotel bills snaps from various occasions we celeberated together.

sponsership letters from my father in law and brother in law with their passport copies and bank statements and employement confirmation.

regarding me i am submitting my educational certificates i.e B.com and MBA degrees photostat, my work experience with two different employers, my bank letter confirming my savings with them. and ofcourse about the job aspects in uk for me.

well i gave a fare idea of what i am including so my questions are:_
1. as i was refused last time without interviewing me will they interview this time for sure? or they will treat as fresh application? and can waive of my interview if they find paper work satifactory or they will give me an early apoinment for the reason my wife is pregnant? although waiting time is 4 weeks nw as according to BHC new delhi's website

2. does combination of sponsers work in settlement applications?

3. does my educationational qualification and my work expereince make any any effect and my savings i am gona take with me aswell?

4. as my wife is pregnant will eco look at it in compasionate manner or it hardly maters to him during this process. he may think as she is pregnant n will stop working soon coz she is due in april last week.?.

5. another thing is as i am from a well of family in india and both my parents are in admin services and our monthly income is more than 1 lakh rupees i.e 100000 and they offered me 100000 inr equals to 1100 pounds approx. will it favour my application i am attaching my parents employement evidences also and their bank statements aswel clearly showing that 100000 is just one month income for them.

in the refusal letter the maintainace was the only reason for being refused. honestly speaking i had everything before but i failed to represent myself before the eco but this time i dont want to leave any doubt in my mind as wel as in eco's mind.

so further advice is more than welcome...coz this time i am not in hurry and i will not let my heart over ride my brain.....u cant feel the feeling when you are away from your pregnant wife and when she says she cant handle things at her own....hope u all understand...

offered accommodation by father in law in a house with 3 bedrooms, 2 living rooms, Spam and 2 bathrooms and if i will join them there will be 5 persons living in that house. house is free from any mortgage.

Hi, can you clarify this please .. and sorry this sounds so complicated! Ignoring any Spam, bathroom or toilet, how many rooms in the house are over 50 square feet (4.68 square metres) in size? Also as regards those 5 people, how many adults, and how many children, and as regards the children, how old are they?

Let's just ensure that the place is not defined as overcrowded, otherwise what you propose may come to nought!

hi john thanks for the reply

all the three rooms are above 50 square feet and 5 people includes father in law, disabled mother in law, sis in law, me and my wife and all are adults this is the same house i was offered in my prior application and it went ok with same number of people living.

what do you say about other aspects i have mentioned in my post and any other suggestion is more than welcome.

well there is a kid to born does the eco will also take this into account while considering the accomodation factor?

baz2, because this keeps coming up as a subject I have just laid down a new sticky detailing how one ascertains if accommodation is overcrowded. You can look at that by clicking here.

You will see that with three counting rooms that the maximum number of people is five. But children under one year of age are not counted. Accordingly it appears to be the case that the accommodation is OK.

I shall post answers to your questions later.

thanks john for support and advice.... i went through the sticky topic you told about n ya it clarified my doubt.

i will wait for your answer.

and any other advise from anyone who went through al this quite similar or abit different. friends i am in deep trouble and need the support n advices of knowledgeful ppl so please with your advices pull me out of this trouble....

waiting
baz2

Baz2, there is a lot of advice for you here to drop the appeal and submit another visa application. With the appeal hearing scheduled for April ... well it just shows how long and drawn out the appeal process can take!

Using the numbering in your post yesterday :-

1. If the supporting evidence still shows you will fail then again they may not interview you. You need to accept that this is a bit like a hurdle race and you need to provide evidence to show that all the hurdles are cleared. If you knock even just one over then you will fail to get the visa.
2. In a sense work does not matter. What I mean by that is that it simply needs to be clear that no claim to certain Public Funds will need to be made by you. Some people are lucky enough to be able to show that without working at all.
3. Your educational background might help if it shows that you have clear earning capacity in the UK.
4. Not sure about that at all.
5. If you are asking .... "if my parents give me some money and therefore I have more savings, will that help?" Well yes it can only help you to pass the financial test.

Hope this helps. If I have missed anything then don't hesitate to say.