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Application for Naturalisation of Irish Born Minor

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PIKKA
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Application for Naturalisation of Irish Born Minor

Post by PIKKA » Tue Jun 28, 2011 5:32 pm

I need some suggestions about the Application for Naturalisation of a Minor Born in Ireland, has Irish Birth Certificate but not Irish because at the time of her birth her parents didn't have three years reckonable residence stamps for Irish Passport. Now one of her parents has Irish Citizenship should they apply through Form 8A or Form 9. The child is 3 years old if they go through Form 8A route they have to wait 2 more years. Can they apply through Form 9.
PIKKA

ImmigrationLawyer
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Post by ImmigrationLawyer » Wed Jun 29, 2011 8:21 am

the policy of the Dept (up until recently anyway) is to refuse these such applications. But you can try it. The new Citizenship part of the INIS website is very clear on the procedures, good luck.

sideshowsue
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Post by sideshowsue » Wed Jun 29, 2011 11:34 am

Just to clarify: Currently one of the child's parents has become a naturalized Irish citizen?

If yes, just fill in this form: http://www.inis.gov.ie/en/INIS/Form%209 ... 02011).pdf

and include all the requested documents. I did it for my son about a year ago now and the approval was quite quick, less than 6 months if I recall correctly.

Edited to add: I don't know what's up with the link--just copy and paste it into your browser to get it to work.

ImmigrationLawyer
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Post by ImmigrationLawyer » Wed Jun 29, 2011 11:57 am

Oh sorry I misread the post, yes if one parent has been naturalised then form 9. what is the story with Form 8A? I have no idea in what circumstances such an application would be granted - does anyone know?

PIKKA
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Post by PIKKA » Wed Jun 29, 2011 9:22 pm

ImmigrationLawyer wrote:what is the story with Form 8A? I have no idea in what circumstances such an application would be granted - does anyone know?
Form 8A is for Children born in Ireland after 31st Dec. 2005, they have Irish Birth Certificate but they cannot apply of Irish Passports because their parents didn't have 3 years reckonable residence Stamps on their passports.

sideshowsue wrote:Just to clarify: Currently one of the child's parents has become a naturalized Irish citizen?

If yes, just fill in this form
and include all the requested documents. I did it for my son about a year ago now and the approval was quite quick, less than 6 months if I recall correct.
The confusion is:
-Child has an Irish birth Certificate, can she still apply through Form 9(Form 9 is for Naturalized Parents)
-If she applies through Form 8A then she has to wait 2 more years.(Form 8A is for minor Born in Ireland. Child has to be 5 years old with Irish Birth Certificate)

Would there be any difference in CONs if they apply through Form 9 or Form 8A?
PIKKA

jhbmike
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Post by jhbmike » Thu Jun 30, 2011 7:36 am

form 9. Fairly straightforward application. No checks. Even in the old days with the backlogs and everything, it was processed within 6 months. Nowadays it might even be quicker.

IQU
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Post by IQU » Thu Jun 30, 2011 9:01 am

you will get approval within 4-6 months.no check requirement

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Post by ImmigrationLawyer » Thu Jun 30, 2011 9:07 am

The Irish Birth Cert is not really relevent - if the child is applying for naturalisation then they didn't have an entitlement to Irish citizenship by birth, so doesn;t matter where they were born. I just can't see under what circumstances that Form 8A could get the child naturalisation. That really is a mystery to me. Where's the entitlement?

sideshowsue
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Post by sideshowsue » Thu Jun 30, 2011 10:07 am

I agree with Immigration Lawyer. The fact that the child has an Irish Birth Cert is not relevant in this instance. You will, of course, be required to submit it with the application, but the child is benefiting from a speedy naturalization following the naturalization of a parent.

Clearly the purpose of naturalizing the children of naturalized Irish citizens is to prevent families from being broken up once a minor dependent reaches 18.

Bottom line: Since the child is now 3 years old and has fulfilled the main requirements to be naturalized, i.e. (a) 3 years of residence in Ireland and (b) a naturalized Irish parent, simply complete Form 9, include all the relevant documents and information, pop it in the post, and wait about 6 months. Easy peasy.

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Post by ImmigrationLawyer » Thu Jun 30, 2011 10:38 am

Yes, I understand the procedure for applying for a child of a naturalised citizen, but did you look at the form 8A - this seems to allow a a concurrent app for a child with a parent making a standard adult application for naturalisation, based on 5 years residency. Or the child can apply independently (eg if the parent is refused, or before the parent is granted naturalisation) if the child had 5 years residency as the minor child of an adult with a reckonable stamp. Sorry, I'm not explaining this well but look at the form and explanatory note and you'll see what I mean.
It does make sense - why should a child be penalised, not be able to be naturalised because of the "sins of the father" (or mother) if their app refused for lack of character. I'm hoping this constiututes an extension of the previous naturalisation rights for minor children.
However - isn't it a bit weird that the form requires references for a minor child? A young child's character can't be called into question.

9jeirean
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Post by 9jeirean » Thu Jun 30, 2011 11:41 am

ImmigrationLawyer wrote:The Irish Birth Cert is not really relevent - if the child is applying for naturalisation then they didn't have an entitlement to Irish citizenship by birth, so doesn;t matter where they were born. I just can't see under what circumstances that Form 8A could get the child naturalisation. That really is a mystery to me. Where's the entitlement?
This is definitely a new one. Still trying to make a sense of it though. I think this may be for people whose children were not entitled to Irish citizen at birth and for which the parent(s) have opted not to become Irish citizen i.e. naturalize but want their children to have Irish citizenship. I know, it sound complicated right? :)

In other words "parents of Irish born children who were not entitled to Irish citizenship at birth can apply for such children to become Irish citizens, provided they and the child had lived in Ireland for 5 years after the birth of the child. The parents themselves don't have to be Irish at the time of application".

This is my understanding of it anyway. I may be wrong though. As usual INIS doesn't seem to be doing a good job at explaining this, and to differentiate it from Form 9 on their so called guidance note.


If my interpretation is correct, then I can see the benefit of this as not everyone will be obliged or want to become Irish citizens. Such people may however want their children to become Irish citizens hence this provision is a sensible one in my opinion.


9jeirean
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Post by ImmigrationLawyer » Thu Jun 30, 2011 11:50 am

Yes - I think the Minister in his wisdom and fairness (maybe?) or one of his advisors noticed a basic injustice that a minor child may be deprived of the opportunity to naturalise (having been born and having spent 5 - or potentially many more years legally in the State - just because the parent was either refused, or did not want to apply. some people don';t want to take Irish citizenship as their national passport will be taken off them then - many countries don't allow dual citizenship.

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Post by blue bird » Mon Jul 04, 2011 5:54 pm

Hello guys, Today i submited by email form 8A to Irish Nationality & Citizenship, i received a knowledge stated that A printed copy
will be posted to you within 2 working days for completion of the Statutory
declaration. Honestly i couldn't understand the wisdom of this step!! any body for interpretation, Thanks indeed.

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Post by ImmigrationLawyer » Mon Jul 04, 2011 6:03 pm

I think this is so you can sign it and also get the three references to sign it.

PIKKA
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Post by PIKKA » Mon Jul 04, 2011 6:11 pm

blue bird wrote:Hello guys, Today i submited by email form 8A to Irish Nationality & Citizenship, i received a knowledge stated that A printed copy
will be posted to you within 2 working days for completion of the Statutory
declaration. Honestly i couldn't understand the wisdom of this step!! any body for interpretation, Thanks indeed.
May be they are trying to be more environment friendly by reducing the use of paper.
PIKKA

blue bird
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Post by blue bird » Mon Jul 04, 2011 7:45 pm

PIKKA wrote:
blue bird wrote:Hello guys, Today i submited by email form 8A to Irish Nationality & Citizenship, i received a knowledge stated that A printed copy
will be posted to you within 2 working days for completion of the Statutory
declaration. Honestly i couldn't understand the wisdom of this step!! any body for interpretation, Thanks indeed.
May be they are trying to be more environment friendly by reducing the use of paper.
That's interesting!!

PIKKA
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Post by PIKKA » Mon Jul 04, 2011 8:17 pm

blue bird wrote:
PIKKA wrote:
blue bird wrote:Hello guys, Today i submited by email form 8A to Irish Nationality & Citizenship, i received a knowledge stated that A printed copy
will be posted to you within 2 working days for completion of the Statutory
declaration. Honestly i couldn't understand the wisdom of this step!! any body for interpretation, Thanks indeed.
May be they are trying to be more environment friendly by reducing the use of paper.
That's interesting!!
There is another point that they can return an incomplete form or point out a mistake promptly online otherwise they have to send all the documents back and that is a waste of time.
PIKKA

blue bird
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Post by blue bird » Tue Jul 05, 2011 3:06 pm

Any idea of the time taken for the decision regardng form 8A, citizenship for Irish born child, and is that effected by their parents if they don't have Irish citizenship? Regards

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Post by ImmigrationLawyer » Tue Jul 05, 2011 3:16 pm

no one knows, it's a brand new application procedure.

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