Business Plan - YES or NO?

I know that there is NO requirement as per the guidance to submit a business plan along with your application for Tier 1 (Entrepreneur) Visa. However, everyone on this forum has suggested otherwise to improve the chances of approval. I would like to know answers for 2 specific situations as below:

• 1. Did anyone get the visa approved WITHOUT submitting a business plan?
  
  2. Did anyone get a refusal ONLY because they didn't submit a business plan and strictly NO other reason listed?

If your answer is "YES" to any of the above questions, please share your experience here. If you have any other reasons for refusal, then please refrain from responding to this post. I want to keep this thread clear for the importance of business plan only. Thanks for understanding.

Regards.

attahaas wrote:I know that there is NO requirement as per the guidance to submit a business plan along with your application for Tier 1 (Entrepreneur) Visa. However, everyone on this forum has suggested otherwise to improve the chances of approval. I would like to know answers for 2 specific situations as below:

• 1. Did anyone get the visa approved WITHOUT submitting a business plan?
  
  2. Did anyone get a refusal ONLY because they didn't submit a business plan and strictly NO other reason listed?

If your answer is "YES" to any of the above questions, please share your experience here. If you have any other reasons for refusal, then please refrain from responding to this post. I want to keep this thread clear for the importance of business plan only. Thanks for understanding.

Regards.

Hello attahaas,

Yes some applications been approved without business plan, I Can not give you any particular reference but there were some in this forum back in 2013. BUT in theory a start up business need a good business plan, this is how Case worker judge that how focus you are for your business etc. I always prefer to attach a business plan though its not compulsory but It works positive for your case. Hope this is the answer of your question.


Regards

attahaas wrote:I know that there is NO requirement as per the guidance to submit a business plan along with your application for Tier 1 (Entrepreneur) Visa. However, everyone on this forum has suggested otherwise to improve the chances of approval. I would like to know answers for 2 specific situations as below:

• 1. Did anyone get the visa approved WITHOUT submitting a business plan?
  
  2. Did anyone get a refusal ONLY because they didn't submit a business plan and strictly NO other reason listed?

If your answer is "YES" to any of the above questions, please share your experience here. If you have any other reasons for refusal, then please refrain from responding to this post. I want to keep this thread clear for the importance of business plan only. Thanks for understanding.

Regards.

I am no expert but how you expect to clear genuine entrepreneur test without submitting a Business Plan.

MTZ510 wrote:I am no expert but how you expect to clear genuine entrepreneur test without submitting a Business Plan.

I expect the same way others who made it through without a business plan.

And, FYI, there is NO reference to a business plan in the policy guidance under the heading "Genuine Entrepreneur Test" on page 9 of 59. In fact, there is no reference to the phrase "Business Plan" in the entire document of the policy guidance.

That's the reason why I specifically asked the above two particular questions. I know from the forum 2 individuals who didn't submit a business plan and still got the visa.

It's just that a lot of PSW applicants applying inside the UK have misused and abused this visa process, the UKBA tries to be strict with a business plan, but I am yet to see any rejections based on my question 2 above.

Hope that clarifies.

It's common sense if you are doing a business then you need a plan. Don't blame others for that.
Just make sure that your business is trading properly. Business plan is a secondary thing.
Hope you will get your visa.

cpmlkhan wrote:
Hello attahaas,

Yes some applications been approved without business plan, I Can not give you any particular reference but there were some in this forum back in 2013. BUT in theory a start up business need a good business plan, this is how Case worker judge that how focus you are for your business etc. I always prefer to attach a business plan though its not compulsory but It works positive for your case. Hope this is the answer of your question.


Regards

Hi cpmlkhan,

I do understand your perspective, but at the same time as I explained in the above post it's the misuse and abuse this visa process by the PSW applicants in the recent years, that has tightened the noose around providing a business plan. I already clearly know what you said, so NO your response doesn't answer my 2 questions.

In the past few months I have read each and every post on this forum and whenever there is a mention of business plan in the refusal letter, I have only seen that it doesn't sound genuine or it doesn't match with the market research or the applicant was not thorough with his/her own business plan during interview. And the refusal is always associated with other stronger reasons than the BP. It seems the case workers like to throw in the BP reason to strengthen their case when there are other compelling reasons for rejection. This shows that a BP is more detrimental in cases where provided than where not provided.

Again for PSW applicants it MIGHT be helpful because one should have established a business already to apply for the visa. More so, starting July this year, it is even more important because you can't use your own funds and need to get the money for a VC and a Govt. Seed Funding Agency, both of which will not be convinced without a business plan. I am happy that the UKBA took this step, because not everyone with access to 50K and a "business plan" is a GENUINE Entrepreneur. We will see in the coming years how many of those hundreds or may be thousands of PSW Entrepreneurs will get an extension.

Here is the link to the Tier 1 Entrepreneur Visa Guidance Extension, where there is a mention of a business plan in a couple of instances on page 20 and 25 of 125.

Page 20 of 125

Interview

• the viability and credibility of the applicant’s business plan

Page 25 of 125

EO consideration: credibility of the applicant and their funds

• A business plan and any market research (if the business is in its infancy) to assess how much consideration the applicant has put into starting up, these can be purchased as a package, so plans that appear general may not be useful.

The first point refers to the interview where they will asses the credibility of a submitted plan. And the second one shows that a plan may be required in case where the business is in it's infancy. They even say the associated list "may not apply to every application"

Both the above points further corroborate my convictions around submitting a business plan and it's detrimental effect on the application. Especially if you are applying through the 200K route from outside the UK.

This is why I particularly asked those two questions. And my 2nd question is very important. I am yet to hear from the applicants an answer for it.

Momi wrote:It's common sense if you are doing a business then you need a plan. Don't blame others for that.
Just make sure that your business is trading properly. Business plan is a secondary thing.
Hope you will get your visa.

Momi, hold your horses buddy. No one is blaming anyone here without due consideration. I am just going by what is already presented out there in news and by even some on this forum. And you can see a few visa curtailments and arrests because the so-called "Entrepreneurs" have misused/abused their visas. Whenever this happens, the UKBA tightens the noose around the guidance rules and we have all witnessed this in the very recent past.

It's common sense to have a plan to do any business, but it is also common sense to know it doesn't require you to draft a BP down when you don't really NEED it. Go out on to the streets and ask businessmen out there how many of them have a business plan DRAFTED.

Again, please let me know if you know anyone who have an answer to the 2 questions I have posted. And thanks for your hope about my getting the visa.

Who is telling you all these news. I haven't seen them. Post the link please. There were couple of arrest because people were working on NI number. But they released on bail later.

Now let's come to your question.
After 11th July you need to present your case properly. If you registered your company on 11 July or later then don't apply.
There were few people who got visa without business plan but it happened in early 2013.
One of my friend got visa without business plan but he spent almost 1500-1800£ on advertisements only.
I personally spend 500£ on the time of application and still I'm advertising on new papers and google.
My advise is that you must write a business plan which you can explain in interview.
Best of luck.

Momi wrote:Who is telling you all these news. I haven't seen them. Post the link please. There were couple of arrest because people were working on NI number. But they released on bail later.

Now let's come to your question.
After 11th July you need to present your case properly. If you registered your company on 11 July or later then don't apply.
There were few people who got visa without business plan but it happened in early 2013.
One of my friend got visa without business plan but he spent almost 1500-1800£ on advertisements only.
I personally spend 500£ on the time of application and still I'm advertising on new papers and google.
My advise is that you must write a business plan which you can explain in interview.
Best of luck.

Here are few links that explain why the rules have been tightened to curb abuse or misuse:

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/chan ... visa-abuse

http://www.smithstonewalters.com/2014/0 ... -category/

https://www.gov.uk/government/speeches/ ... n-rules--8

http://immigrationmatters.co.uk/tier-1- ... abuse.html

http://immigrationmatters.co.uk/filipin ... -scam.html

Getting out on bail doesn't prove anything. And it is abuse to work as an employee while on Entrepreneur visa.

Your statements in the above post are outright wrong! First, you DON'T NEED a business plan after 11th of July, 2014. Show me where it says you need in the latest guidance. Second, you don't have to have registered your business prior to 11th of July, you ONLY NEED to have had ENGAGED in a business activity prior to 11th of July. There is a stark difference between the two. Search the forum, this topic is already covered.

The case worker is least bothered about how much you spent on advertisements. Every one would submit similar evidence to show that they have advertised properly. Again how much you shelled out on ads in irrelevant for the application.

Anyhow, I am not here to argue whether it is important or not, neither am I here to know any "opinions". I just want to know the answers to my original 2 questions, so that I can get a perspective statistically and nothing more!

By the way, I am preparing to apply outside the UK through the 200K route.

Opppps. Sorry but whatever I said doesn't apply on you because I thought that you are on psw.
There is no where mentioned about arrests and curtailment in links which you posted.
Anyway I'm not gonna reply on this thread anymore but Rules are still same for overseas applications.
Thanks

Write a Business Plan.

I got my visa a couple of months ago, and before applying, I also wondered if it was necessary- after all, the Policy Guidance never mentioned it.

However, the new regulations allow the case worker to apply a 'Genuine Entrepreneur Test'- without specifying what that entails. This gives them discretion. As bureaucrats, they like to follow patterns, and they have interpreted this as meaning they can use your business plan as a basis for assessing if you are a 'genuine entrepreneur'- after all, what kind of genuine entrepreneur has no business plan?

And yes, there have been people here who got rejected for not having a business plan. there were also people who got rejected because their business plan was not considered realistic or well-researched, or was plagiarised.

So don't overthink it- 'these guys don;t want to give you a visa, so don;t give them an excuse. The best advice I received is, it is better to submit too many documents than too few. Nobody can refuse you for submitting too many documents- butt hey can refuse you for submitting too few.'

Betetr to spend 3 days writing a business plan, than spend 3 months pursuing an appeal. Don't be penny wise, pound foolish. But remember the plan will be used to judge you, so:
1. Don;t plagiarise. Coy and pasting another business plan will get you into trouble.
2. Make sure it is well-reaearshed. Cite market research reports. Make sure all the numbers make sense and are realistic.
3. make sure the numbers align with the Policy Guidance. For example, if you're applýing for the 200k route, the plan should show you investing 200k. Also remember you should employ 2 people, and pay yourself a realistic salary.'

Better safe than sorry. Write the plan. Good luck.

@Etrigan

I don't think you have read my post and responses in this thread clearly or understood it, otherwise you wouldn't be stating the obvious. Also, if you read (I wouldn't expect you to) any of my earlier posts you would realise you are preaching to the choir.

Your response is totally irrelevant to my query. It may applicable to someone who is looking for advice on precautions to write a business plan and I didn't ask for one. So, thanks but no thanks for your response.

And, congrats on your visa.

THE ATTAHAAS SHOW. Let us know how you get on with your application. I guess a couple of us will learn from it esp on the merits and de-merit of applying with a business plan post-july 11. Good luck mate

attahaas wrote:@Etrigan

I don't think you have read my post and responses in this thread clearly or understood it, otherwise you wouldn't be stating the obvious. Also, if you read (I wouldn't expect you to) any of my earlier posts you would realise you are preaching to the choir.

Your response is totally irrelevant to my query. It may applicable to someone who is looking for advice on precautions to write a business plan and I didn't ask for one. So, thanks but no thanks for your response.

And, congrats on your visa.

You are an extremely rude and obnoxious person. If I knew this about you, I wouldn't have wasted my time on trying tó be helpful. 'Good luck with your life- with your attitude, you will need it.

I'm agreed with you Etrigan.
I haven't seen a rude person like him in this forum.
I won't reply in his threads from today.

lilboots wrote:THE ATTAHAAS SHOW. Let us know how you get on with your application. I guess a couple of us will learn from it esp on the merits and de-merit of applying with a business plan post-july 11. Good luck mate

You are welcome to the show lilboots. And thanks.

(I guess you wanted to write "applying without a business plan"...)

I don't think the "post-11th of July" scenario applies to me because I am not switching from PSW to Ent. There is not much change in the rules for 200K route in July though. And whatever the updates were don't really change anything for the 200K applicants post 11th of July.

However, I am still contemplating whether to go with or without a business plan, and hence this thread to see the statistics from applicants who went ahead without a business plan already. Again, I am not arguing the importance of a business plan, so I don't want to hear about it.

I will post my experience on this forum.

@Etrigan, @Momi,

I am but sorry that you guys don't have the ability to understand simple English in my original post and the subsequent responses.

I asked for something very specific and you went on touting inconsequentially trying to educate me how much you know about the value of a business plan, when I clearly said in a response (I realise I should have done it in the OP) above I am not looking for opinions nor am I to argue the importance of it but just answers to my original 2 questions. Is that so hard to comprehend?

I've been in business for many, many years and I wouldn't dream of approaching anyone without a proper business plan, it's just common sense.

Anything else is just amateurish....

Wanderer wrote:I've been in business for many, many years and I wouldn't dream of approaching anyone without a proper business plan, it's just common sense.

Anything else is just amateurish....

Wanderer, thanks for your response, but that's not what I am looking for. I clearly said in my posts that I know the importance of a business plan. I am not sure what's making everyone go haywire about the post. Everyone is jumping on the same senseless bandwagon.

I myself am in Import-Export, International Sourcing and Foundry Business for over 4 years now. So, I know the importance of a business plan for carrying out a business. But, what I am looking for here is mere numbers, purely with respect to the application process not about the business process itself.

It is common sense that a business plan or the business itself can change any minute and hence the UKBA in all its wisdom has NOT made it a REQUIREMENT for the application process. They evidently know it would be so childish to do it otherwise.

I am actually looking for a quantitative perspective to see if there were any cases successful applying without a business plan and rejections ONLY based on not supplying one. I am not looking for any qualitative perspective which everyone is trying to give without understanding my original intention. Only an immature individual would try to do so.

@ Everyone looking at this thread:
I am not questioning the importance of a business plan, so don't lecture me on that!!!! If you can respond with quantitative data please do so.